Okinawa World Tournament 2009

Posted by: Victor Smith

Okinawa World Tournament 2009 - 10/12/08 01:35 PM

I just read that Dam Smith has announced on the CyberDojo that The Okinawan Dento Karate/Kobudo Shinkokai has announced the 2009 Okinawa World Championships will be held August 13, 14 15 & 16. There will be kata competition
in karate Ryu Ha of Shorin Ryu, Goju Ryu and Uechi Ryu. No kata outside of these Ryu Ha will be scored. There will be kata competition in Kobudo as well in long and short weapons of an authentic Okinawan Ryu Ha.

The announcement appears to suggest Okinawan karate once again has chosen not to include kumite in their World Tournament.

The tournament is to be supplemented with many training sessions too.
Posted by: bo-ken

Re: Okinawa World Tournament 2009 - 10/12/08 02:16 PM

Did they only choose those 3 styles because they are the most widely practiced in Okinawa? Why would they choose so few events as well? That is greatly decrease the number of spectators. I don't know maybe making money isn't there primary concern at that type of tournament.
Posted by: Victor Smith

Re: Okinawa World Tournament 2009 - 10/12/08 07:17 PM

BoKen,

The details behind this years event haven't been published. 10 year ago they held it in Atlanta and they did include kumite. Since then they've held it in Okinawa and kumite has not been part of it.

It was discussed in the past they didn't feel there was much value in a world wide kumite event as they didn't feel Kumite was representative of Okinawan karate, just a modern tool. They're much more interested in bringing people together in friendship and training as well as allowing everyone to strut their stuff.

I belive they feel kumite is more a local group issue.

They're not doing this for spectators, and actually there is no commercial value to tournament kumite anyway. That is just for the competitors.

The intersting thing is the Okinawan Seniors defining their World Tournament in terms of what they think is important.

It is their art after all.

As to why 3 groups for kata, hard to say. For example there isn't one Shorin Ryu group that represnts Okinawa. It's been described to me that each Okinawan Shorin Dojo is unique it its own right. So it may be that this is just a general grouping of Okinawn karate (though Goju and Uehchi are very specific).

I'm sure there will be more details in the future.
Posted by: bo-ken

Re: Okinawa World Tournament 2009 - 10/13/08 06:28 PM

I knew you would have a simple answer for me. I agree with you that tournament kumite is more of a local issue.
Posted by: Uchinanchu

Re: Okinawa World Tournament 2009 - 11/10/08 12:47 AM

Another reason for doing away with kumite (they did have it several years back) was that there had been too many injuries to the competitors. At least that was the reasoning that I was given by the comitee members the first year that they did away with it.

If anyone likes, I'll post any info that comes my way.
Yoroshiku
Posted by: Ironfoot

Re: Okinawa World Tournament 2009 - 11/12/08 09:57 AM

I suppose that an Isshinryu practitioner could compete as a version of Shorin Ryu.
Posted by: reaperblack

Re: Okinawa World Tournament 2009 - 11/21/08 07:42 PM

They would have picked those three styles because everyone elses kata come from those lineages at some point or another. (with modifications of course)
As far as kumite goes, the majority of okinawan senseis (from what I am told) see it as non traditional and part of the current sport karate direction which has caused the watering down of karate.
Posted by: hedkikr

Re: Okinawa World Tournament 2009 - 11/21/08 09:39 PM

Also, kumite is a Japanese invention. Because karate has become so international, there are too many sets of rules.
Posted by: keithyates

Re: Okinawa World Tournament 2009 - 02/28/09 11:27 AM

See the editorial in the latest "Classical Fighting Arts" magazine (vol. 2, no. 15). The four leading Okinawan karate organizations have concluded that "sport" karate is not representative of the "real combat" techniques of karate. They even say that modern "competitive" kata performances are "overly dramatic and often theatrical." They will only present traditional empty-hand and weapons kata at the 2009 event in Okinawa, Japan. It is an argument that has been going on since the development of competitive sparring back in the 1920s.
Posted by: Uchinanchu

