Posted by: Ed_Morris
Thoughts on Goju and point-sparring... - 10/14/06 10:01 PM
after watching "goju" sparring videos on youtube and various sites, all of the tournament point-sparring which is claimed to be 'goju' is virtually indistinguishable from point-sparring in shotokan, TKD, american kenpo, etc.
In dojos which center their training around such sparring in order to win tournaments, the focus moves far away goju principles of fighting methods as contained in it's kata. These tournament based dojos only maintain the style name 'goju' since they happen to include the superficial movements of goju kata curriculum...again, the movements are optimized for appeal to judges - not for utility. tournament goju kata also looks virtually indistiguishable from other mainstream economies of kata movement. robotic, steril and artificial.
I personally don't have a problem with people engaging in tournament...it can be quite fun as long as egos and politics keep in check. but don't pretend it's something that it's not.
The first very large mismatch of goju and training for tournament sparring, is the fighting range. goju kata principles and hence goju as a style is mostly very close-in, grappling-range response. It's main strategies are very far from the tag-sparring goals, no matter how much contact is allowed in sparring.
point-sparring strategy is: score and get out. long-range parry and long-range counter. 'set-up' techniques to out-smart opponent like a game of fast reactive chess. fun stuff, for sure, but there is no correlation to goju principles as a style.
with good instruction, 2-person goju kata principles trains: reflexive response to a close-range threat and elimination of that threat as quickly as possible. adaptive tactile response in stand-up grappling-range. clinch, elbows, knees, neck-cranks, locks, off-balancing, thows, takedowns and all that fun non-point-sparring fighting stuff which would get you disqualified.
If you aren't training fighting principles from goju kata, you aren't training goju. what you are training is the trivialized version of the Art. something that has 'look and feel' from having the curriculum...but nothing in common to goju in practice. eg 'karroty'.
dojos that train both sport and utility...which is the real focus and which is the claim just for marketability sake?
anytime I see a dojo with the words 'self-defense' advertised with tons of trophies in the window...it makes me wonder...well? which is it? sport or utility?
(btw: If someone wishes for me to define 'utility' - forget it. this isn't intended to be a 'kata vs. no-kata' thread...we've already got enough of those floating around.)
also, this thread would apply to any style which point-spars yet claims to be of a style which has dissimilar principles and strategy of utility. in general, training for point-sparring moves Karate further away from Karate, IMO.
In dojos which center their training around such sparring in order to win tournaments, the focus moves far away goju principles of fighting methods as contained in it's kata. These tournament based dojos only maintain the style name 'goju' since they happen to include the superficial movements of goju kata curriculum...again, the movements are optimized for appeal to judges - not for utility. tournament goju kata also looks virtually indistiguishable from other mainstream economies of kata movement. robotic, steril and artificial.
I personally don't have a problem with people engaging in tournament...it can be quite fun as long as egos and politics keep in check. but don't pretend it's something that it's not.
The first very large mismatch of goju and training for tournament sparring, is the fighting range. goju kata principles and hence goju as a style is mostly very close-in, grappling-range response. It's main strategies are very far from the tag-sparring goals, no matter how much contact is allowed in sparring.
point-sparring strategy is: score and get out. long-range parry and long-range counter. 'set-up' techniques to out-smart opponent like a game of fast reactive chess. fun stuff, for sure, but there is no correlation to goju principles as a style.
with good instruction, 2-person goju kata principles trains: reflexive response to a close-range threat and elimination of that threat as quickly as possible. adaptive tactile response in stand-up grappling-range. clinch, elbows, knees, neck-cranks, locks, off-balancing, thows, takedowns and all that fun non-point-sparring fighting stuff which would get you disqualified.
If you aren't training fighting principles from goju kata, you aren't training goju. what you are training is the trivialized version of the Art. something that has 'look and feel' from having the curriculum...but nothing in common to goju in practice. eg 'karroty'.
dojos that train both sport and utility...which is the real focus and which is the claim just for marketability sake?
anytime I see a dojo with the words 'self-defense' advertised with tons of trophies in the window...it makes me wonder...well? which is it? sport or utility?
(btw: If someone wishes for me to define 'utility' - forget it. this isn't intended to be a 'kata vs. no-kata' thread...we've already got enough of those floating around.)
also, this thread would apply to any style which point-spars yet claims to be of a style which has dissimilar principles and strategy of utility. in general, training for point-sparring moves Karate further away from Karate, IMO.