a view on Ninjitsu

My brother in law has a freind who has studied Ninjitsu for about 6 months he was telling me some stuff about it how good it is and stuff like that.

can any of you out there give me an insight of ninjitsu? is it affective? all i know it was big in the 80's, guys wearing monkey suits and all the ninja movies, and the only time i have seen ninjitsu in action was in UFC 3 were this ninjitsu fighter was up against Pat Smith the kickboxer and i must say i thought the Ninja would of won, but he got smashed.

so can anyone out prove to me how effective ninjitsu really is? we don't live in feudal japan anymore when men walked around with swords and weapons.

Hmmmm....thought this was a JKD forum [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

Check on the martial arts talk forum for threads on ninjutsu.

BTW, Steve Jennum (ninjutsu, trained with Robert Bussey) won several matches in the early UFC's.

Im sure that there are better threads that you can find this info but I will let it stay for now. However, be prepared to possibly be bashed for it. A lot of guys here are too serious.

Look up Jack Hoban if you want authentic Ninja practice. He was the only westerner to be apptoved to teach it. As far as I know he is still the only one.

If its practiced in the manner that he did, sure. Fine art. However, it isnt a direct fighting art. It has mch more to do with subterfuge and deception.

yes i know this is a jkd forum, thats why i wanted to know what the kjd comunity thought about it, and if anyone have come across it.

Chen -

As far as I know, Stephen K. Hayes, Robert Bussey and Rich VanDonk were also licensed to teach from Dr. Hatsumi, though I am unclear on their current status.

laf7773(?) probably knows more.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MattJ:
Chen -

As far as I know, Stephen K. Hayes, Robert Bussey and Rich VanDonk were also licensed to teach from Dr. Hatsumi, though I am unclear on their current status.

laf7773(?) probably knows more.[/QUOTE]

I knew the name sounded familiar so I looked around and I have heard some good things from other artists about Stephen Hayes

all i know it was big in the 80's, guys wearing monkey suits and all the ninja movies


The ninja boom of the 80's was a bunch of crap and gave ninjutsu a bad name.


so can anyone out prove to me how effective ninjitsu really is?


I can't prove anything, but I believe the art can be effective for the street if you train in an alive manner with a legit instructor (a lot of the techniques aren't good for sport fighting as they are against the rules). The problem being that there aren't many legit ninjutsu schools around, and I don't think most of them train hard, with a lot of sparring.

Look up Jack Hoban if you want authentic Ninja practice. He was the only westerner to be apptoved to teach it. As far as I know he is still the only one.


There are actually a few Americans who go to train with Masaaki Hatsumi in Japan and are allowed to teach. Bill Atkins is one of them that wasn't mentioned.

ShawnC -

Yes, I forgot to mention Bud Malmstrom, too.

There was a lot of crap in the ninja boom, but that was what got me started! (1984)

*sound of death by embarassment*

It was UFC 2 where the guy that did American Ninjutsu got owned. He actually has a school near me. After he lost that fight the system changed a lot. They started working a lot more on takedowns and grappling. American Ninjutsu was started by Robert Bussey and is pretty much just a Christian version of Ninjutsu. I took it for a good while and we did all sorts of stuff. Stand up, ground (mostly ground), weapons, and stealth. They even do ninja camps. It is overall good stuff, I just didn't really want to do weapons and stealth stuff anymore and my place was kind of slacking off on everything else.

so is stealth really nesecery in this day and age, i look at weapons as more of an art form. i mean do we walk around the streets with a katana, i guess each to there own, i just cant take ninjitsu seriously. and there you said it after he lost the fight he had to change his way of fighting, introduce new ideas, break away from tradition.

I think stealth is important to any martial artist. Why? One day you will meet your match. It may be one guy or ten. If you intend to get away you better be slippery.

Also, what if late at night a guy with a flashlight breaks into your house and he has a gun? Theres still merit for it.

That weapon fighting and stealth tecniques as well as other forms of moving and fighting hold great value. What other school teaches the old true budo of the ancient Japan to such an extent? The value is historical and cultural. Soke Masaaki Hatsumi was the only pupil of Sensei Takamatsu, the last combat ninja, who is said to be the last practicioner of many of the Japanese war arts. And now those arts are being taught worldwide giving us a glimpse of what the systems of the ancient have been like.

Studying (I haven't practiced it myself) this Bujinkan Taijutsu (including some ninjutsu) I've found out that it's core is much deeper than just self defence. Read what the Soke Masaaki Hatsumi thinks in some of the interviews published in the web and you know what I mean.

