Why choose karate?
Posted by: BrianS
Why choose karate? - 11/21/05 04:27 AM
If you were new to martial arts and looking for a school why should you choose karate all schools not being equal aside?
When I started I wanted to learn how to fight/defend myself. I think that's the main reason most people do,atleast it's the one I hear the most.
With all the different styles why should one choose karate over them?
Posted by: Galen
Re: Why choose karate? - 11/21/05 08:56 AM
Honestly, if real world self defense is the goal, I would not recommend any stand up style or system. It is simply too limited in its scope to be real world effective.
I would go with some form of MMA. yes stand up is a required element, but without the rest of the package MMA offers, stand up alone just wont do it.
Galen
Posted by: bo-ken
Re: Why choose karate? - 11/21/05 11:09 AM
I think children choose it because of movies and tv. Any character beating the bad guys does karate on tv they really don't say many other styles. I think adults join for defending themselves and for exercise. I started taking Karate because I didn't like my Tae Kwon Do school. I started taking Tae Kwon Do because I was the smallest and weakest kid ever. But now I am really glad I switched to Shotokan I love it with all my heart.
Posted by: Ives
Re: Why choose karate? - 11/21/05 11:12 AM
Karate forms you also mentally. As a self-defense system it works well. (Not all styles are mere stand up.) We train in locks and choke also, still we focus on stand up fighting. The principle is to take someone out standing, that way you don't need to go to the ground.
I must confess, the theory alsways sounds nice, real life is so often different from theory.
Posted by: Neko456
Re: Why choose karate? - 11/21/05 11:32 AM
I'd say thats true if you 18-35 yrs of age and want to compete in UFC or MMA competition. But really MMA misses a lot of real world applications and really miss a lot of what self defense is about. First and fore most it dismisses the thought that you can defend againts multiple opponents almost and concentrates on fighting 1 unarmed person.
Though it teaches just about every tactics that a self defense karate style does it stress fighting fair and safe clinching and in. It as this message states have a problem with real self defense thinking its being a sissy to strike/throws grabbing or kicks to he groin, stomps to the insteps/joints (in shoes far more potent then bare feet) and strike the eyes or doesn't know that this what Karate Is. Against multiple opponents that are really trying to hurt you will need these skills. Yeah I know thats improbable but you can't tell that to someone thats pulled it off and walked/ran away.
MMA has its own reality with two people fighting fair its a great option. But for a total street self defense system it lacks alot. A total self defense Karate teaches when to run. And effective training that doesn't require the vigor of training to fight another glaidator. Karate works for the average person living a average life other then persusing MMA competition.
I admire the training that goes into MMA, but it lacks in total reality of what happens on the street. If you mix it with bouncing, security or SD Karate then its would be more realistic.
Its my personal opinon that stand up fighting is where it should start then try to cover the ranges. My experince is different then 99% of all fights both people end up on the ground. I believe and found that someone does 69% but not both parties. And if it does you should get up as quickly as possible on you back or mounted LONG is a back situation on the street. You can't see what about to kick or hit you!!
Posted by: JoelM
Re: Why choose karate? - 11/21/05 11:36 AM
Wow, only took 4 replies to turn into a MMA vs. TMA thread.(1 reply really, but 4 for another reply to it)
DING!!DING!!DING!!
**We have a NEW WORLD RECORD!!!!**
sigh 
Posted by: MattJ
Re: Why choose karate? - 11/21/05 12:44 PM
Honestly, at least in the USA, most people are going to choose whatever is closest and/or cheapest. Few beginners know enough to even ask what the difference is between this style or that.
Posted by: phoenixsflame
Re: Why choose karate? - 11/21/05 01:13 PM
Really sad. If we want to post MMA/TMA debates, why not do it in a thread not concerned with one or the other? Come on guys, if you want to go tout MMA go do it in the MMA forum. This is the Karate forum. Let the Karate people discuss it.
Now, onto the actualy REASON for the thread.
The reason I went into Karate was because I started at TKD when I was young, young, young. I disliked the looseness of the teaching that was at the Dojo. (Not that all TKD is loosely taught, just that one
) So I generalized and thought all TKD was like that. I then hunted around and found a Karate Dojo with my mother. When they recited the Dojo Kun, kept to Dojo Japanese and were very respectful, I'd found my art.
I enjoy the traditional aspect of any martial art I've practiced, I've done some Chinese Trad and Japanese Trad. I can honestly say I've enjoyed them all and they've taught me something important in my day to day life.
Posted by: Ed_Morris
Re: Why choose karate? - 11/21/05 01:17 PM
100% agree with Matt.
Posted by: Neko456
Re: Why choose karate? - 11/21/05 01:22 PM
I don't think its a MMA vs.Trad M. I simple respond that the average person does not inspire to be a MMA or UFC competitor.
Especailly after u see how hard you have to train.
