Posted by: Ju_Jitsu_kid
Whats Krav maga? - 05/15/05 12:08 AM
Whats Krav maga, never heard of it, whats it like, whats it concentrate on, where did it come from? thanks in advanced
Whats Krav maga?
Posted by: butterfly
Re: Whats Krav maga? - 05/15/05 02:03 AM
JJK,
Israeli MA. Focused continual strikes to end the engagement...Strikes taken from many martial arts. What I have seen had some grappling, but was not the main emphasis. Does have weapon disarms.
Currently many places offering this art. Whether all are legitimate is another question.
-B
Israeli MA. Focused continual strikes to end the engagement...Strikes taken from many martial arts. What I have seen had some grappling, but was not the main emphasis. Does have weapon disarms.
Currently many places offering this art. Whether all are legitimate is another question.
-B
Posted by: Ju_Jitsu_kid
Re: Whats Krav maga? - 05/15/05 02:28 AM
Thank you been waiting a few hours ofr an answer to that figured it would be sooner lol
Posted by: SANCHIN31
Re: Whats Krav maga? - 05/15/05 02:32 AM
Google anyone?
Posted by: warriormonk
Re: Whats Krav maga? - 05/17/05 11:54 AM
The only thing i know about it is that israel military uses it.
Posted by: SANCHIN31
Re: Whats Krav maga? - 05/18/05 07:03 AM
Krav Maga
(krav-ma•ga) pronounced (kräv) (megä´) n. [Hebrew.] for “contact combat”, is the official self-defense and hand-to-hand combat system of Israel. Krav Maga is a very modern and practical style of self-defense that is the only style worldwide known as an art of self-defense and not as a martial art. Krav Maga isn't about being a tough guy, it's not about learning how to fight in a ring, it's about going home alive no matter what the situation. Krav Maga is a survival system dealing with personal safety issues in the context of defending against both armed and unarmed attackers. Krav Maga integrates instinct based self-defense tactics, with a strong curriculum that trains aggressiveness, fighting spirit, situational awareness, and verbal de-escalation of conflict. Its anti-terrorist roots make it aggressive by design, with only one objective, to eliminate the threat in the fastest way possible. It is considered a highly refined, street fighting system, designed to be utilized against street attacks, muggings, and sexual assaults. Krav Maga was developed for use in the street. When an individual is attacked in the street there is no way to know how many opponents or weapons you might encounter, therefore Krav Maga training is based on a system without rules. This Israeli system emerged in an environment where extreme violence was common has been continually refined and developed in light of actual modern combat and self-defense experiences. Krav Maga has received international recognition for its unique approach in bringing self defense to civilian, military, and law enforcement alike. The Krav Maga symbol consists of the Hebrew letters K and M surrounded by an open circle because the system is open to improvement by adding techniques, exercises, and training methods.
(krav-ma•ga) pronounced (kräv) (megä´) n. [Hebrew.] for “contact combat”, is the official self-defense and hand-to-hand combat system of Israel. Krav Maga is a very modern and practical style of self-defense that is the only style worldwide known as an art of self-defense and not as a martial art. Krav Maga isn't about being a tough guy, it's not about learning how to fight in a ring, it's about going home alive no matter what the situation. Krav Maga is a survival system dealing with personal safety issues in the context of defending against both armed and unarmed attackers. Krav Maga integrates instinct based self-defense tactics, with a strong curriculum that trains aggressiveness, fighting spirit, situational awareness, and verbal de-escalation of conflict. Its anti-terrorist roots make it aggressive by design, with only one objective, to eliminate the threat in the fastest way possible. It is considered a highly refined, street fighting system, designed to be utilized against street attacks, muggings, and sexual assaults. Krav Maga was developed for use in the street. When an individual is attacked in the street there is no way to know how many opponents or weapons you might encounter, therefore Krav Maga training is based on a system without rules. This Israeli system emerged in an environment where extreme violence was common has been continually refined and developed in light of actual modern combat and self-defense experiences. Krav Maga has received international recognition for its unique approach in bringing self defense to civilian, military, and law enforcement alike. The Krav Maga symbol consists of the Hebrew letters K and M surrounded by an open circle because the system is open to improvement by adding techniques, exercises, and training methods.
