Orginal Jeet Kune Do

hi, i am thinking about taking Jeet Kune Do class but i see diffrent versions of it. I see versions like jkd street fighting, jkd concepts, jkd grabbling, and much more. I want to take a class that has Orginal Jeet kune do that bruce lee has tought. I know it has to be one stundent that bruce lee himself has tought is teaching jeet kune do to other teachers, so they can teach students this. So can you guys tell me where can i find orginal jkd training? i have a couple of more questions about jkd
1. does jkd take up neccessary moves from diffrent styles like does it take a little bit of wing chun, judo, kung fu, and more?

2. is jkd more of a self defends, or something else?

3. if i was geting ready to get in a fight with other martial artist, will i have a better chances of getting a few hits in?

4. in jkd, do i have to fight undering 3 mins?

Finding a JKD school of any worth is a challenge. Finding an "ORiginal" JKD school will be even harder. If you have a "Concepts" school then that should be what you are looking for. While JKD does borrow from other systems it doesnt utilize the techniques in the same manner. It becomes its own technique, used at the pratitioners will, not governed by what someone should do. It is your own interpretation.

what about joe lewis or dan inosanto, do they know orginal jkd?

Dan does. Joe's JKD history is debatable. But that doesnt matter. The whole object of JKD is too evolve, constantly changing so to become better as an art, and also so not to become a repetitive art and concrete style. Since its evolution JKD has changed many ways. That isnt to say that OJKD isnt good, but the only places that you'll find it is in Bruce's books.

whats the diffrents between jeet kune do and jeet kune do concepts?

Original / Jun Fun Jeet Kune Do you will not find only in the books, because i am attending JFJKD classes, and it differs from JKD concpets in a sense that it uses original teaching of Bruce Lee as a basis for later personal strategy. Concepts use many different martial arts sycj as Kali, Filipino in general, etc and put it all together. They are all very good schools.

so is jun fun jeet kune do is very effective, is it better then the concepts? if i use this will i have do fast exacuting moves?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Raziel:
so is jun fun jeet kune do is very effective, is it better then the concepts? if i use this will i have do fast exacuting moves?[/QUOTE]


Depends on how much time you're willing to invest in training.

Within "most" JKD concepts schools, you'll also learn the "original" (Jun Fan) JKD. Except mine that is...

I have opinions against the original material. Much of it wing chun based and I'm highly skeptical of any of that sort of stuff.

I say this as a person who "used" to train it. Just so you know.


-John

hard heard that jeet kune do is extremly good in a street fight,but i never heard anything about jeet kune do being use against praction-ners. If I get into a fight with other another martial artist, is it good for me to use it? and is jeet kune do concepts is better than the ju fan jkd?

Which is "better" depends on the person doing it.

That said, the method of training becomes important as well. A method more efficiently trained will create a better fighter.

I've experienced both sides of this JKD issue and to be honest, both sides are often not adhering to the underlying JKD philosophies (concepts). I could go into a LONG rant about the approaches that both "camps" take. Let me say that for the most part, the vast majority of JKD schools seem to have forgotten exactly what JKD is or is supposed to be about.

*JKD concepts schools will often not simplify their training approaches. They often aren't training alive either. There is not enough emphasis on actual sparring in many cases (though not all). There is usually too much of an emphasis on "looking good" rather than on "being good". At least they spar to some degree.

*Jun Fan/JKD guys are caught in a time warp and refuse to evolve. These guys often don't train alive EITHER. These guys like to stand around "flat footed" in pigeon-toed stances and practice their "chi sao" in the "trapping range", which is an illusional range to begin with.

We call that range, the range of exchange (ROE). That's NOT a range you want to stay in, in "real" fights. It's definitely not a range you want to try and "trap" an arm in.

Do that sort of thing and developing that sort of practice clearly demonstrates that the people who came up with that, were NOT practicing it "full contact, full power".

They would have easily seen the drawbacks otherwise. That's an example of aliveness NOT being present in training.

Also, the “Original” JKD guys rarely spar, or it’s not highly emphasized. You simply MUST spar, if you want to be any good at fighting. Read that last sentence two more times….


If you haven't guessed yet, "aliveness" is the key. Aliveness means that when you're training (regardless of the technique) you're using real timing, real motion and real resistance.

Aliveness does NOT necessarily mean sparring. Aliveness is also drilling. All your drills should be alive (having those three qualities of timing, motion and resistance).

Now, if about 75% of the JKD concepts schools would train "alive", about that much of their curriculum would "change". It would change either by completely dropping some of what they currently do (such as silat for example).