I don't know how the system is applied in the streets and don't know how they apply that or do they even train for those situations. Now the JKD, I suppose, stresses that in particular. But it may be that in bujinkan they don't since the system holds so much depth and aspects within itself which are valuable and philosophical on their own. On the other hand, if they didn't I suppose they would say that out loud and a black belt had never entered UFC.

I saw that UFC-video five years ago. I thought it was a dumb move for the Taijutsu guy to rush on a guy bigger than himself like that. It's hard to evaluate the system according to that short scene. It would have been nice to see his first mach where he was successful.

[This message has been edited by brotherboney (edited 02-23-2005).]

i guess if i needed anyone assassinated i would call on the assassin sect.

Just a thought on stealth; The idea of blending in with your surrroundings can be much larger, and much more subtle than just hiding in the bushes or some such nonsense.
Go to the clubs on any friday/saturday night. You'll see guys here dressed in their flashiest clothes, with their biggest gold chains and watches and most expensive shoes. Theyre trying to impress the girls. But when these guys leave, if they didnt come and go with a group, its not uncommon that they get robbed by the time they get to their cars.

Why?

First because they stood out. They wanted attention. Not only that, but they werent subtle in their means of attaining it.
Then they were appealing. Someone looked at that fat chain and fresh pair of kicks and said "bingo"

Take our theoretical ninja for counterpoint.
Lets say that, for whatever reasons, he went to the same club, on the same night. Lets say that he also wouldnt mind getting the attentions of an interesting member of the opposite sex. Because for me, it would be more fun than saying that he wanted the attention of someone of the same sex.

So ok, the difference between our young Mr Flash and our badass shinobi dude, is that one is living his life in a helter skelter, whither thou wilt fashion. And one is, well he's a ninja. His life is strategic. He applies the art of stealth to all of his comings and goings. So he'll probably present himself in a manner that is outwardly , but one that is more function than face. His shoes are what protect his feet from the glass and rocks on the ground. His watch is what he uses to keep track of time. He might have a drink or two, cause thats what you do in a club, but he's not going to get drunk. Its hard to be indescreet when you're tripping over everybody right?

Basically, he's not going to project a "hey look at me" image. If he WANTS you to look at him, he will find a way to get your attention. Otherwise....

Anyways, I'm not a ninja and i dont study ninjutsu. Im just a guy who likes the martial arts, and enjoys posting long, silly threads on internet forums.


[This message has been edited by ChooseURbattles (edited 02-24-2005).]

Ninjitsu is the study of invisibility and stealth. THe fighting art of the ninja was called taijutsu. Modern schools who train ninjitsu are are mostly commercial places who sell the mystique of the ninja. THe truth is, the ninja disappeared a long time ago and not a lot is known about their training methods. Schools that call what they teach 'ninjutsu' today are probably just teaching jujitsu/karate.

Buddhabong, I'm sorry but you're way off the mark here. Ninjutsu, as taught by the Soke and Shidoshi's of the Bujinkan is MUCH more than invisibility and stealth. However, you are correct in that they are core skills that give the art it's definition as opposed to Bushido. It's the art of survival of understanding the universe, of dealing with danger and yes, also of stealth. And as chooseurbattles said it so well, stealth has many, many modern day applications. Also, Taijutsu is the unarmed part of combat skills in Ninjutsu, not the entire art of combat. It is very true that Samurai no longer roam the streets or fight for control of provinces whilst destroying innocent villages in their wake. However, an authentic Ninpo school will teach you a thousand wonderful ways to apply the ancient skills and beliefs to modern day survival and safety. If I were confronted by an angry mob of doped up gang members on a city street, I would want to be able to "disappear" too. That being said, I will acknowledge that JKD is also a fine art in my opinion and it is just as worthy in a tourney ring or in the street. Chen Zen also brings up excellent points. Stealth has very real applications in todays violent world, like house break-ins or attempted abductions (escape and evasion is what the Air Force survival school calls it, and Navy SEALS use stealth more than there firearms) and yes, nobody walks into a wal-mart with a katana looking to duel the town-champ, however, what you learn with the katana or Ninja-Ken can be very easily translated to a baseball bat defense against a home invasion or a pool cue against a bar room brawl. Get it?

[This message has been edited by Cavscout (edited 02-28-2005).]

[This message has been edited by Cavscout (edited 02-28-2005).]