Do you mental weild your will through u'r strikes?

"everyone has a plan until they get hit."
-Mike Tyson

Its not a plan its a moment, like the one after the upper cut he took Buster Douglas, before other 3 that dropped him.
Buster or nobody else expected or planned that!

So, if I am reading you correctly you are saying that you know you will hit them right as or before you swing?

I think what Neko is getting at is about 'intention' of our movements.

I find that when im generally training, ie in free frlow drills or sparring (or on a few occasions in reality)

When it gets 'physical', stuff just happens, no real plan (outside of good habits formed from training), no real intention until I gain the initiative.

Then 'intention' or focus perhaps increases so as I take advantage of a specific opening, or weakness to finish the thing.

Then enters the 'reverse hand' concept, that of delivering a technique that will KO, maim, brake, seal the breath, hold them, etc etc these certainly have 'will power' to assist getting the job done.

the only thing that doesn't compute, neko, is a 50-something with bad grammar and spelling. j/k.

I do think I know what you are getting at....and you know...it MAY just be connected to quatum-mechanics

time slowing down. or at least the perception of it. not matrix-style, but just slightly increaced reation and response awareness via bypassing concious thought. athletes typically describe it as the 'zone'. When things don't move by consciousness, they move by will.

yep, do something long enough and it happens.

Instead of trying to give grammar lessons, why not just say you have never felt that feeling or controlled an opponent with your will. Or You don't think the question can be comparable to anything you have experienced.

There others that type using a collocial or type like thier in a conversation. This is why we don't reply to each others post because you want all the marbles, I'm not trying to pass any test or playing your game. Put your ruler down. You are not in class and you don't get to come up to the board or head of the class.

Its a feeling and impowerment that you get, just before you do something, feelings are hard to put into words, sometimes. Especailly when someone never felt that feeling.
Shoshinkan - Intention comment is close or maybe the same thing, but we are using different words to explain the feeling.

edit to fix "shoshinkan"

if it makes you feel better or superior to assume that, then by all means, continue to do so.

Neko,

With all due respect, you took a shot at Ed first. He has a right to retaliate.

I do think that there are some things that we experience that are just undescribable, that may be the case here.

Not trying to aggravate things here but I've read this three times and I still don't understand what's being talked about.

Neko, I don't think people are trying to say that you don't know what you're talking about, but we just genuinely don't understand what you felt because we've not been there before.

Maybe it's something which can't really be put into words. I think you probably have to experience it first hand to understand what's being talked about...

Mr. Morris It doesn't take anything away or add anything to someone. Either you have felt like that or you haven't?

To the forum let me try explain again.
You hit a guy or put a move on a guy there was nothing that the guy could do about it. He is owed the whole time no matter whatever he tried, no matter how good he is at that time you owned him body and soul. You forced your will on the guy by use of your techniques and will. Maybe I'm being too graphic comparing it to the Tiger, who knows what a Tigers thinking or feeling.

But I'm sure some of u guys have owned people fighting or sparring, you just don't feel it was your will you think it was just your fist or techniques. Some just want to be argumentive it shouldn't make you any less if you think you owned him just bacause you were better, but what about the times when you both know that he is better and you owned him until matched again?

BrianS,
As for my jest at Ed I was only saying that its a feeling that comes over you and your oponent, theres alot going on but you are feeling a mind thing, as if you are predicting his next move r caught in your web. It's not all logical and crebrebal (And giving Sensei Morris his prop he can be sometimes) which is why I jest with ED not to dig too deep mentally, Its a feeling expressed by the physical moves.

Leo-49er I expected some to not know what the hell I was talking about. My gramma on the net is not that good, and fellings are hard to write about on a forum. But tell me you have not tapped your senior in class and he turns and looks at you like WTF. Try that again and happens different but he taps. For that ones session you owned him. Next time he's release from your will and its back to you tapping because he setting you straight. Thats all I'm talking about it happens more time when you are the superior technicain.

I'm not trying to say feeling this makes you superior or less as long as you keep knock people the F&%& Out, it doesn't even matter. I was asking have you ever felt your will & strikes r technique dominate a fight? That's all I'm saying I feel thats almost as close as a man feels to a predator. This happens in Poker, Pool or Tennis non contact stuff but its examplifed when you are making contact.

Leo49, Ed or BrianS you are right I'm only assuming that a Tiger feels this way, Wrong or right. But could it be wrong if its only my opinion? You can say u disagree or don't feel that way. And this thing will kick off.

Moving in the zone is about winning the competition. It is not concious.

Imposing your will on an opponent is more concious. Anything he tries is not working, anything you do is working and you are imposing your will on him. Sometimes it is because he is (not yet) at the same level of ability.
Sometimes it is because one has a superday and the other an off-day.

Once hey figured out what it is that is blocking them (your move or his inability) and came with an appropriate answer, the fun is over.

Both can occur in sport or recreative. In SD you best do not play it that way, best finish it as quicqly as possible and not stay in the zone or play with your opponant.

CVV MY MAN, you expressed it more simplistic the feeling more down to earth and gave good reasoning of why 9- out-10 your senior beats you. But on that day he goes home thinking damn, "how did that crap happen?"

I guess all that comparison with Tiger clamping down on the throat was just too far out.

BrianS I think CVV nailed it and gave some feed back on why it could happen.

Shioshinka - I like your having done that been there too.

Ok, I see.

What you see as imposing your will I see as being better, having better balance, or timing, etc...

The will of both contestants is to win, unless it's a training environment, and both equally want to impose that will.

What matters is who has the most experience or better game, that has much more to do with it than will in my opinion.

