Figured out JKD

I've got it now.

JKD can be learned, but it can't be taught.

I was trying to figure out how to teach something like JKD. You have to have something to teach. Then you have to have some way to organize what you have.

But when you start organizing it, a heirarchal system develops. Enter politics, and related political BS. I'm guessing that was what caused Bruce Lee to shut down his JKD schools.

So how does one teach what is really just experience?

Finally someone who is on the right track. JKD is not a system you can call it a philisophy or concept. JKD just is as Lee said " You cant teach someone to be free, You simply are free" Its those who realize that freedom that master themselves and their art Most masters in any art once they get into the mental side of it their limitations dissappear, thats when you really start learning. Each person has their own Jkd from the very beginning of training, its those that see it that go far and master their art.

[This message has been edited by AgenT (edited 01-04-2005).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MattJ:
I've got it now.

JKD can be learned, but it can't be taught.[/QUOTE]

JKD is discovered through experiencing the 'what is' (fighting/sparring).

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MattJ:

I was trying to figure out how to teach something like JKD. You have to have something to teach. Then you have to have some way to organize what you have.

But when you start organizing it, a heirarchal system develops. Enter politics, and related political BS. I'm guessing that was what caused Bruce Lee to shut down his JKD schools. [/QUOTE]

BINGO! Couldn't have said it better myself.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MattJ:

So how does one teach what is really just experience?[/QUOTE]

By providing the tools that will allow people to "experience combat". Obviously, this "combat" takes place in the gym/dojo and, is alive. Sparring is the primary vehicle. Thus, you have to prepare your students to put the pads and protection on, etc., and go "all out" against each other.

You have to as closely as possible, replicate the situations of real fighting. In other words, you have to fight, in order to learn HOW to fight (discovering the "truth in combat" - which is the primary aim of JKD to begin with).


-John

I think I get the sparring part.

But how/when do you communicate the actual techniques involved (mount position,leg kicks, etc)?

"Ok, first lesson." *POW* "Move faster!"

Are they taught in some kind of order? Whatever is being taught that night? Mix different skill levels?

Sorry, I am not trying to steal your curriculum, just trying to get a general idea.

Thanks anyway.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MattJ:
I think I get the sparring part.

But how/when do you communicate the actual techniques involved (mount position,leg kicks, etc)?

"Ok, first lesson." *POW* "Move faster!"[/QUOTE]

Well, you teach them as you would any other way. JKD isn'ta "sudden epiphany" of sorts. Its what you discover over the long haul through you training.

In other words, it's not all sparring. You have to teach and to learn as well.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MattJ:

Are they taught in some kind of order? Whatever is being taught that night? Mix different skill levels? [/QUOTE]

If a beginner comes into the gym and has never boxed before or anything like that, the last thing I'm going to do is have him spar all out.

He's got to learn the fundamentals of good defense and good offense so that he CAN train (spar), just like with anything else.

You come into classes and learn technique. Once you've learned technique, you can spar it.

Sparring does not always simply mean squaring off and going at it. Sparring is and always has been for learning purposes. There must be some objectives.

Sparring can also mean isolation drilling.

I'll give you an example. Suppose you're wanting to work on developing your ability to maintain the guard (preventing someone from passing your guard).

What you might do is, grab your partner and have him start within your guard. Have him work to try and pass while you try and defend the pass, hit submissions or sweeps. If you hit a submission or sweep (or disengage, etc), start right back from where you started and go again. This is isolation sparring. You can do ANYTHING in that manner to perfect skill in certain areas.

Is that "alive"? Sure it is, and it's a great training method. You're able to achieve real experience in this manner.

Want to make it more "street" realistic? Have the guy throw strikes and try foul tactics. This means however that you can do the same to him! You just have to train smart but in so doing, you're still using sparring to train and drill.

Not only that, it's FUN!!!!!!!


Hope that answered the question.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MattJ:

Sorry, I am not trying to steal your curriculum, just trying to get a general idea.

Thanks anyway.[/QUOTE]

NO!!!! Go right ahead and steal whatever you'd like, lol! It's all about learning, training and growing as fighters and martial artists!

I wish you were here locally and you could stop in sometime and we could demonstrate these ideas in person.

If you have ANY other questions, please fire away!


Cheers!

-John

Thanks for the help, bro.

I understand you are in NC?

The wife and I vacaction in the outer banks and wilmington occasionally. Although we are too poor this year, I would like to stop by your gym on the way down sometime...er, if she will let me, that is! DOH!!


I will give you a heads up if I get in the area.

HOLY S!!!! I just looked at a map. Did not realize Winston/Salem was that far away.

Might have to make a special trip for that
one.....not out of the question, though.

Not shizzle up here in PA. Oh well. At least there is the internet.

[This message has been edited by MattJ (edited 01-06-2005).]

JKD can be learned, but it can't be taught.

Not true. There are many qualified instructors, but JKD is not meant for every student.

You have to have something to teach. Then you have to have some way to organize what you have.

Agreed, that's the way it was done before Bruce Lee died.