Its good vigorous training far more then a 35-40+ yr old need or want having give presentations on the job or a family that need him/her at work. MMA because of the V.T., injuries are more common. I just spoke with a guy that had crack rib from a knee and a black eye from a punch. It happens in Trad MA but not as often once you are good from 3kyu up you can spar hard for months before injuries like that occurs.
One of the down fall of Trad Te is that in sparring you pull too much, but that is why you can go to work bruised but not broken and battered.
So its not vs. anything just hindsight and being real. Can U just mention the pluses and minuses w/o it being better then. He did ask why karate.
Posted by: WuXing
Re: Why choose karate? - 11/21/05 01:41 PM
With the knowledge I have now about martial arts, I would choose an Okinawan karate dojo for its traditional training methods. For a good, intense workout, access to a makiwara and weights (sashi/chishi), and for attention to detail. A karate school that didn't have those things, I wouldn't want to be a part of.
Posted by: phoenixsflame
Re: Why choose karate? - 11/21/05 01:44 PM
Quote:
I don't think its a MMA vs.Trad M. I simple respond that the average person does not inspire to be a MMA or UFC competitor.
Especailly after u see how hard you have to train.
Its good vigorous training far more then a 35-40+ yr old need or want having give presentations on the job or a family that need him/her at work. MMA because of the V.T., injuries are more common. I just spoke with a guy that had crack rib from a knee and a black eye from a punch. It happens in Trad MA but not as often once you are good from 3kyu up you can spar hard for months before injuries like that occurs.
One of the down fall of Trad Te is that in sparring you pull too much, but that is why you can go to work bruised but not broken and battered.
So its not vs. anything just hindsight and being real. Can U just mention the pluses and minuses w/o it being better then. He did ask why karate.
Sorry Neko, it wasn't you I was talking about. But the person who said "standing" martial arts were useless.
(Note : Almost got sucked into the debate. Heh.)
But, seriously. I think control is a huge issue Neko, I think its a good thing. I don't think that sparring with control is a *bad* thing. In fact, I think its a very good thing. If you can't react with control, what happens when you misjudge a situation and react combatively towards a non-threat that you *thought* was a threat?
Or, a good example. A jujutsu practitioner whom I dated for a while had her nidan. (This isn't Brazilian Jujutsu mind you, traditional Japanese) She and her school were very rough and wanted to be very combat minded. We were at a party and a drunk friend of the hosts came up and laid his hand on her shoulder to proposition her. She ended up doing a simple arm lock, take down of some sort. It happened much to fast for me to fully remember. But, she ended up doing some damage, nothing fatal. She ended up leaving that Dojo and going to an Aikido group.
See, I think this is another reason I enjoy traditional Karate. Bruises fade, control is learned. If you can control your punch, keep your elbow slightly bent, so that if you were to fully extend you would do some serious damage.
Pulling a punch isn't about fully extending yourself and still missing, its about keeping your elbow bent and being able to go forward, but not doing so.
Anyone can throw a hard punch given a few hours of training, not everyone can keep that hard punch from doing real damage....
Control *is* a good thing. Not something to lament.
Posted by: phoenixsflame
Re: Why choose karate? - 11/21/05 01:48 PM
Quote:
With the knowledge I have now about martial arts, I would choose an Okinawan karate dojo for its traditional training methods. For a good, intense workout, access to a makiwara and weights (sashi/chishi), and for attention to detail. A karate school that didn't have those things, I wouldn't want to be a part of.
Sorry for the double post, I just wanted to respond to this
Okinawan is good, but there are traditional Japanese Karate's as well that have the traditional aspects *nods*
www.jko.com
They have a good amount of Dojo's, all Shito-Ryu, they are an amazing organization that I've had nothing but good experience with. Hanshi Minobu Miki is an amazing teacher for the advanced students, and all of those under the JKO banner I've not had any negative interactions with. (I was apart of JKO Paradise, under the Nosworthy's... an amazing group of teachers in California, really one of the best learning experiences of my life. I was able to be in the presence of Soke Mabuni before his death, personally train with Hanshi Miki, and see some of the amazing martial artists of this generation of Shito-Ryu... A really wonderful experience that I was sad to leave. I'm now practicing with a Shotokan Dojo, in the Chicago area. A decent bunch of people from what I've seen thus far.)
Posted by: Ives
Re: Why choose karate? - 11/21/05 03:42 PM
JoelM, I didn't went discussing MMA, be clear about that.
I just stated that I picked up karate for mental and physical. Also for the self-defense aspect.
I tried to state that karate is more than just learning how to fight (from a stand-up position like most people think). Karate is much more because of broad scala of aspect, not only in the fighting area.
That is why I joined the karate journey.
Posted by: Mark Hill
Re: Why choose karate? - 11/21/05 05:45 PM
It isn't like that joel.
