Sparring Techniques

Posted by: oldman

Sparring Techniques - 09/27/06 01:42 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YYfcRxN5fw
Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: Sparring Techniques - 09/27/06 01:53 PM

that was a 'got milk' commercial.

?
Posted by: oldman

Re: Sparring Techniques - 09/27/06 02:13 PM

There... thats better.
Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: Sparring Techniques - 09/27/06 02:33 PM

"got bounce?"
Posted by: MattJ

Re: Sparring Techniques - 09/27/06 02:34 PM

Nice find, Oldman. I may yet figure out that terminology.
Posted by: Chen Zen

Re: Sparring Techniques - 09/27/06 04:48 PM

He had good form. When he quit showing the techniques actually used against resistance i began to wonder how many of these would actually be good to use in combat and I didnt find many. Way to many head high kicks.
Posted by: Xibalba

Re: Sparring Techniques - 09/27/06 08:03 PM

Nice find! Thanks for sharing.

Since I am assuming this is up for discussion, here is what I think:

The good:
The fighter demonstrating the techniques had great rhythm and timing. If you watch him carefully, you can see him match his opponent's rhythm, and then break that rhythm when he attacks (this timing is crystal clear in the demo parts of the video, although if you watch the fights carefully you can pick it up there too). His attacks are starting just as his opponent starts to bounce forward, and landing when his opponent lands on the forward foot. Great timing, and a good reason to break off, attack, or change your rhythm whenever anyone tries to lull you into complacency by matching your rhythm. (Does all this make sense? Sometimes I am at a loss for words at this stuff, and wish we were all actually in the dojo so we could show each other what we mean rather than type about it.)

The bad:
All the round kicks to the head. They seem to work for this gentleman (and I have been known to be a head-kicker myself), but my first preference is for lower, straight-line attacks - my favorite being a lead leg side kick right into the ribs or breadbasket . I especially like to time it like the gent in the video - lull my opponent into a rhythm, and then break that rhythm to plant my heel in their gut as they bounce forward.

Again, thanks for the video!

Mike
Posted by: shoshinkan

Re: Sparring Techniques - 09/27/06 08:36 PM

Quote:

He had good form. When he quit showing the techniques actually used against resistance i began to wonder how many of these would actually be good to use in combat and I didnt find many. Way to many head high kicks.




erm, it is a points sparring video.............
Posted by: Chen Zen

Re: Sparring Techniques - 09/27/06 11:02 PM

So? Sparring is training and if your training is intended to protect you then you must train in the manner in which you choose to defend yourself. Anything else is wasted energy. If he chooses to defend himself with head height kicks then that is his perrogative, but not a good choice of tactics in my opinion.
Posted by: BrianS

Re: Sparring Techniques - 09/27/06 11:07 PM

The bouncing,I hate the friggin bouncing. It looked good and quick,but not my cup of tea.
Posted by: bo-ken

Re: Sparring Techniques - 09/27/06 11:42 PM

I have never been a fan of bouncing. And when people I know do it I always try to sweep them just because I hate it. But that dude had some nice speed. I wish I could transition from hands to feet that quickly. I didn't mind all the head kicks it was point sparring after all. When I point spar I mostly use backfists to the head the entire time.
Posted by: bahamasfighter

Re: Sparring Techniques - 09/28/06 09:13 AM

I think the guy has good form and I think this is design more toward tournament fighting as you can see that he demonstrates it for the tournament. Reasons why he chose so many head kicks is because these score 3 points and is the easiest way to win a fight.
Posted by: shoshinkan

Re: Sparring Techniques - 09/28/06 09:50 AM

good people, please, please - it is soley designed for points sparring and in that context it is excellent.
Posted by: bahamasfighter

Re: Sparring Techniques - 09/28/06 03:57 PM

If anyone has any other clips similar to this, please post or PM me, thanks!
Posted by: ShorinjiSeisan

Re: Sparring Techniques - 09/28/06 05:03 PM

Here's an interesting clip:

PLEASE NOTE! The audio on this clip is NOT WORK SAFE!!
Turn down your speakers if you are watching this around co-workers, children, or your mom.

http://www.vidilife.com/video_play_83523...lls_compilation
Posted by: Ives

Re: Sparring Techniques - 10/02/06 04:17 AM

What rubbish! Only good part is the guys timing.
Posted by: crablord

Re: Sparring Techniques - 10/02/06 09:40 AM

Wasnt rubbish ive never liked bouncing but the guy was fast he had good technique and he knew what he was talking about. 8/10 for that, -1 for the bouncing
Posted by: Ives

Re: Sparring Techniques - 10/02/06 10:11 AM

Quote:

Wasnt rubbish ive never liked bouncing but the guy was fast he had good technique and he knew what he was talking about. 8/10 for that, -1 for the bouncing




uh, O.K.
Posted by: crablord

Re: Sparring Techniques - 10/02/06 10:16 AM

damn straight
Posted by: Ives

Re: Sparring Techniques - 10/02/06 11:36 AM

ahuh!!