But when you start organizing it, a heirarchal system develops. Enter politics, and related political BS. I'm guessing that was what caused Bruce Lee to shut down his JKD schools.

Right, that happens. But, the reason Bruce shut down only one of his schools, the Chinatown school, is that he wasn't happy with the way Inosanto was running it at that time. Lee didn't shut down the Seattle or Oakland schools.

well my belive this is what i teach my students is to be your self develop your own way of fighting. because we have all diffrent attributes some might be fat or skinny tall short whatever, i think jkd is a way of life you see bruce broke away from wc i'd say it didn't work for him in sortan situations so he had to brake away from tradition,and start learning other ways of fighting and excercise(weights cardio) yes everybody has to start somewhere learn how to do proper footwork how to gaurd how to grapple, proper punching.

i started out with taekwondo, like i tell people the only thing i got out of it was my kicking that hepled me, in the kickboxing ring my kicks help me allot my punches slowly got there, to be a better fighter i had to break away from it and learn how to use my other tools better. so i joind a boxing gym, then did some grappling.

my school is not based on any style a punch is a punch a kick is a kick a take down is a take down, for example early days of the ufc did ken shamrock learn any kind of bjj did royce gracie learn any shoot fighting yet they both did the same technique when it came down to a take down the only thing royce did was faint with a kick then take down.(from the fights that i'd seen)in the end ken shamrock had to come up with a difrent strategy to deal with royce.

there all these difrent stories of bruce did this bruce did that who cares who gives a **** he's the only man who opend his eyes to the truth. jkd is about expressing ones self a philosiphy break away from that circle you in and don't blinded by karate is the only way boxing is the only way. don't care what people say you must cross-train to be a better fighter.

'I was trying to figure out how to teach something like JKD. You have to have something to teach. Then you have to have some way to organize what you have.
But when you start organizing it, a heirarchal system develops. Enter politics, and related political BS. I'm guessing that was what caused Bruce Lee to shut down his JKD schools.'

You are correct, as Lee had only given his blessing to Dan Inosanto to continue teaching JKD as he would not prostitute it.
JKD's instructors have come up with their own doctrines, and now these doctrines have become 'the gospel truth'. JKD has become the antithesis of it's own philosophies!
Everywhere you turn, you bump into a 'certified' JKD instructor raping the JKD/Lee legacy.

'I think I get the sparring part.
But how/when do you communicate the actual techniques involved (mount position,leg kicks, etc)?
"Ok, first lesson." *POW* "Move faster!"
Are they taught in some kind of order? Whatever is being taught that night? Mix different skill levels?'

JKD is a paradox.
JKD in and of itself, has no techniques.
When Lee taught technique, he was teaching JUNFAN Gung Fu, as technique contradicted his JKD philosophy.
JKD is only a combat philosophy. As mentioned previously, 'an experience'.
For instance, no-one can teach you the experience of vacationing. It is just something you do. If you were vacationing in Hawaii with another person, you would each have your own 'experience' from the things around you.
Much of the JKD experience is how well you perform under the gun, the mental aspects of the individual when in combat. Do you freeze, or do you fight with the conviction of a pit bull? One can learn much about themselves even before a single punch/kick is thrown!
There ARE techniques that were used by and were effective for Lee, as this was his own 'custom made JKD suit' as it were, and in my opinion, the physical side of JKD died with him. For example: Let's say that a hip throw was standard in Lee's arsenal. Now, how effective would this technique be for say...a basketball player? He would only be able to get his hip under someone his own size, and virtually useless on anyone else. So one must be aware of their own physical ablities and limitations. Are you tall or short?, fat or skinny?, physically strong or weak? All of these aspects must be examined when training for combat.
By JKD's own philosophy, it is supposed to be a daily DECREASE in technique, not an increase. How does one 'decrease' their techniques if they know none to begin with?
Lee used the analogy of a sculpture chipping away the innesential clay to reveal the true
essence of the piece. How/where does one acquire this clay? By doing alot of research!
Lee had quite a number of years to 'amass' this clay/knowledge before he stripped away the innessentials down to their most effective form.
Even then, he never learned an entire art form as he was fond of saying: "One only needs to learn the root, to understand it's flowering branches".
Now, how does one know which techniques are the most effective? You have to learn some art(s) form or techniques from an art(s), and put them into application by sparring full contact. Of course,you need to make sure the techniques are properly learned before you do any kind of sparring.
Lee was a master at the 'power side forward' approach, where as most martial artists I have known, have a difficult time with it, and don't fight that way at all.
Finding our true selves can be a long and arduous process!





[This message has been edited by NEBULA_ONE (edited 01-11-2005).]

Awesome thread folks.

Philosophy would definetly be the best way to describe it. My teacher is excellent..as long as you try to do what he explains you are never really doing something wrong. We also work on Escrima and such in our JKD class so in that there is some structure but I love how its a very simple way of teaching. As long as you understand that there is no teaching an experience and that you are just offering guidance and ideas then I think you are capable of teaching JKD.