oyayubi ipon ken

Posted by: koji112091

oyayubi ipon ken - 01/10/07 12:06 AM

If anybody knows what this is, tell me if you learned it in a class
Posted by: Toudiyama

Re: oyayubi ipon ken - 01/10/07 07:32 AM

Learned it from a book
Posted by: cxt

Re: oyayubi ipon ken - 01/10/07 07:00 PM

Koji

What the heck is this??

Your all over the place asking random questions about stuff when you have also already stated that you don't know/much or train in karate.

You just picking stuff at random to ask or is there a point to this???????

First its karate in general, then KK in specifc, then "head shots" now your asking where people learned specifc fist formations.

You insist that Kyoshinkai karate is what you want to study, but your all over the place questioning its methods.

What gives?






Posted by: koji112091

Re: oyayubi ipon ken - 01/10/07 08:46 PM

Oyayubi ipon ken is a thumb fist that can kill as quickly as you can punch. I want to see if any one dares to teach this in a class.

If I cause so much pain I will stop.
Posted by: koji112091

Re: oyayubi ipon ken - 01/10/07 08:51 PM

Questioning is how people find stuff out. how can I learn stuff whithout asking? I dont think of it as chalenging the art but a way to be the slitest bit better
Posted by: MattJ

Re: oyayubi ipon ken - 01/10/07 10:25 PM

Quote:

Oyayubi ipon ken is a thumb fist that can kill as quickly as you can punch. I want to see if any one dares to teach this in a class.




Oy.
Posted by: Saisho

Re: oyayubi ipon ken - 01/10/07 11:03 PM

I don't think anyone should be discouraged from asking questions. I love to ask questions. Is there anything wrong with it? (see, just asked one ) I agree it can get a little tiresome, but the solution to it is not to answer.
Posted by: Victor Smith

Re: oyayubi ipon ken - 01/10/07 11:40 PM

Koji,

I understand you find a concept and want to question where others do or don't do it.

For one thing, many of us would not answer such a question if someone came into our schools 'demanding' an answer. Most systems have an internal order to instruction, waiting till the students abilities rise to the level of the technique.

The movement you're qestioning might have severe reprecussions is used, but then there are any number of techniques that can do the same, hurt someone badly.

Off hand I can think of a number of karate systems that use that technique openly in their instruction, at the appropriate level, and I'm quite sure there are others that do so more privately. Or you can go outside of karate into a system like the Bando Boar that uses the same technique.

Let's suppose that I might do so in the Isshinryu I teach, on the assumption that the Isshinryu hand stiking formation lends itself to such a use, that instruction would not happen till well after the student is in their black belt studies, and only as a minor variation usage of the vertical striking fist.

There are various reasons why it is not taught earlier, but the most appropriate one is in our current local there is absolutely no need to address it differently. Other times and places I might reconsider that answer.

The technique is neither more or less effective than many other techniques.

My answer of course is only theoretical, especially as I'm not looking for students, nor choosing to give away the manner in which we instruct.

Truthfully, if you want real answers, you have to wait till you can begin serious study, and then find them out in time.
Posted by: underdog

Re: oyayubi ipon ken - 01/11/07 09:37 AM

Almost everything taught in MARTIAL ARTS can kill someone. That is why they are MARTIAL ARTS!!! If applications are not obvious to a white belt, they become more numerous and clear as you move through the ranks. If a person wanted to just learn the moves for health applications, they'd study cardio-kickboxing.


This is MARTIAL ARTS- not a tupperware party!
Posted by: cxt

Re: oyayubi ipon ken - 01/11/07 10:42 AM


Folks I think your missing the point.

Don't have a problem with people asking questions--far from it.

I'm just reading over the kind of "questions" being asked---and I see them as question better answerd thu actual training.

Case in point-look above, koji says:

"a thumb-fist that can kill as quickly as you can punch...... I want to see if anyone dares teach this in class."

Major misconceptions expressed as fact here.

Question that seem to me that come from reading the wrong books and articles and substituting THAT for actual practice and traning.

A person that "thinks" he knows what is what without stepping onto the dojo floor.

Not bagging on the guy for it---we all started there at one time.

I think it would be best for Koji to seek out some proper instrcution--rather than just asking off the wall questions that some actual training would help him with.

When you don't understand what exactly your dealing with--then the "answers" one gets don't do much good.
Posted by: Taison

Re: oyayubi ipon ken - 01/11/07 10:43 AM

No offence Koji.

Find a school. Instead of surfing the net trying to find out about Kyokushin, go to a school and learn it.

Nothing can substitute real knowledge as taught by an instructor. You say how can you find out without questioning, my answer is to research about it and then actually experience it for yourself.

Koji, instead of sitting infront of the computer go to a class.

-Taison out
Posted by: Saisho

Re: oyayubi ipon ken - 01/11/07 02:36 PM

Quote:

Folks I think your missing the point.




I understand what you are saying. My point was that if someone has a question (regardless of what we think of the question), they should feel free to ask it. If everyone feels it is not worth answering, the person asking will get the idea and stop asking such questions, or just go away. Either way, no one is insulted or discouraged and someone possibly learns something.
Posted by: cxt

Re: oyayubi ipon ken - 01/11/07 03:43 PM

Saisho

Perfectly valid point--certainly you don't need me to say that--stands on its own.

I just think/feel that not answering does not really help anyone either.

If they are "newbies" then we need to help them understand "better" not just ignore them.

NOT SAYING THAT IS WHAT YOUR SUGGESTING

I for one feel that there are very few "stupid" questions.

There are however questions that are better answered by actual training and experience.

