advice on kicking

Posted by: USMCAmerKenpoJKD

advice on kicking - 05/30/06 12:07 AM

Hello all, I have posted on here before. It has been quite some time again. Since my last post I have been teaching more and more. (I teach a combination of American Kenpo Karate and Jeet Kune Do) I have a certain student who has incredible upper body balance and intense focus with his punches. He has a problem when it comes to his kicking though. His front snap kick looks good, but when it comes to doing his side kick, and roundhouse kicks, he seems to have some trouble. He wobbles somewhat and I have that ominous feeling that when he kicks that one of these times he is just going to fall over.

I have tried having him do wall exercises (though I prefer my lessons outside) I have him use a tree. I run him through the chamber-extend-re-chamber and finnaly I have him put the foot down. I have him do this about 5 times each leg, and he seems to improve some.

I apologize for rambling on like this. All I am in need of is some advice from fellow teachers on how to correct this problem, or students who may have a solution.

Thanks a lot

Tony (Rich or Richard works too)
Posted by: lineOfFire

Re: advice on kicking - 05/30/06 01:04 AM

I would first have him do side kicks slow and methodical. Lifting and using only the muscles involved in the kick. Extend not to kick but to reach out. As he/she improves, go faster and faster. From there they should have now know how the body aligns as it kicks and the balance it takes to transfer the energy from the ground to the kicking leg, to the feet.
Posted by: hedkikr

Re: advice on kicking - 05/30/06 02:05 AM

don't lean back (body: crescent shape)

pivot on the toes (not the heel)
Posted by: shoshinkan

Re: advice on kicking - 05/30/06 06:42 AM

All good advice already, if i may add that I tend to start people who struggle with kicking on kicking targets, it gives them a focus point and allows for distance to be judged.

Dont worry about power at this point, but kicking air is difficult for many, so take away that difficulty.

Also foot movement, allowing the supporting leg to flex and the foot to rotate on the ball of the foot, a little is always good practise IMO.
Posted by: MattJ

Re: advice on kicking - 05/30/06 08:00 AM

I would definitely give him some resistance to practice his kicks on - either a kicking pad or a heavy bag. That should solve the balance problem very quickly.

I assume he is not ready to spar yet for some reason?
Posted by: TeK9

Re: advice on kicking - 05/30/06 08:10 AM

Seems your student is having problems with balance and mechanics of a kick.

Have him lay down on his side and practice the motions of the kick he wishes to learn. For the side kick have him practice on his side aiming his foot on a straight line on the ground. This gives him a refference point when he chambers and rechambers his kicking leg.
Posted by: MattJ

Re: advice on kicking - 05/30/06 09:06 AM

Quote:

Seems your student is having problems with balance and mechanics of a kick.

Have him lay down on his side and practice the motions of the kick he wishes to learn. For the side kick have him practice on his side aiming his foot on a straight line on the ground. This gives him a refference point when he chambers and rechambers his kicking leg.




That is a new one to me. Pardon me Tek9, but how is getting your student to lay on the floor going to help their balance? Isolating them from gravity would seem to be counter-productive.
Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: advice on kicking - 05/30/06 11:36 AM

dealing with his response is all yours Matt....I can't bear to look.
Posted by: butterfly

Re: advice on kicking - 05/30/06 12:14 PM

Well, Tek's advice may not all be bad here. Perhaps he did not explain thouroughly.

There was a practice/exercise I used to do for side kicks...and tangentially with round kicks....way back 20 years ago (and that I occasionally still do) that benefitted me. However, this may not answer the question of balance, but will get the body used to the kick. The exercise was done to strengthen and stretch the legs, hips, butt and lower back for kicking.

Put the body down as if you are going to do a pushup and then angle your body more or less to one side. Using bent arms for support and the lower leg (non-kicking leg) with the ball of the foot on the ground and its heel pointed upward in the direction of the kick.

Now, chamber the kicking leg with the thigh perpendicular to your torso and keep it at hip height. Push upward with the heel of your kicking foot while not dropping or turning the knee, and not lowering the angle of the thigh, and then try to reach toward the ceiling using the hip and supporting leg for the push. Keep proper alignment and do this slowly, but energetically for the thrust of the kick where you would normally put the extra "umph" in the impact. This forces you to use your hip to place the kick properly.

You'll find this is harder than it looks and will stretch and strengthen the hip and butt for support of this kick when done in it's proper vertical orientation.