Posted by: RangerG
Re: Whats Krav maga? - 05/18/05 09:42 AM
Thanks SANCHIN!
You have saved countless folks from the painful Google process
You have saved countless folks from the painful Google process
Posted by: clammy joe
Re: Whats Krav maga? - 05/18/05 05:44 PM
As my instructor said, "You're not here to learn how to fight, you're here to learn how to beat the crap out of people."
Posted by: SANCHIN31
Re: Whats Krav maga? - 05/19/05 03:24 AM
Quote:
As my instructor said, "You're not here to learn how to fight, you're here to learn how to beat the crap out of people."
Neither one sounds like self defense to me.
Posted by: retzef
Re: Whats Krav maga? - 05/19/05 08:15 AM
My Instructors teach why it is important to "finish" a fight and the appropriate level of force. We are also taught to be aware of surroundings to avoid a fight and that the "Nike Defense" (running away) is the best option.
However, if you decide that the only option is to fight for your life then you must make a conscious decision to overwhelm the enemy (attacker, mugger rapist) in constant combat motion until the threat is diminished and you are out of harms way. After all, you don't want to get into a sparring match with a rapist or hit him so lightly that he can resume his attack.
However, if you decide that the only option is to fight for your life then you must make a conscious decision to overwhelm the enemy (attacker, mugger rapist) in constant combat motion until the threat is diminished and you are out of harms way. After all, you don't want to get into a sparring match with a rapist or hit him so lightly that he can resume his attack.
Posted by: clammy joe
Re: Whats Krav maga? - 05/19/05 01:12 PM
Quote:Quote:
As my instructor said, "You're not here to learn how to fight, you're here to learn how to beat the crap out of people."
Neither one sounds like self defense to me.
He simply means once you decide you must fight than you shouldn't stop till the attacker is on the ground and unable or unwilling to get up. He usually comments on this when people get tired or too fancy in class and aren't aggressive. We aren't training for a boxing match, we're learning to protect ourselves from violent assault.
Posted by: SANCHIN31
Re: Whats Krav maga? - 05/20/05 03:26 AM
Quote:
He simply means once you decide you must fight than you shouldn't stop till the attacker is on the ground and unable or unwilling to get up. He usually comments on this when people get tired or too fancy in class and aren't aggressive. We aren't training for a boxing match, we're learning to protect ourselves from violent assault.
I understand that and being aggressive until you are safe is good,but saying he's teaching you to "beat the crap out of people" sounds like someone looking for fights not avoiding them.
Posted by: globetrotter
Re: Whats Krav maga? - 05/20/05 08:06 AM
I think that this comes back to the roots of KM. in the IDF, any drill ends with "verifying the kill" - making sure that you have killed your target. KM isn't about bloodying somebodies nose, it is about taking them off active duty.
I don't think that is nessasarily bad. in a lot of dojos, and I can say this about the McDojo that I go to now, I am not sure that your average black belt could really deal with a fight on the street. students are often tought that if they do move A and move B then the fight will be over. in KM, you are tought to keep throwing firepower until you have evidence that your opponent is down.
I don't think that is nessasarily bad. in a lot of dojos, and I can say this about the McDojo that I go to now, I am not sure that your average black belt could really deal with a fight on the street. students are often tought that if they do move A and move B then the fight will be over. in KM, you are tought to keep throwing firepower until you have evidence that your opponent is down.
Posted by: RangerG
Re: Whats Krav maga? - 05/20/05 12:07 PM
Quote:
I think that this comes back to the roots of KM. in the IDF, any drill ends with "verifying the kill" - making sure that you have killed your target. KM isn't about bloodying somebodies nose, it is about taking them off active duty.
I don't think that is nessasarily bad. in a lot of dojos, and I can say this about the McDojo that I go to now, I am not sure that your average black belt could really deal with a fight on the street. students are often tought that if they do move A and move B then the fight will be over. in KM, you are tought to keep throwing firepower until you have evidence that your opponent is down.