You seriously mean this guy shows good technique?
In that case we both have different ideas on good technique.

Take a good look at the mawashi geri he performs. Timing is good, positioning good, but technically poor.
Posted by: Spade

Re: Sparring Techniques - 10/02/06 11:42 PM

Quote:

Wasnt rubbish ive never liked bouncing but the guy was fast he had good technique and he knew what he was talking about. 8/10 for that, -1 for the bouncing




10 - 1 = 9



He can transition from punching combinations to head kicks pretty quick, but he annoys me with all the bouncing.
Posted by: crablord

Re: Sparring Techniques - 10/02/06 11:53 PM

explain how it was poor
Posted by: Chen Zen

Re: Sparring Techniques - 10/03/06 03:25 AM

Lack of Power?
Posted by: crablord

Re: Sparring Techniques - 10/03/06 06:01 AM

well he want trying to knock the other blokes head in :P
Posted by: Chen Zen

Re: Sparring Techniques - 10/03/06 10:06 AM

I know. However, he couldnt if he wanted to. Momentum works agains him
Posted by: Ives

Re: Sparring Techniques - 10/05/06 07:53 AM

Quote:

explain how it was poor




The techniques delivered look unfinished. The mawashi-geri for instance is just a leg movement i.m.o.
It can hurt. Like hell even if you hit one of the right spots. But his looks crap. Like one I would pull two years ago becasue I didn't knew better.
Posted by: shoshinkan

Re: Sparring Techniques - 10/05/06 07:58 AM

I shall stay out of this one as my tournament days are long gone and I have around 'zero' intrest anyhow.

I think the guy doing the demo is an ex English champion and I have a video clip of him seriously kicking butt in semi contact, which I shall try and link up.
Posted by: Ives

Re: Sparring Techniques - 10/05/06 08:09 AM

I.m.o. this vid shows poor technique. Maybe he can actually kick it. But I'm sceptic about this flick.
And hey, it's just my opinion...
Posted by: shoshinkan

Re: Sparring Techniques - 10/05/06 10:10 AM

no problems, I dont give a flying &%£" about tournament sparrin ganyhow! LOL
Posted by: Chen Zen

Re: Sparring Techniques - 10/05/06 11:33 PM

When I made my comment about his lack of power it was because of the mawashi geri. He puts his weight forward in his punches. This isnt necessarily bad but when he goes for the kick, he moves his weight back by pushing off with the kicking foot. Moving this weight back is robbing his kick of power and snap, as well as speed Im sure.
Posted by: bo-ken

Re: Sparring Techniques - 10/06/06 12:12 AM

Chen good point.
Posted by: Chen Zen

Re: Sparring Techniques - 10/06/06 02:56 AM

Do what I can. thanks.
Posted by: Ives

Re: Sparring Techniques - 10/06/06 05:29 AM

Exactly! He also doesn't seem to give the geri any 'hip'.
Posted by: shoshinkan

Re: Sparring Techniques - 10/07/06 04:20 AM

http://media.putfile.com/Point-Fighting-Karate


I think the guy is the same as in the first video on this link, either way it is quite a good video despite the 'repeat' mode used.

He certainly has a sweet hook kick and nice takedown technique.
Posted by: student_of_life

Re: Sparring Techniques - 10/08/06 04:40 PM

forgive me my ignorance oh forms gods......

but id take one of thoe "pnches" or kicks in the neck anytime of the day.

he's real fast, and he's got great fighting spirit, but in all sernoisness it looks like a cat fight, he scrambles in like he's in mid seziure then , yes, i'll admit lands his glove on a target aright, but his postre.....bodydynamics.....bone alignment....

alot of people spar with those or similar rules don;t they?, who the heck am i to say anything i guess. but if anyone wants to read yet another faceless opnion id say he's a great guy to spar with.....but that's not ture karate, not by a long shot.
Posted by: Chen Zen

Re: Sparring Techniques - 10/08/06 04:44 PM

Therein lies the problem. The sparring isnt alive. To truely use any art effectively there must be resistance. Its like lifting weights, if their is no resistance then you experience no growth.
Posted by: student_of_life

Re: Sparring Techniques - 10/08/06 04:47 PM

i wonder how much "resistence" there wold be if you swpet the little french man
Posted by: Chen Zen

Re: Sparring Techniques - 10/08/06 04:55 PM

Exactly. This is why I dont like the whole point system that many MA have adopted in sparring and competition. Fighting is more than stop and go, high speed slapping matches. Id wager that either one of those guys would have immediately lost if they were properly tackled and mounted.
Posted by: student_of_life