Re: Okinawa World Tournament 2009 - 03/03/09 02:12 AM

For those interested in coming to and participating in the Seikai Taiki (World Tournament), here is the link to the homepage. It has all the info and application forms that you need. Good luck! I'll see you there!
http://www-edu.pref.okinawa.jp/karate2009/index.html
Posted by: SamW

Re: Okinawa World Tournament 2009 - 03/17/09 10:48 AM

Quote:

The four leading Okinawan karate organizations have concluded that "sport" karate is not representative of the "real combat" techniques of karate. They even say that modern "competitive" kata performances are "overly dramatic and often theatrical." They will only present traditional empty-hand and weapons kata at the 2009 event in Okinawa, Japan. It is an argument that has been going on since the development of competitive sparring back in the 1920s.



On kumite- I couldn't agree more. Or as one of my new students who's been a cop for 20 years said. "The first school I trained at was heavy into tournament sparring. When I joined the force, I realized after the first few altercations that what I'd been doing had taught me how to lose on the street."

I also agree with their view on kata. The Shitei kata the WKF espouses that are from Goju are in actuality, modified Shito Ryu versions of the kata. In the process of "standardizing" them and making them look pretty, they've ripped the guts out of the kata. Many of the Shitei bunkai are also a joke.

Kudo's to the Okinawans. I hope they continue in this manner.
Posted by: medulanet

Re: Okinawa World Tournament 2009 - 03/17/09 04:02 PM

Quote:

On kumite- I couldn't agree more. Or as one of my new students who's been a cop for 20 years said. "The first school I trained at was heavy into tournament sparring. When I joined the force, I realized after the first few altercations that what I'd been doing had taught me how to lose on the street."



I think regardless of tournament participation most karate dojo teach stuff that will get people maimed or killed on the street. And yet there are tournament guys who can handle themselves quite nicely in SD or street situations. Its more about proper training methods and a well executed kata does not ensure viable street fighting skills either.
Posted by: Neko456

Re: Okinawa World Tournament 2009 - 03/18/09 12:03 PM

Quote:

Quote:

On kumite- I couldn't agree more. Or as one of my new students who's been a cop for 20 years said. "The first school I trained at was heavy into tournament sparring. When I joined the force, I realized after the first few altercations that what I'd been doing had taught me how to lose on the street."



I think regardless of tournament participation most karate dojo teach stuff that will get people maimed or killed on the street. And yet there are tournament guys who can handle themselves quite nicely in SD or street situations. Its more about proper training methods and a well executed kata does not ensure viable street fighting skills either.



Against a skilled street fighter maybe but against a couch potato fitness, quickness and just a stronger body should be an advantage. It is my opinion that Ippon sparring or Tournament sparring is only horning inital contact skills anybody that beed in a real fight know that stop and go is not what happens in a street fight. I believe some people fantasize thinking that tourney training tools prepare one to FIGHT. Setting up the tools and having a plan behind them is what prepares one to fight. Skills, and techniques just like in wrestling or Judo are only part of the skillset continuous attack until the subject is subdued is what should be trained, a different intent must be focus on.

Really the speed, distance, setup and timing are tools developed by sparring the techniques are nearly the same. The main difference is intent, focus and continued assults.

So what I'm saying the fake or striked back fist to the temple and sliding rhk kick to the groin is the same speed as in sparring, just the savage elbow and sweep stomp repeative down punch and gullitines knees are added until the assailant stops moving aggressively.

Tournament sparring sometime only train inital contact sometimes nowdays it's just scoring a point touching somebody.

As a Karate man I've taught Law enforcement and Security personnel it was nothing more then our kyu level self defense course and how to use the Tonfa/PR24, Flashlight as a yawara or YoBo/Baton. The intent and contiunation was stressed. I know some Karate schools don't teach self defense, (just tourney sparring).

Med I know you know going by your past post, this is just general input adding to the discussion and the LE personnel that felt he was learning to lose.
Posted by: shoshinkan

Re: Okinawa World Tournament 2009 - 03/23/09 05:02 AM

Meds, Neko - whilst you are making interesting points better off to start a specific thread as this one is about the tournament in Okinawa, many thanks.