If ALL of the "Original" (Jun Fan) JKD schools trained alive, the wing chun aspects would fall by the way-side. They would get OUT of their flat footed, pigeon-toed stances and actually MOVE AROUND and, they wouldn't be "stuck" on some curriculum "just because Bruce Lee did it", as if he were some cosmic alien messenger sent from GOD to illustrate "true" martial arts techniques and principles.

In short, they (Original JKD guys) need to "get over it" because really, Bruce was just a "movie star" that never really fought anyone.

Hell, Joe Lewis said that he and Lee never even SPARRED in the two years or so that he trained with him.

That however, doesn't detract from Lee brilliance. However, that brilliance was merely his recognition of the truth. That truth of course, has BEEN around for centuries because in all honesty, there are NO NEW THOUGHTS.

There's nothing new under the sun. Not even JKD, which according to Lee was "Just a name".

There. I'm sure you're MUCH more confident with the decision making process (between Original and Concepts) now aren't you, lol?

You have to first, know what "aliveness" is. THEN you find a school or gym that trains alive. There you will find LIVING, the "real" JKD.

-John

I'm so confuse?????? o.k so jun fan/jeet kune do is does not have aliveness meaning in your words that they don't move around like bruce lee did, but jkd concepts does move around and thats a big major problem right? so if a take jun fan jkd, and just change the flat footing stance into me just moving around like bruce then I know jkd the real one right?

Basically what I want is to have fast excution moves like Bruce lee when i'm in a street fight against anybody even people in martial arts. I'm not saying that i want to have all of bruce lee moves and be like him but I am inspire to reach his speed and his to have his flow of combat

is this a good place to learn jeet kune do that have aliveness?
http://www.hardcorejkd.com/what_is_hjkd.php

JKogas, thats the biggest load of bull i ever heard.
I train Jun Fan JKD and it is incredibly alive, we do a lot of footwork, and spar at least once every week. We do wing tsung but only when you achieve 3rd level, so you can develop SENSITIVITY in your hand, it it not ACTUAL move you will use in the real fight, jeez.
i wont bother with other points, exept i will say that we are not closed minded and knuckleheads when it comes to original bruce lee teachings.

^^^^^I'm definitely confuse now??

o.k lets get this straight, jkd concepts is someone elses jkd right? example dan inosanto learn jun fan jkd and change it into his own form of jkd, and thats what bruce orginally wanted. if I had kick boxing, judo, and kung fu and mix it all together with the jun fan jkd base than that would be my jeet kune do that fits for me.

jun fan jkd is all of bruce's training thats contains wing chun, and jan fan gung fu that only fits for bruce lee. so basically this is copying bruce lee moves, and thats not really what jkd is right?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JKD_forever:
JKogas, thats the biggest load of bull i ever heard.
I train Jun Fan JKD and it is incredibly alive, we do a lot of footwork, and spar at least once every week. We do wing tsung but only when you achieve 3rd level, so you can develop SENSITIVITY in your hand, it it not ACTUAL move you will use in the real fight, jeez.
i wont bother with other points, exept i will say that we are not closed minded and knuckleheads when it comes to original bruce lee teachings. [/QUOTE]


I said, “those guys OFTEN don’t train alive”. I didn’t say that ALL Jun Fan guys, NEVER trained alive. I’m sure some do.

As far as it being the “biggest load of bull” is concerned, it’s been my direct experience with Jun Fan (from a variety of different practitioners and instructors) that lead me to make those statements. Do you think I would have just “made it up” without ANY reason?

But there is a reason why the original Jun Fan is not a part of my curriculum anymore. I mean, why waste time doing something one way when you’re just going to have to unlearn it eventually?


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Raziel:
I’m so confuse?????? o.k so jun fan/jeet kune do is does not have aliveness meaning in your words that they don't move around like bruce lee did, but jkd concepts does move around and thats a big major problem right?
[/QUOTE]

First of all, it really depends on a particular school and how THEY go about training. You have to firstly know what aliveness is all about. Then you have to GO and check out a particular school or training group to see how they train.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Raziel:

so if a take jun fan jkd, and just change the flat footing stance into me just moving around like bruce then I know jkd the real one right? [/QUOTE]

Have you really seen Bruce move around, or did you just see him do so in movies? Don’t confuse the theatrical JKD with the how it’s actually trained and fought.

Bruce Lee himself utilized a lot of dead training methods he got from wing chun. As time went by though, he started dropping much of the wing chun himself from what I’ve been told.