Re: Sparring Techniques - 10/08/06 10:37 PM

agreed. but i still won't sleep tonight unless i do say that the guy is very good at what he dose, i mean fightuing under what ever set of rules his style uses. very quick and athletic!!

but i wish to hell these guys would just fes up and say "yes we are sport karate!!!!" i honestly feel that the pratical fighting applications they make use of in their kumite is more abstract then the idea's presented in kata!!!

and the bouncing.....im really sorry guys......but the idea of bouncing while you fight was made popular by playng the video game street fighter!!!!! i don't care what obscure reason anyone presents to me, im set in my ways!

as far as sparing these guys are great, please don't get me wrong, these videos are proably taken from national events or something, he is fast, real fast. But he lacks a certin something that I'm realy not sure what to call, all i can say is that what these guys do is exactly what and why my ex army boxing grandfather laughs when i tell him im in karate.

sparing---kick ass

self defence----ass kicked
Posted by: Chen Zen

Re: Sparring Techniques - 10/08/06 11:34 PM

Sure he is athletic and fast but the speed is an illusion. The thing thats missing is the power. You cant trade one for the other. There must be a balance. He was definately a good point sparrer. No debates on that but the reality is that most impact in sport sparring is little more than a slap and that just doesnt cut it to me when talking about realistic technique and training methods.
Posted by: shoshinkan

Re: Sparring Techniques - 10/09/06 05:01 AM

Guys and Gals, with respect the 'sport' vs 'real' debate is rather old - I agree with what you say, I don't do sport karate and havent for a long time.

I linked this video simply because we have people that do sport karate who might enjoy it. And also because some of the 'real' karateka on here might be able to say -

'Hey very good sport karate'.

I would wager the guy in the video would plant his fist firmly on the nose of the majority of us before we could blink an eye, and lets be frank in most self defence situations thats all you need.

Take it for what it is and not what it isnt!
Posted by: JohnL

Re: Sparring Techniques - 10/09/06 08:32 AM

And yet again the thread goes off at a tangent.

Let's be reasonable as to what the clip was. It shows point sparring with techniques broken down and explained in detail (if your french is OK) and then examples of these techniques shown as used in competition.

As such let's discuss it for what it is.

You have been given clear, concise explanations of techniques usable in point sparing competition, and a methodology for working and improving them. The videos of the guy showing them in competition also illustrate that what he is showing is usable in the competitions that they are designed for.

I'm sorry but saying that if he's taken to the ground and pounded doesn't cut it for me. The guy is good at what he does and fights under rules for which his technique is designed for. Take Randy or Chuck and put them in a point sparring context and they'd have their a$$e$ handed to them on a plate.

As for Ives comments that the guy has poor technique, I suggest you get on the mat with the guy in the video and show him how his technique is flawed.
Posted by: student_of_life

Re: Sparring Techniques - 10/09/06 09:07 AM

hmmm, thats what i thought i was saying??

i agree (and thought i already did) he is damn fast and good at what he dose.

i'll take another swing at it, he spar's, so do i in fact!! and what constitutes a point in his system would not be considered in mine. his hook kicks were slaping with the toes and ball of the foot (futeki??) incorrect striking surface. his feet were almost always a few inches off the grond, sometimes they both were. his round house kicks however make mine look like a leg spasim!!

so i am taking this video for what it's worth to me, he dose explain some good combinations, but other then a fit young athletic male in his prime, i don't know many people that can just pop up a round house kick to the face like it's nobodies business!!

so i'l stick to what works for me, if we want to discus that then hey, i'm game!. his idea of throwing alternate punches is nothing ground breaking, yes for the last time he dose thorw a mean round house kick, maby he'll be as kool as chuck noris some day, if that day ever comes??, i'll still be sweeping ,ridgehand striking and throwing punches.

Posted by: shoshinkan

Re: Sparring Techniques - 10/09/06 09:22 AM

In relation to your hook kick comment, if he used the heel then serious injury could result, simple as that im afraid - this is semi contact points fighting and likely WUKO rules.

Posted by: student_of_life

Re: Sparring Techniques - 10/09/06 09:49 AM

yeah your right

sorry, but that was concerning my own expirence with the kick, in th estyle i pratice hook kicks are allowed, but the only part of the face allowed to be attacked is from the eyebrows to the chin, and as far to the sides as, but not including the ears. the reasoning is the same, the face is legal target, but the ears are to dangerous to risk, as well as the forehead or bck of the head.

looked to me like he was hiting behind the ear?? could be wrong.....

and again, with my style were expected to exercise control, serious injury resuts from neglegence- funakoshi. if yo want my 2 cents, he hit with his toes cause he was too far away and still wanted to look like a point. but hey, im probly off on a tangent again!!

Posted by: shoshinkan

Re: Sparring Techniques - 10/09/06 09:53 AM

no your comments are fair but we need just to accept that it is a game of tag, a sport, it isn't real combat!