I want to address my comments about your age which you have taken as being rude. That’s not how they were intended so maybe a little clarification is needed. My point was i understand the mentality towards many things, in this case the martial arts specifically, that many teens have. I wasn't referring to you specifically so no i'm not picking on you. A simple "fact of life" as you say is that younger people tend to think they have things all figured out and those who are older with more experience just don't understand their point of view or insights. What you figure out as you get older and gain more experience is that you knew a lot less than you thought. There is nothing wrong with this, it's a natural course of life and is expected. A teen’s general reaction to someone challenging their beliefs is to take offense or rebel against them which is why i made the comment about you getting mad, flying off the handle and so on. Because it's typical, it's not always the case but it is a majority of the time.
Let’s keep in mind now that i didn't arbitrarily pick this topic to reply to. You sought me out, asked me to look at your posts and asked for my input. Were you looking for some kind of validation? For you to have messaged me with this request i would be led to believe that you at least read some of my previous posts on this subject so you should have had an idea of how i would react. You want truth about ninjutsu, i give it to you. Hopefully after reading this post you will have a better understanding of what i'm saying and where i see the disconnect in your logic on some issues.
I’ll start with assumptions and rudeness. You say it’s rude of me to state that you are a teen with little to no experience. What about your statements about the Bujinkan, Genbukan and other systems of ninjutsu with documented proof of their ninjutsu lineage? You don’t think it’s rude to state as a matter of fact that these schools are NOT ninjutsu simply because they don’t fit your definition? Yet you claim to study “ninjutsu” with out knowing the name, history or origins of your art? In your belief only the “pure” form of the art should be called ninjutsu leaving out the Bujinkan and others but yet the art you practice (with no known information of how it’s connected to ninjutsu) can be?
Now let’s look at your belief of what ninjutsu is. You reference a couple of documents I’m familiar with and I understand how you may think “real” or “pure” ninjutsu is or should be. But if you’re basing your belief on say the bansenshukai then you are never going to find “real” ninjutsu. How do you know the methods in this text are of the pure art? Do you honestly believe the training techniques of Togakure didn’t change between the 1100’s when it was developed and 1676 when the text was written? Which would be the “pure” art? The original from the 1100’s or the modified form from the late 1600’s? You see less time has elapsed from the time this text was written to today than between the origin of Togakure and the time it was written. Did you know the Genbukan also reference this text as does the Bujinkand? Are you seeing my point here? No art ever stays exactly the same even with koryu, there is always some deviation.
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I do know about the sakki test but that is not a common taught thing to all students until they are up in level and still, one drop in a bucket as the saying goes.
Not a common taught thing? At which point do you believe they start preparing one for the Sakki test? At 3rd dan? 4th dan? Perhaps some start feeding you pieces early on but don’t let on that they are until later? Maybe some feel you need to acquire certain “physical” basics before moving on to something more advanced? Did you know that in Kamiyama ninjutsu (a Bujinkan derivative) that the Sakki test is performed at every dan level, not just Godan? Like I said, you have made your own assumptions and based them off of very little knowledge. You have wedged this belief between you and the Bujinkan and you only know what you have seen or been told about a hand full of schools. I’ll tell you a secret, there are no structured rank guidelines in the Bujinkan prior to Godan. A shidoshi may rank and instruct their students in any manner they please provided they are prepared for Godan when they say they are. The only real constant are the annual themes, these are mostly for the participants of Taikai so everyone is working roughly on the same thing when they meet. Why do schools have to START with the “cool” stuff to be “pure”? Just like any art you need to learn the physical mechanics (basics) in order to have the proper foundation to build on.
As for the training methods? How often to you expect to need to enter a building via an underwater entrance? What in your daily life will put you in a situation to evade attackers by walking under water? Yes these things were a part of ninjutsu in the 1600s, because at the time there was a need for them. Today there is no need for much of that sort of training. Contrary to your beliefs a lot of these things are still discussed in the Kans, they just don’t receive the attention they did when such skill were actually needed. Today there are other ways, safer ways, of increasing your endurance and lung capacity without the danger of drowning. If you are in a job that requires you to have such skills then you will be taught them. There is a lot of training in BUDs for “drown proofing” because they need it. Like any other art ninjutsu has evolved into the current arts seen today in the form of Togakure-ryu Ninpo Happo Biken, Gyokushi-ryu Ninpo Happo Biken and Kumogakure-ryu Ninpo Happo Biken. Historian data, museum artifacts and old texts? You have the same information I have, the issue is more with your interpretation or your “assumption” of what ninjutsu should be. I’m familiar with the Basenshukai and ninpiden, I’ve been to Iga Ueno and visited the ninja museum and I’ve spoken with several historians and have done quite a bit of research of my own. My first exposure to the art was when I was about your age in the late 80s early 90s. It means nothing if you don’t understand the difference between what was and what is. That is what ninjutsu was, not anymore. If you want to waste time on out dated training methods to obtain skills that are neither needed or practical that’s fine. My preference is to focus on training that will serve more practical needs while maintaining an understanding of the old ways for their historical value.
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Yes, it is an opinion and again, I have my right to it I am not forcing you to follow me here.
An opinion is one thing but you haven’t been voicing an opinion, you have been making statements of “fact”.
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I figured I would post the guidelines because some are for etiquette that does apply to Ninjutsu, even though Bujinkan is NOT Ninjutsu, but rather Budo Taijutsu. Below are the guidelines as described by Masaaki Hatsumi.
How does this come across as opinion? Again don’t you see how disrespectful it is to Hatsumi, Manaka, Tanemura and all the other practitioners of these arts to lay such a claim on them with out really knowing anything about the systems? Yes this does involve the Genbukan and Jinenkan since both were students of Hatsumi and both incorporate the same 3, the only legit 3, forms of ninjutsu in their system. Yes I fully understand about your “ninja misconceptions” post and knew you didn’t write the entire thing but it would appear you share the same belief since the statement about the various Kans mirrored your statements of the Bujinkan.
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My instructor is much older than I am and I would thank you not to say such things to insult people you have not met.
How was that “insulting”? I didn’t say your instructor was a teen with no experience. I said it’s most likely that he is a teen with little more experience than you. This is derived from your lack of either ability or refusal to answer basic questions about your ninjutsu training. On the topic of teaching and student base, your assumptions are only partially true and depend on the material being covered and the desired out come. I’ve done my time as an instructor for both the martial arts and the Navy and have been through the Navy’s instructor training course. There are benefits and downfalls on both sides of the coin. A good instructor can handle a larger student base of 20-25 students and still be able to provide one on one support for those students. In a competitive based learning environment like the martial arts it’s better in some cases to have more students in order to learn to apply your skills to a larger variety of people.
Honestly if you want to believe only elephants in pink tutus can practice ninjutsu its fine. But eventually you will see my point and understand that it’s not all about “what they did in the old days”. No matter how hard you try you will never be a “ninja”, they don’t exist anymore. The closest you will ever come is to join the CIA or military spec warfare, but training in the “pure” way isn’t going to make you a ninja. Just as there are no more Samurai and never will be. Again if you’re not under the instruction of a legitimate ninjutsu instructor then you are just playing ninja. But please if you could ask your instructor specifically where his art came from. I would love to know.
I prefer to make my own weapons though. Even you, with a few power tools like most people have around the house (metal cutting saw or even a drill finished off with a hacksaw and a file) can make a better production than they do. But you would need to find a decent piece of steel if you intend to heat treat it, but that is only if you know what you are doing.
laf!