I would respecfuly ask if the IDF Krav level of response is appropriate here in the U.S.?
The attitude at our dojo is to avoid the conflict if at all possible, If not, we respond with only enough force to escape the situation...with the exception of knife or firearm where the clear intent was to kill you.
Keep in mind however, if there is clear evidence that you could have disengaged and escaped, but you chose to kill your attacker..you will be the one in court facing the murder charge.
I do not wish to "beat the crap" out of anyone if I can avoid it. I only wish to protect myself and loved ones should I or they come under attack.
Has it not been the attitude of the old masters for one to respect others and avoid conflict? A fight is the last possible response, when all other methods of conflict avoidance have been exhausted.
I try to live in peace and harmony as much as possible. I can however understand the IDF attitude. If the U.S. becomes the subject of daily attacks, then I would agree the attitude here would require modification to meet that threat level.
Until that time, I will continue to smile and avoid fighting where possible.
Posted by: globetrotter
Re: Whats Krav maga? - 05/20/05 01:02 PM
excellent points, Ranger,
first, I am not sure that KM, as I was tought it, has a real place in the US system of martial arts. it may be too rough around the edges.
but, like you, I do not lok for fights. I haven't been in what could be called a personal street fight in my adult life. I will do pretty much everything that I can to avoid violence, inlcuding going a few steps farther than most, I believe. so, if I am in a fight, it is because somebody has attacked me. Now, I am a short fat old man. if somebody has attacked me, he probrably thought that he was going to be able to inflict violence on me, and get away. I am assuming that he will be younger than I, and he has attacked me for no good reason, leading me to the understanding that he is agressive. so I am going to throw what ever I can at him, I am not going to put him in a wrist hold and say "had enough?" and then step on his foot and say "had enough?" I will probrably try to break mulitple bones in his lower limbs, hit him in the eyes and throat and ear drums, get him on the ground and apply my nice heavy boots and my 280 pounds to what ever part of his anatomy comes handy. if, while I am doing that, I understand that he is out of commision, I will stop and run. If I think that there is any chance that when I start to run he will get up and come after me (on the assumption that he will run faster than me) I am going to make sure that that doesn't happen.
first, I am not sure that KM, as I was tought it, has a real place in the US system of martial arts. it may be too rough around the edges.
but, like you, I do not lok for fights. I haven't been in what could be called a personal street fight in my adult life. I will do pretty much everything that I can to avoid violence, inlcuding going a few steps farther than most, I believe. so, if I am in a fight, it is because somebody has attacked me. Now, I am a short fat old man. if somebody has attacked me, he probrably thought that he was going to be able to inflict violence on me, and get away. I am assuming that he will be younger than I, and he has attacked me for no good reason, leading me to the understanding that he is agressive. so I am going to throw what ever I can at him, I am not going to put him in a wrist hold and say "had enough?" and then step on his foot and say "had enough?" I will probrably try to break mulitple bones in his lower limbs, hit him in the eyes and throat and ear drums, get him on the ground and apply my nice heavy boots and my 280 pounds to what ever part of his anatomy comes handy. if, while I am doing that, I understand that he is out of commision, I will stop and run. If I think that there is any chance that when I start to run he will get up and come after me (on the assumption that he will run faster than me) I am going to make sure that that doesn't happen.
Posted by: retzef
Re: Whats Krav maga? - 05/20/05 02:25 PM
Its a self defense system..The McDojo's sell it as a MA.
I like the rough edges. As a former New York City resident and a manager in a high profile target area, I have to diasagree that KM use of force is not needed. A lot of situations in Israel are diffused by "regular" citizens, not uniformed or "on duty" personnel. KM teaches awareness and how to survive when the odds are not in your favor.
I assume multiple attackers instead of just one person attacking. I assume that the criminal has a back up weapon. I will not pick a fight but I will end one. I am much smaller than the average person and I damn well will not win a prolonged fight, so I must make quick and decisive decisions about protecting my life and whatever third party I am with.