Tiger, in the zone and ready to pounce:

I'm late to the party but from scanning through the last few posts it all strikes me this way:

I think the sense of imposing one's will is a very conscious action. Conversely, my goal, with all this training, is reaching a point where what I need to do happens below the level of conscious thought, as CVV is saying.

In the few times I've approached this (always in training) it's surprised me as much as my partner. It's like, "Wow... did I really DO that?"

And frankly, trying to get to the point that I'm consciously imposing my will on someone is almost like a bad karma, bad luck way to get my clock cleaned. That's sort of like toying with someone. For me, that's when things begin to backfire.

Almost BrianS but sometimes you both know that you are not the most skilled and you still own him, that day.

Butterfly - Superimposing a feeling? I don't think its a placing over more a devouring. Its more a syncing whatever movement he makes to oppose you, you are always there to hurt him. In his eyes he can't understand it, he bewildered and confused. Even when he is sucumbing you are there, his escape may only be to run out of range. As I mentioned it happens in non contact competition.

In a street fight you don't know who is best skilled but you just see it in his eyes and body movement every move he makes he expects a hard counter, he starts back peddling and offering a weak defense or covers up seconds before he subcumbs or falls.

So its not really about being better, its more having a stronger will to win or being in-scyn in that U can own a more skilled opponent for that moment. And this makes it hard to put in words, sometimes it never happens again vs. a more skilled training partner, that knows your moves.

Neko,

I know where you're coming from. And, to be honest, have had the same feeling a time or two---where you just can't lose and you feel the domination in your sinews...and that look of defeat in the eye of the other person. However, is this just playing off the sense of being better than someone and reinforcing this and projecting it outward?

Here are two examples of "Buts" that I have to this state of mind:

1) If you have two equally competent individuals who think they are the baddest of the bad, does either one accomodate that feeling when the meet? Do both? Well, if they do, one is wrong if he loses...and loses to a freak KO. But up to that point, did he feel he would have and should have beat the other guy?

2) In the other situation, you have that same disdainful regard from the Aiki instructor in that Ki-Master VS Karate Guy video---where for me I felt the Ki Dude thought he was going to win. This is self-delusional in that particular instance. And didn't change until he was eating a knuckle sandwich.

The feeling may come about when you are so far ahead of the game that you can't help but feel superior...and in some of those instances, everything is going your way.

On the other hand, one may feel that way initially, but when things start to slide down hill....folk change their tune.

So is the feeling something that you can only point to when it does work out? Then, you can't judge it or consider as anything but being in the zone since it is, in some sense, self-fulfilling. For that reason, whenever you have the feeling and you succeed...you succeed...and when you don't succeed, you don't have the feeling. It's circular in that framework.

Regardless, I don't discount the sensation. I do, however, take exception that it is more than an arbitrary sensitivity to a particular instance. A welcome one to be sure, but nothing more than how we imbue the moment from our own perspective.

Thats a interesting thought that its a precieve concept after victory and that both people can feel this during but only one can win or not get beat down.

I think you still see it as a even contest and that each has a chance to win, which is true most of the time. But being owned, I'll express feeling of the times I was on the bottom end of this of course I had confidence that I could win, starting out. But during the conflict nothing that I could do could get me out of this mental and physical trap, the harder I fought the deep I fell in his cluchtes. The only recourses was to escape or jump away and regroup or there was no recourse but to tap or duck and roll. Several Senior Instructors (when I wes younger) or recently some of my advanced students have done this to me, which makes me proud but I didn't rest well that night. The very next day I was back on my game. I think we are on the same page with exception of having the will sucked out of ya, when I was loosing I didn't want to, but I couldn't help myself. There is a domination thats happens I've felt it both ways.
Maybe I'm putting too much into the moment it happens, it could very well be as you defined.

Butterfly Quote -

Regardless, I don't discount the sensation. I do, however, take exception that it is more than an arbitrary sensitivity to a particular instance. A welcome one to be sure, but nothing more than how we imbue the moment from our own perspective.

Which may be considered as the victor, but whats your thought as the dominated better skilled loser? How it happen? Would you just say sh^% happens? Lets try that again when the room stops spinning.

When sparring with intent on fighting to overpower/gain control (jiyu kumite), a lot of emotions come free.
Fear to engage, joy when you gain the upperhand, frustration when the opponent gains upperhand and you are loosing grip. Most of the time, you can get some sort of control back because of your experience and also because you know your opponent and you are not going to the finish.
The best fights are those where all these emotions come free and in the end none of the figters gained the upper hand for the totality of the fight.
But sometimes you have a bad day, or the opponent does something that you cannot yet counter effectively.
When fighting for real (my experience only bar fights and alike, not for life) the emotions are even more primitive and much more intense (not a controlled environment). The action/reaction is much more agressive. Technical ability and mindset is one thing but learning how to deal with emotions like fear is also important.
I think it's good from time to time to fight with an opponent in training, going towards the limits of controlled fight to learn handle these emotions. If you have an opponent where you always win or alwayse lose, in a sense that is described in this thread, these are not the fights to learn fighting. Usually the better man wil then slow down a bit to help the student. But sometimes it is also important to put the dots on the i. And sometimes you will notice that you are no longer the top dog. Maybe you best consider a strategy change in fighting.
My teacher is 61 but when we fight short range he can sometimes do suprising combinations where I have to take some decent hits. But what surprises me the most is that he rarely will give in mentally. Wich will make him an opponent that will not give up in a real fight when he is trapped. In a controlled fight (sparring/competition) you have the luxery to give in. This feeling is not pleasant but helps to see certain things in perspective and can get you towards a new approach and understanding.