Combining krav with traditional arts?

I advise you to put every technique you have in your personal arsenal into the "process".

Take a technique, prove it's usefulness, simplicity and readability, then if it doesn't pass, drop it. If it pass, keep it. Remember, no need to have interlapping techniques. You don't need two styles of side-kicks. Stick to the one that works best for YOU.

Another pointer. Techniques should be simple, effective and usefull. Artfull, flashy techniques are for movies and demonstrations.

-Taison out

Yeah, I see what you mean, good point, I have a habit of wanting to stick to every style i come across without deviation so the techniques get in the way of each other, I'm going to just sit down and evaluate all the techniques I know, and test them and then document the ones that are the most effective, and systemize what I know. How does that sound?

-Taison out

over a hundred views, you'd think there would be a few more replies.

It appears there are a lot of lurkers on the Krav forum. I have seen as high as 18 at a time. I think it is because this is the most (or one of the most) active Krav forum on the net. And I think we have a great bunch of folks here who have interesting ideas and opinions.

Very true, this is a great forum, FA.com is a great site in general but hte forums are the best part.

Hi there, I'm new in this forum, but I'd like to say something in response to your post. I've been training KM for almost two years, and as it's common, my instructor has a traditional MA background as a lot of the students. I don't know if this is common in other places, but my instructor is very opened to apply techniques from other disciplines in our training with the only rule of keeping things practical and flexible. So, as some of the students are wrestlers, boxers and martial artists, the training becomes quite interesting completing things with techniques from different places. Since KM don't have too many ground techniques, we use BJJ and greco roman wrestle as a complement, we are aware to try to stay away from the ground, but in reality about 90% of street fights end up in the ground, so it doesn't hurt to know what to do when you are in that position. I guess it's all about keep yourself open to learn new things. You can't pretend that any combat system or martial art has the absolut truth.

Hiya I train in Ashihara Karate (A/K), Atemi Jujitsu (J/J) and Krav Maga, in manchester, UK. I find that the techniques I am learning Bolt on to my A/K and also to my J/J I find that where some techniques lack something then a technique from one of my othe styles fits in so I would agree we should cross train to become better martial artists

That's true. I have found that my TKD and karate training has helped to sort of fine tune my skills with krav and combatives, and provode a strong foundation and of course it's true, what one system lacks another can pick up the slack.
My only problem with this is that the delivery system and structure of the techniques for traditional MA's like karate
or TKD are vastly different from krav or MT, combatives etc. How do you approach htis without confusing your muscle memeory?

All these awesome Martial Artists in the UK. I need to jump the puddle some day and meet all the UK folks on here.

Anyone coming over the pond I know some decent 2bit hotels/B'n'B's that would do for you whilst you train and within the next 18 months I'm looking at opening my own club so you'd be welcome to come and train/teach as my guest

Dobbersky, I am very jealous of you. I am dying to learn KFM (Keysi Fighting Method). Right now, it's only available in your country. A couple of people who stuiied JKD, I believe, formualated this supposedly awesome street fighting system. I've heard so much about it. What is your exposure to it? Maybe you can tell us if it's similar to KM. From what I've seen in the bonus features for Batman Begins, it uses a lot of knees and elbows. It's not flashy but it looks devestating!

KFM, I have seen the same as you and read the articles in the MA mags, so I couldn't comment. I suppose the best way around it is to cross train in 3 styles like I have, but then if you take Kappap this is different to KM or the Russian 'Systema' which is quite awesome in quite good as a martial art on its own. Failing that if you are young enough try getting a University course near the Honbu for KFM and traiin whilst you learn

First of all, I'll preface my comment by saying that I'm generally an amateur. That being said, I was menially trained in Krav Maga, and have independently learned the basics of both Xingyi Quan (or Hsing Yi) and Wing Chun. My personal fighting style is a bit of all three- mostly Xingyi, and a lot of Krav Maga, and a little bit of Wing Chun.