I like the rough edges. As a former New York City resident and a manager in a high profile target area, I have to diasagree that KM use of force is not needed. A lot of situations in Israel are diffused by "regular" citizens, not uniformed or "on duty" personnel. KM teaches awareness and how to survive when the odds are not in your favor.
I assume multiple attackers instead of just one person attacking. I assume that the criminal has a back up weapon. I will not pick a fight but I will end one. I am much smaller than the average person and I damn well will not win a prolonged fight, so I must make quick and decisive decisions about protecting my life and whatever third party I am with.
Posted by: Plantman
Re: Whats Krav maga? - 05/20/05 09:06 PM
With all due respect, the LA Fitmess type places that are affilited with Kravmaga usa are the ones that sell it as a MA.
The israeli Krav maga instructors work out sometimes in cramped, dusty hot rooms with concrete floors, sort of like an old musty boxing gym and they do not sell it as a MA, but a self defense system. We are taught to walk away whenever possible, but if forced to fight, be prepared to go all out. If you can breathe you can fight.
The Krav Maga that has been watered down in the states consists of lots of aerobics, very little "technique" and a lot of fluff.
Do we do cardio aerobics,? Yes, briefly to loosen up. After that, it's all technique for the rest of the hour.
I have seen some people who have trained in the LA fitness type gyms for months that are far inferior to people of the same experience in the rat hole gyms.
My point is that there is s huge difference in the methods tought by different organizations. I am sure this exists in other disciplines as well.
I am a proud member and student of the Israeli Krav Maga Association.
.02
The israeli Krav maga instructors work out sometimes in cramped, dusty hot rooms with concrete floors, sort of like an old musty boxing gym and they do not sell it as a MA, but a self defense system. We are taught to walk away whenever possible, but if forced to fight, be prepared to go all out. If you can breathe you can fight.
The Krav Maga that has been watered down in the states consists of lots of aerobics, very little "technique" and a lot of fluff.
Do we do cardio aerobics,? Yes, briefly to loosen up. After that, it's all technique for the rest of the hour.
I have seen some people who have trained in the LA fitness type gyms for months that are far inferior to people of the same experience in the rat hole gyms.
My point is that there is s huge difference in the methods tought by different organizations. I am sure this exists in other disciplines as well.
I am a proud member and student of the Israeli Krav Maga Association.
.02
Posted by: kyokushinkai
Re: Whats Krav maga? - 05/27/05 08:12 PM
so basically I am in karate and im assuming that krav maga isnt a boundried thing and if i wanted to i would really only have to use my brain ( to know where to hit people..not that hard throat stomach etc.) and that dont stop because you hit them twice keep going until there is no chance of them harming you or endagering your life.. if the situation is right killing them is the thing you must do.. and that you should run when you can ( my teacher goes really far to make sure we dont fight and when we do fight he makes sure we didn't start it and that we used the appropriate level of force .. the reason he can check is because he teaches in the school I go to so he knows what happened). am i right or???
Posted by: retzef
Re: Whats Krav maga? - 05/27/05 09:31 PM
What exactly is your question?
Not to be rude or anything but I couldn't tell where the quote ended and the question began.
Not to be rude or anything but I couldn't tell where the quote ended and the question began.
Posted by: MA_Man
Re: Whats Krav maga? - 06/23/05 11:15 AM
Quote:
With all due respect, the LA Fitmess type places that are affilited with Kravmaga usa are the ones that sell it as a MA.
The israeli Krav maga instructors work out sometimes in cramped, dusty hot rooms with concrete floors, sort of like an old musty boxing gym and they do not sell it as a MA, but a self defense system. We are taught to walk away whenever possible, but if forced to fight, be prepared to go all out. If you can breathe you can fight.
The Krav Maga that has been watered down in the states consists of lots of aerobics, very little "technique" and a lot of fluff.
.02
I'm in the states. How can I find one of these places?
Posted by: Equis
Re: Whats Krav maga? - 06/23/05 06:31 PM
Quote:
I'm in the states. How can I find one of these places?
www.kravmaga.com
www.krav-maga.com
and google.