Aliveness isn’t just movement. It IS that, but its also about real timing and resistance. In other words, there’s an unpredictable/unrehearsed quality to the drills that you do. There are no “patterns” or forms. Also, when doing partner drills, both sides are resisting each other and to outsiders, it would look like they were fighting almost. However bear in mind that it’s a progressive form of resistance and that the intensity levels should vary according to the students abilities.

But no, you should NEVER be standing still.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Raziel:

Basically what I want is to have fast excution moves like Bruce lee when i'm in a street fight against anybody even people in martial arts. I'm not saying that i want to have all of bruce lee moves and be like him but I am inspire to reach his speed and his to have his flow of combat [/QUOTE]

Then take the time to really study what JKD is all about. This will require a good coach who has been a student of the game for a long time and understands the concepts.

Just don’t confuse the movies with real life.


-John

Here's a good place to learn about aliveness:

http://www.graugart.dk/temp/sbg.wmv


-John

^^^^thats good

Hi,
I am very interested in Bruce Lees philosophies and JKD. I am a beginner to martial arts and am currently training in northern style shoalin kung fu to gain a good grounding of the basics, though i do most of my training alone especially working on speed and flexibility as im new. As im new as i wondering if someone could tell me how to focus my training to that of JKD, I am currently awaiting recieval of bruce lees books to gain a further insight but i also wanted to hear the opinions of todays JKD students. I live in london and know of no JKD schoools and from what i have heard theyre not generally great in terms of Bruce Lee's teachings generally. I also assume that they would burn an extremely deep hole in the student pocket...... What advice can u give me??

Ayub -

You're going to need more than books. You're also going to need at least ONE partner.

The preferable thing to do is to start a JKD "study group".

If you have no convenient access to a real school, the next best thing to do would be to purchase some training DVDs and use THOSE as your guide.

I would recommend Matt Thornton's "Functional JKD Series II". They can be found here:
http://www.straightblastgym.com/videoinfo.htm#JKD2


That one time purchase covers EVERY aspect of fighting, from all three games - including Brazilian jiu-jitsu (very important and often overlooked and neglected).

I'm serious about my recommendations for this series. It's helped everyone's game who's ever bought it.

Good luck!

-John



[This message has been edited by JKogas (edited 11-27-2004).]

thanks john, ill look into that. i have few friends i could ask also.

Listen, learning martial arts from books is like learing how to swim, but not quite getting into watter, i mean that just not going to happend.
Bruce Lee throw a lot of unecesary moves and thats ok, but in order to reach to that point he had to experiment with other, in other words, to count to 5 you have to count 1,2,3 and 4 you can't go from 2 to 5.
As for what is usefull you will find on your own after long years of training, BUT some things in JKD are universal such as unortodox stance, etc.
Just try to enroll to one of JKD schools, otherwise dont bother learnsomething else.

The four walls of a dojo mean much less than they used to. The doojo hall has been replaced by a gym. The caliber of fighter has grown significantly over the past 30+ years. Especially so in the last decade with the arrival of such events as UFC and Pride. John's advice is sound, as usuall, except for his prejudices against WC. Submition from any position. Sounds like WC to me John, call it catch if you want. Anyways, the idea of a study group is excellent, even if none of you know a thing about JKD. The whole idea of JKD is to learn from outside sources. With that being true then you must have interaction with others. Learn from them. Read the books. Discuss the books. Discuss the latest ideas you can and find gems in the old arts as well. When searching for something that comes from within then you need know guide. The ultimate style of JKD is the ultimate expression of the self. No one can show you that. You find it yourself.

I agree with some of your statements jkogas but you are wrong about bruce not being a real fighter, first off sparring is not real fighting because you dont go all out sparring is sparring point blank the reason bruce was sent to america by his parents was because he participated in real fighting in the hong kong rooftop fights ( no rules, no pads, no ring) and many of his the people that knew him and spent time with him like gary hartsell will tell you that bruce had no problem fighting on the street on many occasions and i dont know how many times this must be repeated chi sao is NOT a fighting technique it is just an excersie to develop hand reaction and sensitivity so you DONT have to go all out like an untrained fighter and batter your opponent you can trap lock and destroy thats it.all those drills you described do creat aliveness you have to adapt them to make it alive and work for you , its almost assinine to expect its to be all done for you if a drill already is alive what the point in doing it? you make the drill alive and work for you whether its chi sao or compound trapping, or fillipino martial arts or older silat just using "aliveness drills " and all you are doing is basic kickboxing nothing more.

you need both sides of the coin if you are only practicing aliveness drills you are getting cheated like professional boxers use aliveness drills BUT they also stand at the heavy bag and practice their jab for hours at a time so you need it both ways or your just getting cheated, you are taking the easy way.