If you train in an art with a lot of self defense methods, with the rigour of MMA (and steal any advances they have in concepts, like the importance of gorund fighting), you should be right - simialrly an MMA gym which does teach self defense will be fairly well rounded too.
I can honestly say that a real Karate school or Dojo would and does teach ground fighting, joint locking and koppo as well striking vital points. Most of the "Karate" I see today is a shadow of what the art once was, IMHO. There are some good Japanese Karate places, but even then the focus mostly on "sport" and all Japanese Karate of the Shorin lineage is a version of Itosu's school yard Karate taught at so many places these days. Even the difference between Japanese Goju and Okinawa Goju is evident. Karate is one of the most deadly arts around, if you are lucky enough to find a good school. I say this out of knowledge as I have trained in two forms of Kung Fu, Jujutsu, and a few others to yudansha level. The facts are, IMHO, you cant beat true Karate.
Posted by: Ryan_Doherty
Re: Why choose karate? - 11/21/05 09:43 PM
Hi paul, could u explain *true* karate if not a little ?
Okay ryan, I will explain. There are people out there who read books and start thier own system. There are people out there who train for a few months and start thier own Dojo's, these people IMHO do not do real Karate. Among the groups of Karateka I find very few actually know much about history of Karate. Did you know that at least a part of Karate originaly came from Japan? There are so many fakes out there. So much of Karate has not been written down. Even the respected Historians are off on some points, IMHO. I have been to over 400 schools in the last 10 years of my life. I can count on one hand the schools I would send someone to. This is from East Coast to West Coast. Sad but true. I keep notes on ever school I go to. It is only getting worse. I know this is a little off the subject but you asked.
Posted by: Ed_Morris
Re: Why choose karate? - 11/21/05 10:12 PM
Quote:
Did you know that at least a part of Karate originaly came from Japan?
If you have time, I'm interested to hear what info you have on this statement. Thanks.
I wouldn't want to go into to much detail but the original Okinawa Kings comes from the Minamoto line. The original gotente art of the Motobu's, a branch of the Minamoto lineage was the forerunner of modern Karate. This was the original art of uchinadi, or the Hand of Okinawa. If you want more I will discuss it off list.
Posted by: Ed_Morris
Re: Why choose karate? - 11/21/05 10:32 PM
I'll branch off a thread...thanks.
Posted by: srv
Re: Why choose karate? - 11/21/05 10:44 PM
Realisticly most people who begin martial arts will go to whatever style/club that is closeby or will go along with a friend who already trains in a particular style. However, the reason I would choose karate is that, at least in my dojo, it's agreat combination of traditional self defence as well as techniques and applications that are more relavent to modern street self defence - we also do plenty of training in ground fighting, chokes, holds/locks etc as well as the stand up fighting. We also are into looking at the history of karate and the traditional philosophies of the martial arts as well as self reflection, self imrovement etc.
By The way Sensei Paul Hart, I'd also be really interested in reading about the information you have on the origins of karate.
Posted by: BrianS
Re: Why choose karate? - 11/21/05 11:15 PM
Quote:
Honestly, at least in the USA, most people are going to choose whatever is closest and/or cheapest. Few beginners know enough to even ask what the difference is between this style or that.
+2 That pretty much sums it up Matt.Thanks!
Posted by: roniwankan
Re: Why choose karate? - 11/22/05 01:09 PM
I agree with Matt. Location and Money are very important, but each one have its particular reason, even if money and some possibilities are restricted.
I began because of tradition (ok, I confess that I though I would learn in the first day how to smash one's brain), respect, and everything that Japan can offer to us.
Posted by: Mark Hill
Re: Why choose karate? - 11/22/05 04:52 PM
Quote:
I can honestly say that a real Karate school or Dojo would and does teach ground fighting, joint locking and koppo as well striking vital points. Most of the "Karate" I see today is a shadow of what the art once was, IMHO. There are some good Japanese Karate places, but even then the focus mostly on "sport" and all Japanese Karate of the Shorin lineage is a version of Itosu's school yard Karate taught at so many places these days. Even the difference between Japanese Goju and Okinawa Goju is evident. Karate is one of the most deadly arts around, if you are lucky enough to find a good school. I say this out of knowledge as I have trained in two forms of Kung Fu, Jujutsu, and a few others to yudansha level. The facts are, IMHO, you cant beat true Karate.
Just quietly - I agree. If your sensei is good enough, it is all in the kata and basics. There is a lot of grappling in Hangetsu, Heian Sandan and Tekki Shodan, and they are post 1922 katas. I know this and I am only a young Nidan (and I can apply them, rather than collect them as the MMA'ers would say).
Although I also train in hapkido and although the focus is different, I think it too is a complete art. It more or less came from Daito Ryu, and like the lineage of Te you speak of, it is similar - the art of the nobility, using weapons, hands and feet and grappling for self preservation and close security. As I understand it.