Posted by: MA_Man
Re: Whats Krav maga? - 06/25/05 11:56 PM
Those dont seem to be the "rat hole musty gym" type places the guy I quoted was talking about. Thats seems like the best type of place to learn it, so how can I find those types of places?
Posted by: RangerG
Re: Whats Krav maga? - 06/26/05 09:47 AM
Give me a State, and City, and I will try and help.
You will have to go check the dojo's out in person to see if they meet your standards.
You will have to go check the dojo's out in person to see if they meet your standards.
Posted by: Equis
Re: Whats Krav maga? - 06/27/05 01:48 AM
Quote:
Those dont seem to be the "rat hole musty gym" type places the guy I quoted was talking about. Thats seems like the best type of place to learn it, so how can I find those types of places?
You are not going to find an official Krav Maga rate hole training center. KM as it used by that name has to be licensed. I think there may be some rate hole ones but not many, and they may go by other names.
Posted by: Equis
Re: Whats Krav maga? - 06/27/05 02:36 AM
Quote:
Whats Krav maga, never heard of it, whats it like, whats it concentrate on, where did it come from? thanks in advanced
One more complete reply from a "dojo's" web-site ..
The Krav Maga symbol consists of the Hebrew letters K and M surrounded by an open circle because the system is open to improvement by adding techniques, exercises, and training methods.
"Good things can continue to flow into the system and flawed exercises can flow out."
-- Imi Lichtenfeld, the Grand Master of Krav Maga
Krav Maga is not a traditional martial art. It was developed in a hostile environment in which combatants could not devote many hours to hand to hand combat training. Therefore, the Krav Maga system was created to bring students to a high level of proficiency in a relatively short period of time. There are no forms (katas) or rules or set combinations as reactions to attacks. Instead, Krav Maga training focuses on teaching simple self-defense techniques which are specifically catered to reality based attack situations.
The art of Krav Maga is much more of a survival system dealing with personal safety issues. It is considered to be a modern, highly refined, street fighting system, designed to be used against armed and unarmed attackers. Krav Maga addresses a wide variety of aggressive acts which include punches, kicks, chokes, bearhugs, headlocks, grabs, as well as defenses against multiple attackers and assailants armed with a firearm, edged weapon, or blunt object.
Krav Maga training stresses the ability to react when surprised. Techniques and training methods emphasize the ability to function from a poor state of readiness, and to move from a passive to aggressive state immediately in order to fight back and survive. Training methods teach students to react effectively under stress and to move efficiently from a position of disadvantage to a position of advantage.
In addition to self-defense, Krav Maga teaches hand to hand combat. This is a more advanced and sophisticated phase, and shows how to neutralize an opponent quickly and effectively. It embodies elements related to the actual performance of the fight including tactics, feints, powerful combinations of different attacks, the psychological dimensions of the fight, and learning how to use the environment to your advantage.
Krav Maga includes specialized training methods to not only challenge students physically, but to also instill a special mental discipline meant to strengthen the spirit and to develop the ability to deal with violent confrontations under intense stress. Classes will also incorporate the self-defense techniques that they teach to law enforcement personnel.
Because of the Krav Maga's combat-orientation, there are no competitions or tournaments. Like other arts, Krav Maga issues colored belts to mark higher levels of expertise.
Posted by: MA_Man
Re: Whats Krav maga? - 06/27/05 06:01 PM
Quote:
Give me a State, and City, and I will try and help.
NJ
Edison/lakewood
Or near one of those two places.
Posted by: RangerG
Re: Whats Krav maga? - 06/27/05 06:50 PM
OK, let me check on it. It's a shame..your so close to the PA contingent...yet so far.
Posted by: RangerG
Re: Whats Krav maga? - 06/27/05 07:04 PM
http://www.challengermartialarts.com/schoolsNJ.htm
It's down the list of dojo's a bit..
http://www.kravmagainc.com/classes_other.html
http://www.contactcombat.com/contact.htm
http://www.kravmagacentralnj.com/index2.html
http://www.kravmaganj.com/
http://www.atablackbeltacademynj.com/kravmaga/
This is just a small list of what came up on Google.