Like other posters here have said, it's not really a matter of "what style is best", but really "what style makes you feel most comfortable", and what works for you. I feel very comfortable with my mixed style and in the two surprise confrontations that I've encountered (one against a firearm and the other against an empty-handed opponent), my solution has worked well for me and I feel very comfortable and confident using it. I find that it's not terribly difficult to mix the styles because they all focus mainly on close combat (sometimes EXTREMELY close), they are all designed for maximum efficiency and economy of movement, and they mostly all use straight-line attacks. However, I can understand that it would be difficult (and IMO inadvisable) to combine something like Krav or Systema with TKD or Northern Wushu, because the latter two are too heavily focused on distance attacks, large maneuvers, and acrobatics to combine fluidly with the first two more "combatative" styles. The contrast is even more apparent with the extremely acrobatic arts, like capoeira.

So I'd say: look around to see what you like, try everything out, then see what's most comfortable and natural for you and train like hell.

Apropos the Keysi Fighting Method, Tom Cruise seems to use a VERY elementary "form" of KFM at the end of "Mission: Impossible III". Not very advanced, but my friend laughed when he saw it and said, "Ha! He's fighting with his elbows!" It seems that the vast majority of people are not familiar with elbow-centred combat.

I think at this point, considering I love TKD and karate, boxing, JJ and krav, I'll train hard in them all and let it come naturally, it seems to be working, my fighting skills have improved substantially in the last 6 monthes or so, since I got into krav, and my self defense skills and combatives ability is all much better, so I'll just keep doing whta I'm doing and let it follow it's own course.

HI everyone,
I have just read the comments which were posted under this thread. I am not a Krav Maga paractitioner. I am a Karateka. I jsut wanted to post my thoughts here. To my experience in karate I have notice that Karate has soooooo many techniques. But in the class room the instructor doesn't get the chance to teach ALL of them to the students. For example, some instructors leave out the breakfalls, grappling and many more like those. Even though U can find these mentioned techniques in karate, but as i said earlier don't get the chance to practice them. So, I believe a Martial Artiest should look around to other styles or systems. This way the artiest will get to learn some things which he/she is weak at. LIke what Bruse Lee said "take what works for U" so street is RANDOM (unpredictable) U can never predict what will happen on the street. So my point is that we have to have a very strong base like whatever be it karate, TKD or whatever then after that we can look into other systems and take what the artiest is missing.

LIke what my Sensei or Sifu says "if Ur a very good brike layer mainly. Then Carpentary work will come easy for U. Coz the base line is strong." Now looking into other styles will make Ur base style stronger not coz Ur mixing but U might have more understanding about a certian technique which will make U a stronger fighter.

I second that.

Thanks for the advice that makes sense.

I have to say I found your post a little unclear. I don't really follow what you mean when you say "you do it the x way", where x is a particular martial art. The sentence that gave me pause was this: "You just need to remember to be respectful to the system you are training under and do it that way during the class." Again, unclear. What assumptions are you making about the student? For the moment, I'll assume you mean a student skilled in multiple styles.

Having said all that, I have to disagree. One should not take any technique at face-value and add it to their repertoire. If someone is showing me a complicated knife disarm, I most certainly am not going to practice such a useless technique to appease an instructor. In the street, the assailant could care less what way you do something. By fighting in a Krav Maga way or Karate way, whatever those phrases mean, it sends a message that one is training for a particular set of rigid circumstances. Instead of training in a (insert martial art) way, the mindset should be something like training against other martial artists and low-life punks on the street who'll kill you where you stand.

I mean, let's say you're an experienced martial artist and you recently taken up a new art, maybe as recent as a couple of months. So far, the instructor has mostly taught complicated techniques useless for a street situation or some techniques that are similar to techniques in your current skill set. You've gotta ask yourself, "just what the heck am I still doing in this school?" Why would you want to adapt a technique that you essentially learned elsewhere? It's analogous to a me, a righty, walking into a writing school and the instructors strictly enforce left-hand instruction.

what if you only have access to a place that teaches certain techniques, like I only have regular access to a TKD dojang where we also do a little boxing and BJJ on hte side. everything else is from mauals and training with friends.

Well if that's the only place then you're limited. I think your concern is integrating your Krav Maga training, right?

Boxing and BJJ are good. TKD is TKD (I'll be nice). I can't speak for you. First, what is the TKD instruction like? Does the school do any MMA live training? If so, then that is good news. If it's mostly formulaic TKD, where you fight TKD guys using TKD techniques, well, I don't have a solution. As long as it's a healthy balance of the three arts, I think it's fine.