Take the last question by Koji---guy seesm to think that there is some sort of super lethal fist postion--and wants to know if anyone teachs it.

We are not doing him a favor by ignoring it---we help him best by letting him know his information is incorrect/erronous and try to get him to get some real training--as opposed to just talking about it on-line.

In my opinion of course.

The "best" thing we can do is give people a realitic view of training and realistic expectations of martial arts.

Like I said--just my feeling on it---could easily be wrong, have been before.
Posted by: butterfly

Re: oyayubi ipon ken - 01/11/07 04:10 PM

Come on CXT, despite the notice to the contrary, there are stupid questions...and more importantly, stupid questioners

Ok, perhaps not. But questions are a relative matter and have as much to do with the referenced question as they do from the backdrop from whence they come. In essence, sometimes it is not just the question, but how and why it is asked.

Ignorance can be excused sometimes, irascible stupidity should be reprimanded.
Posted by: cxt

Re: oyayubi ipon ken - 01/11/07 04:32 PM

Butterfly

I put it that way since I ask stupid questions from time to time myself
Trying to give myself a bit of an "out" should I need it.

Excellent point though--and a better more exact way to phrase it that I did.
Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: oyayubi ipon ken - 01/11/07 04:42 PM

so...can ya kill someone with a oyayubi ippon ken ? I think Sean Connery used it with pretty good effect in the movie 'The Presidio'....thats where I learned it.
Posted by: Victor Smith

Re: oyayubi ipon ken - 01/11/07 04:52 PM

More specifically, who does anyone know who has actually killed anyone with this technique, how many kills, and how consistently did it work.

That is the only way you can answer the real question. All else is theory.

I for one haven't killed anyone.

pleasantly,
Posted by: BrianS

Re: oyayubi ipon ken - 01/11/07 05:31 PM

Quote:

I for one haven't killed anyone today.






Fixed that for you Victor.
Posted by: Saisho

Re: oyayubi ipon ken - 01/11/07 05:44 PM

Quote:

so...can ya kill someone with a oyayubi ippon ken ? I think Sean Connery used it with pretty good effect in the movie 'The Presidio'....thats where I learned it.




And he even used his LEFT thumb! Excellent movie!
Posted by: Chen Zen

Re: oyayubi ipon ken - 01/12/07 01:16 AM

Doesnt anyone in the karate section speak english when deciding what to name a thread? Jeez, you guys sure make it hard for a non karateka to know what your talking about.
Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: oyayubi ipon ken - 01/12/07 07:21 AM

oyayubi = 'parent finger' = thumb
ippon = one (single)
ken = strike
Posted by: cxt

Re: oyayubi ipon ken - 01/12/07 11:21 AM

Chen

Nah, its more "mysterious" to use the Japanese.

But all kidding aside, its often more discriptive, and as Ed points out above, yo don't have to say:

"parent thumb single strike"

Kinda of mouthful that way.
Posted by: butterfly

Re: oyayubi ipon ken - 01/12/07 11:41 AM

Chen,

Like CXT said and Ed implied, sometimes it is easier since the language of description is in Japanese. Often times, this is all that I know for the name of something within my practice....I don't have an either or option with an English subtitle attached. Where I practice it is 98% native Japapnese speakers participating.

Might be slightly obtuse to follow along, but similar to the use of Latin to discuss scientific discoveries during the Enlightenment....at least there is a generally accepted language to cross cultural and linguistic barriers.

I must admit though, we don't practice this thumb strike and had no idea what it was until Ed deciphered it.
Posted by: koji112091

Re: oyayubi ipon ken - 01/12/07 08:51 PM

Taison.

If you think I don't want a class you must be sick in the head .
I understand that I need a class but there's no way I can do any thing of the sort.
I know it's hard to understand.You should see what its like to explane to my fellow classmates that I can't play football.
My parents moved me out here in the midle of nowere.
Now I can't do anything outside this place.
Posted by: Chen Zen

Re: oyayubi ipon ken - 01/13/07 12:36 PM

I see. Well, does anyone out there perhaps have some sort of translation book they could recommend. Not necessarily for the whole of japanese language but maybe its martial terms as for karate? I find myself in this forum more and more, yet I have very little experience with any sort of karate. Maybe its all that "Mysteriousness"
Posted by: koji112091

Re: oyayubi ipon ken - 01/13/07 09:23 PM

chen

I have a quistion.

If you don't do karate Why are you on this forum.
I dont mind if your here just tell me why.

If you like karate but can't do it just forget about this message.
Posted by: shoshinkan

Re: oyayubi ipon ken - 01/14/07 03:31 AM

in our very own reading room -

http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=427

also check out part one.
Posted by: BrianS

Re: oyayubi ipon ken - 01/14/07 04:13 PM

koji,

Anyone who is registered can post on this forum.

Are you leaving or not?
Posted by: Taison

Re: oyayubi ipon ken - 01/15/07 02:13 AM

Quote:

If you don't do karate Why are you on this forum.




Koji, you know how bad this question is? What if I asked you the same question? Be more thoughtful next time.

Anyone here is free to come and go as they wish.

-Taison out
Posted by: butterfly

Re: oyayubi ipon ken - 01/15/07 11:41 AM

Koji,

Funny....from your earlier statements, I didn't get the idea you practiced karate either.
Posted by: Chen Zen

Re: oyayubi ipon ken - 01/15/07 04:58 PM

First, thanks for the link.

Now,
Im here for the same reasons as you Koji, to learn. Though I have little formal karate training, The type of training I do may be subject to include ideas or techniques from any system of self defense if it proves to be effective for ME.
Posted by: BrianS

Re: oyayubi ipon ken - 01/15/07 07:28 PM

koji has left the building.