You may have to drive a bit for class, but only you can decide if it is worth it to you.
Hope this helps!
Ranger
It's down the list of dojo's a bit..
http://www.kravmagainc.com/classes_other.html
http://www.contactcombat.com/contact.htm
http://www.kravmagacentralnj.com/index2.html
http://www.kravmaganj.com/
http://www.atablackbeltacademynj.com/kravmaga/
This is just a small list of what came up on Google.
You may have to drive a bit for class, but only you can decide if it is worth it to you.
Hope this helps!
Ranger
Posted by: Plantman
Re: Whats Krav maga? - 06/27/05 08:54 PM
If you look up David Kahn, he teaches in NJ and NYC.
FYI, he recently wrote a pretty popular book on the subject.
I train with the guy that trained hi, Yippeee!
FYI, he recently wrote a pretty popular book on the subject.
I train with the guy that trained hi, Yippeee!
Posted by: Winter
Re: Whats Krav maga? - 10/15/05 12:59 AM
To throw my 2 cents in on the question of whether KM has a place in the U.S. system of Martial Arts, I think it does. There were a few things overlooked in the string. This will be somewhat of a long post, my apologies in advance.
First: I’m not a fan of calling KM a self defense system. Its system of combat created by the IDF to enable those solders to be extremely effective in hand to hand situations. I believe it’s called a self defense system because no person, group, nation or military really looks at Hand to Hand as an effective combat form anymore, only a fall-back as well as for marketing reasons.
What I think is overlooked in this discussion is that:
1) It was developed for a Military Force.
2) Hand to Hand in a military conflict has to be brutal and quick because of the possibility of having multiple opponents.
3) All Israeli citizens, Male and Female, are required to serve a 2 or 3 (can’t remember exactly) year tour of duty in the IDF after high school.
The main thing that you have to remember is this; the key factor of how much force is used in a conflict come down to the judgment of the fighter. Someone practicing Aikido or BJJ could put someone into a simple arm lock to restrain someone or use the lock to break the arm. A Boxer could just hit someone in the face or could break a jaw, nose, or swell an eye shut. In my opinion when someone decides to train in a fighting art they become a Warrior. Following that path has many responsibilities and obligations. Avoid a fight if at all possible. If it’s unavoidable only use force necessary to incapacitate your opponent, that level of force has to be judged by the person in the engagement . A Warrior is responsible for policing his own actions, acting appropriate to a situation, and keeping a clear head in stressful situations. That’s what sets us apart from people that don’t study Martial Arts, not the ability to fight. A KM practitioner, while delivering the fast paced strikes they’ve been trained for, should be able to do so with a clear head and the ability to stop when the opponent has been subdued appropriate to the situation, not attack someone with the wild abandon of a rabid bear mauling someone.
I don’t mean to come of as “Preachy”, “High Handed”, or on a Soap Box. But it seems that some had been condemning this training, like it was going to create people that would go into a frenzy and kill while fighting. This is only my opinion, I hope some of you will consider it, and I hope I didn’t offend anyone.
First: I’m not a fan of calling KM a self defense system. Its system of combat created by the IDF to enable those solders to be extremely effective in hand to hand situations. I believe it’s called a self defense system because no person, group, nation or military really looks at Hand to Hand as an effective combat form anymore, only a fall-back as well as for marketing reasons.
What I think is overlooked in this discussion is that:
1) It was developed for a Military Force.
2) Hand to Hand in a military conflict has to be brutal and quick because of the possibility of having multiple opponents.
3) All Israeli citizens, Male and Female, are required to serve a 2 or 3 (can’t remember exactly) year tour of duty in the IDF after high school.