In the tae Kwon Do, on the side we train some BJJ and boxing, and sometimes a little MMA. It is live when we train these. We also do a lot of training for sparring and pointfighting working on combinations and defenses and things like that and partner training drills, as well as the formulaic stuff, and even that is individualized. Like, past white belt you make up your own ones steps, so mine are all completely combat oriented.

OK, the main thing is you're not limited one-dimensionally and entertain live training. Integrating techniques into your Krav Maga study is possible b/c of live training and drills that emphasize timing, footwork, and movement. I have my opinions about TKD, but I suppose they're irrelevent at this time. If there's an open mat day, for example, that's a reasonable oppurtunity to drill your Krav Maga.

I think the point he was trying to make, as I read it, was that if your in the class you follow as Instructed. If your in a Krav class you are there to learn and to train in Krav, not to perform your own techniques from another MA. That is just an example, it could apply to any other MA. One reason is that you are paying to learn a particular MA, so open your mind a learn it. If you know of a better way then that's fine, you can use that outside of the classroom. The second reason is, if your not following the direction from the Instructor, you are going to confuse the other students around you. The third reason is that it is direspectful to the Instructor. It's like saying, " I don't like doing it that way, I want to do it my own way!" You're not there to do it your way, if you want to do it your way, open your dojo or train at home. This is just a general reply for all. There are hundreds of ways to do everything, it's not a matter of wrong or right. Cross training is great for everyone. The important thing is to combine them on your own time.

I understand what you're saying. I have thought about it and I agree with you, but to a point. As a fighter, you only need a limited set of moves, but they must be instinctive such that you are comfortable with said moves to a T. Let's say you adapt a technique from one MA, practicing it 1000s of times in drills and adding it to your live training. Then you take another MA and the instructor wants you to do the same technique but a little differently, then what is your solution? You keep what is useful, and discard the rest, as Bruce Lee might say, right? In this case, that means you choose to adapt the new technique (which will probably take longer than the current one) and discard the old one or vice-versa. It makes no sense to have two of what is essentially the same. It's a waste of time. Furthermore, it's difficult (but possible I pre-suppose) to have two similar techniques coexist in your repertorie. It's like learning how to write with your left-hand as a righty. If the instructor teaches this new technique for a week and only revisits it, say, a year later, this is acceptable, imo. But if it's a fundamental technique, that's another story.

I remember learning a high block in Karate where my palm faces towards me (I make a fist, yes, but I'm trying to give a visual here). Then in TKD, they tried to correct me and told me the palm should face outward. It makes no sense to do it both ways. Ironically, I abandoned the technique all together from my skill set. The point is it's difficult to dumb down and check your ego at the door, so to speak, because you risk losing what you have learned elsewhere. You could be wasting years of training, learning similar techniques or, worse, learning skills that are useless in a fight. It's frustrating to fight TKD (or Karate or whatever) guys using TKD in a point match, when you could beat the guy if you were allowed to fight like you would in a real fight, using your grappling. It limits you as a MA because you could be spending more time doing live training; instead, you're practicing fighting in a way that presupposes the guy is coming after you in a TKD fashion.

Basically, I'm saying you have a choice. If you want to listen to the instructor to the T, as an experienced MA, you must understand that his teachings your skills could overlap or conflict. I left TKD because I realized it's the same as Karate (even the kata's are the same). I wasted my time and money learning an art essentially twice.
It depends on the situation, I suppose. If you're a striker and learned some sprawling techniques, and then took a grappling art that overlapped some with your sprawling, this is an acceptable sacrifice. It's a personal decision, I think. I love martial arts -- but it costs money and cannot be learned overnight. I'd rather make a conscientious decision on continuing training a certain MA to save money and time then suck it up and blindly continue training in the same MA and risk learning nothing new or nothing useful. I'm being general; I shouldn't generalize and I apologize that I do. It really is a personal decision. Beyond that, it's a balancing act. Don't take everything at face-value and don't close your eyes and cover your ears. There has to be some middle ground. Of course, I believe the student must be respectful. But that doesn't mean he can't be assertive and let the instructor know what's going through his head.

In short, what I say is personal and I'm not asking anyone to agree with me. If someone feels the same way, OK. If not, that's OK, too.

Training,training,training find what works best for you and use that. What works for one person may not work well for you,find what your most comfortable doing and perfect it.