-B
Posted by: lineOfFire

Re: advice on kicking - 05/30/06 01:15 PM

There is also another way, similar to your practice, that devolops strength to the body core and the kick. That is; stay on the practice leg and lean forward, your body should be horizontal, hold on to a chair to help balance and go down and press back up, you are actually just chambering and using your body weight as a resistance at the same time training the body for alignment, that aids with balance.
Posted by: Supremor

Re: advice on kicking - 05/30/06 02:29 PM

Quote:

I have tried having him do wall exercises (though I prefer my lessons outside) I have him use a tree. I run him through the chamber-extend-re-chamber and finnaly I have him put the foot down. I have him do this about 5 times each leg, and he seems to improve some.




I think the fact that he is improving, albeit slowly, shows that what you are doing is working. I would advise trying his kicks slowly in air, then a bit faster in air, while letting him use a good heavy bag to practice on.

The truth is that nothing beats practice. The one thing that sports science has taught me, is that the best way to get good at something is to do it. Maybe suggest to him that he spends 10 mins a day just trying slow kicks in air. After a month of that, I am sure his kicks will have improved a whole lot.

I wouldn't suggest lying down or doing it holding on to a wall or anything- that eliminates any role for balance, you've got to work those stabilizer muscles. If you've got some quality gym or equipment at hand, wobble boards can be very effective at building balance. If you can do a slow high side kick on a wobble board, then chances are, you're Bruce Lee

Don't forget core exercises either. The stabilizers used in balancing are all found in the trunk. If you can get him doing core strengthening like planks, even working up to a lever, then I'm sure it will help his balance immeasurably.
Posted by: creative

Re: advice on kicking - 05/30/06 03:45 PM

A couple of things that i dont think have been mentioned yet.

Make sure that the eyes are always focused on who they are kicking, this usually helps with balance. I have seen lots of beginners looking in all sorts of different diretions whilst kicking!

Another thing is the arms, i try to keep my hands up in a gaurd sort of position, amounst other things, helping with balance. I know a variation on kicking is to throw the kicking side arm backwards, so it depends on how you throw your kicks...

Hope this may have been of use
Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: advice on kicking - 05/30/06 03:53 PM

here's something to try:

practice sidekicks for 10 minutes. (fast and slow)
practice RH for 10 minutes. (fast and slow)

repeat every day.
Posted by: tkd_high_green

Re: advice on kicking - 05/30/06 04:35 PM

Quote:

I would first have him do side kicks slow and methodical. Lifting and using only the muscles involved in the kick. Extend not to kick but to reach out. As he/she improves, go faster and faster. From there they should have now know how the body aligns as it kicks and the balance it takes to transfer the energy from the ground to the kicking leg, to the feet.




I too have difficulty in maintaining balance, especially when throwing a side kick off the back leg. For me, this was due to an injury in my ankle that meant I had very little strength in my left leg for balance. While I could fairly easily perform the side kicks against a bag because I could fall into my target with the kick, keeping my balance to do them in a pattern was almost imposible. Have your student work on this at home. Have something available to use to catch his balance but make sure he doesn't rely on it to keep his balance through the whole motion. As long as his technique is good, proper hand and foot position, knees bent, he will eventually gain strength and balance, but be patient, it will take a long time. And don't worry if he falls.

Laura
Posted by: creative

Re: advice on kicking - 05/30/06 05:24 PM

Quote:

practice sidekicks for 10 minutes. (fast and slow)
practice RH for 10 minutes. (fast and slow)

repeat every day.




lol. As simple as that. I do think that it is more important that the practice is quality practice. Practice rarely makes perfect, but often makes difficult to get rid of bad habits.

I would go ten good repetions over 10 minutes of bad technique every time. IMO.

Also there is no reason why training cant be more interesting than just repeating techniques.
Posted by: adaca

Re: advice on kicking - 06/09/06 01:34 PM

Hi

About the kicking techniquefrom suggested by ED for 10 mins.
Its how some people trained in days gone by
Me included.
Sometimes for hours on only 3 techniques under a Japanese master with him correcting us by what ever means he saw fit.
It automate's a technique.

thanks
Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: advice on kicking - 06/09/06 03:16 PM

keyword being 'practice'. if you were just throwing a leg out there for 10 minutes, thats not practice...thats exercise. The other clue in my answer was the 'fast/slow' reference. practice things slow for quality; and fast for quality with speed.

exercise would be like tae-bo kicking.