The main thing that you have to remember is this; the key factor of how much force is used in a conflict come down to the judgment of the fighter. Someone practicing Aikido or BJJ could put someone into a simple arm lock to restrain someone or use the lock to break the arm. A Boxer could just hit someone in the face or could break a jaw, nose, or swell an eye shut. In my opinion when someone decides to train in a fighting art they become a Warrior. Following that path has many responsibilities and obligations. Avoid a fight if at all possible. If it’s unavoidable only use force necessary to incapacitate your opponent, that level of force has to be judged by the person in the engagement . A Warrior is responsible for policing his own actions, acting appropriate to a situation, and keeping a clear head in stressful situations. That’s what sets us apart from people that don’t study Martial Arts, not the ability to fight. A KM practitioner, while delivering the fast paced strikes they’ve been trained for, should be able to do so with a clear head and the ability to stop when the opponent has been subdued appropriate to the situation, not attack someone with the wild abandon of a rabid bear mauling someone.
I don’t mean to come of as “Preachy”, “High Handed”, or on a Soap Box. But it seems that some had been condemning this training, like it was going to create people that would go into a frenzy and kill while fighting. This is only my opinion, I hope some of you will consider it, and I hope I didn’t offend anyone.
Posted by: Tolyn1007
Re: Whats Krav maga? - 10/15/05 01:36 PM
A little more on the history and development of Krav Maga. Imi Lichtenfeld grew up in Germany during the rise of Nazism. His father owned a gym and he was already and accomplished gymnist and boxer. As Nazi persecution against Jews became more prevalent, he began putting together a system of self-defense to teach others so that they could protect themselves from attacks against Nazi youth gangs. Because of the times, he didn't have years to teach people how to defend themselves and the system was developed to be simple and effective. It took instinctive responses (like instinctively raising your hands to your throat if someone is choking you) and turned them into trained responses (like the pluck used in a basic choke defense). It was named Krav Maga (Hebrew for Contact Combat). When Israel was formed, the Israeli military adopted the system for their use. KM relies on a fast, aggressive and decisive counter-attacks to any attack so that when you disengage your attacker isn't going to get up and come back at you a second time.
It's been my opinion that the physical conditioning portion of Krav Maga is vital to the overall system. The minimum level of cardio fitness you should be in is to be able to fight off multiple attackers for at least 90 seconds (for us, that's the average time it takes to get assistance, if you're by yourself then you're going to need longer). That doesn't seem like a lot of time but we run a drill called bull-in-the-ring where the student has to fend off multiple attackers for 90 seconds and it isn't often that I have one of them not be huffing and puffing in the end. I want my people to go home to their families at the end of their shifts so I spend at least 30 minutes of a two hour class working on cardio plus various stress drills throughout to keep me entertained...oh, I mean keep them engaged in the class. I think the problem with the LA style KM schools is that they try and market KM like you would Tae Bo (or whatever the hell that cardio kickboxing fad was called) with a self-defense element and that waters it down.
I do think that the "aggresiveness" of the counter-attacks in KM is appropriate to the US today. The techniques being taught are used for self-defense, more often then not when someone is using a level of force against you that is intended to cause either great bodily injury or death. As long as you aren't the primary agressor (meaning you didn't start the fight) then in most states, you are well within your rights to defend yourself.
I know some of that was repeat info but I wanted to chime in.
It's been my opinion that the physical conditioning portion of Krav Maga is vital to the overall system. The minimum level of cardio fitness you should be in is to be able to fight off multiple attackers for at least 90 seconds (for us, that's the average time it takes to get assistance, if you're by yourself then you're going to need longer). That doesn't seem like a lot of time but we run a drill called bull-in-the-ring where the student has to fend off multiple attackers for 90 seconds and it isn't often that I have one of them not be huffing and puffing in the end. I want my people to go home to their families at the end of their shifts so I spend at least 30 minutes of a two hour class working on cardio plus various stress drills throughout to keep me entertained...oh, I mean keep them engaged in the class.
I think the problem with the LA style KM schools is that they try and market KM like you would Tae Bo (or whatever the hell that cardio kickboxing fad was called) with a self-defense element and that waters it down. I do think that the "aggresiveness" of the counter-attacks in KM is appropriate to the US today. The techniques being taught are used for self-defense, more often then not when someone is using a level of force against you that is intended to cause either great bodily injury or death. As long as you aren't the primary agressor (meaning you didn't start the fight) then in most states, you are well within your rights to defend yourself.
I know some of that was repeat info but I wanted to chime in.
Posted by: retzef
Re: Whats Krav maga? - 10/15/05 04:11 PM
Quote:
I think the problem with the LA style KM schools is that they try and market KM like you would Tae Bo (or whatever the hell that cardio kickboxing fad was called) with a self-defense element and that waters it down.
I do think that the "aggresiveness" of the counter-attacks in KM is appropriate to the US today. The techniques being taught are used for self-defense, more often then not when someone is using a level of force against you that is intended to cause either great bodily injury or death. As long as you aren't the primary agressor (meaning you didn't start the fight) then in most states, you are well within your rights to defend yourself.
I know some of that was repeat info but I wanted to chime in.
Excellent point. I have moved around the US this year and I have been so dissappointed in the LA licensees. I don't mind them licensing KM but they make it so difficult for those of us trained in Israel or those of us trained by instructors who trained in Israel. It seems that they are more worried that talented Israeli KM Black Belts are going to take their money rather than worry about following up on the watered down version of KM being taught by a large # of their licensees. Notice I said large # and not all. There are a small handful of schools and instructors that I consider excellent teachers and would train with if I lived in their neighborhood.
Posted by: ShikataGaNai
Re: Whats Krav maga? - 10/15/05 05:25 PM
are there that many schools teaching KM in LA? the only one i've heard of is the main one started by Darren Levine - as far as i know the only american to be personally given a grandmaster rank by lichtenfeld. my instructors went through his course to get their certificates. i'm kind of thinking about doing the same thing (way down the line), but i think i'd prefer the IKMf camp in netanya.
this is all j.lo's fault, isn't it???
this is all j.lo's fault, isn't it???
Posted by: retzef
Re: Whats Krav maga? - 10/16/05 06:55 AM
Quote:
are there that many schools teaching KM in LA? the only one i've heard of is the main one started by Darren Levine - as far as i know the only american to be personally given a grandmaster rank by lichtenfeld. my instructors went through his course to get their certificates. i'm kind of thinking about doing the same thing (way down the line), but i think i'd prefer the IKMf camp in netanya.
this is all j.lo's fault, isn't it???
Darren Levine is a great instructor and has a special "founders diploma" because of his special contribution to increasing awareness of KM. He is the Chief instructor of KMAA (america). There are several people here in North America that are equal or better than him in their KM training. He is not a "Grandmaster", to my knowledge the only ones are Hiam Gidon (IKMA) and Eyal Yanilov(IKMF) and the late Eli Avikgor(spelling error probably)((Krav Magen).
There are Israelis teaching KM throughout the US and LA too but it will take some effort to find the schools because Darren's organization copyrighted the name Krav Maga and KM instructors trained abroad get sued when they use the name KM in the US.
Training in Netanya with the IKMA or IKMF is an experience of a lifetime. ( I don't have any knowledge of how the other organizations run there training in Netanya)
Posted by: Tolyn1007
Re: Whats Krav maga? - 10/16/05 12:20 PM
Mr. Levine is an excellent teacher. When I say LA style I'm not talking about his training center which just happens to be located in LA. I'm referring to those schools that focus more on appearance and marketing then they do instruction and self-defense. The Hollywood mentality where the illusion is more important then the actual content.
I'm referring to those schools that focus more on appearance and marketing then they do instruction and self-defense. The Hollywood mentality where the illusion is more important then the actual content.
Posted by: ShikataGaNai
Re: Whats Krav maga? - 10/16/05 08:28 PM
whoops, yeah i really put my foot in my mouth with the "grandmaster" thing. i read the history and development of krav so long ago, i've forgotten many of the details and facts. i honestly am pretty disenchanted with the whole liscensing thing. my school does it, but i've heard them express greivances about it - mainly when it comes to fees vs. support. they do an excellent job teaching krav, sifu kat is truly an amazing and accomplished individual. i wish they were allowed to teach without being bound to this organization (no disrespect to mr. levine's teachings). it is truly unfortunate these days that business so often compromises education, martial or otherwise.