Teaching Women Self Defense

Posted by: captnpepsi

Teaching Women Self Defense - 03/31/06 11:54 AM

Hi all, I'm a junior instructor( practiced 14 yrs, have taught 4 years ), and i am concerned when it comes ot teaching women.

The methods we use against someone who is taller and stronger than us is different than those ew use against equally sized opponents.

For women, who are both smaller, weaker, and lighter it makes it that much harder to become effective combatants.


Sometimes i feel like the best i can do is tell the woman student what a police officer may say:

yell , scream , make noise, don't turn ur back, etc.

stuff that deals more with non-martial common sense defense than anythign else



Anyone here have any input on what tecniques work well for women of short stature?

It seems that they really have it hard - i mean you can have the most terrific punch for your size - but if you're a 7 year old chances are the 20 pervert wil lrape you if he wants to
Posted by: underdog

Re: Teaching Women Self Defense - 03/31/06 12:33 PM

I share your frustration both as a teacher, and as a female practitioner. In addition to everything else you mentioned, women are just naturally less aggressive then men. Testosterone not only builds muscle mass, but it makes people aggressive. Men have more of it than women naturally.

One more important difference is that when you teach self defense, as opposed to teaching white belt beginners, is that the self defense student is not making a long term commitment to practice while the white belt expects to. This means that any technique you teach has to be easily effective and easily remembered without practice.

I think your police advice is very good. It is just addressing reality.

On the other hand, while teaching self defense, especially if you have students that are younger and in good physical condition and demonstrate an interest or aptitude, do encourage them to pursue martial arts. Do what you can to be sure that your dojo is a welcoming place for the diversity of learners out there who COULD benefit such as those with some mental or physical disability, females, older students etc.
Posted by: Joss

Re: Teaching Women Self Defense - 03/31/06 01:01 PM

I believe that self-defense MA, in general, falls pretty short in addressing special needs students... which turns out to be about anyone but healthy full size males. Maybe they are women, maybe they are older, maybe they are physically challenged. The truth is, though, that most MA programs are "one size fits all" and designed for healthy young males; from kihon, through the selection of kata, through bunkai, through sparring. You go to a dojo - there is only one program path to dan rank.

Some day, maybe, the folks in charge will look around and accept that women suffer entirely different assualt scenarios than males, and that women don't as a rule do "bar fights" or "duels". Those are "guy things". What women need is techniques that address ways that they most commonly are attacked.

The same applies to the 50 and older set as well (my personal niche). Having kata in the syllabus that require leaping kicks or lifting, twisting throws like Ogoshi is sort of pointless if you no longer have decent back mobility.

I really enjoyed reading in another thread about how one school was able to come up with FUNCTIIONAL instruction for a student bound to a wheel chair. That's wonderful. Maybe one day it won't be so rare.
Posted by: harlan

Re: Teaching Women Self Defense - 03/31/06 01:03 PM

http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/s...0&fpart=all

I would propose that a major drive behind weapons creation (and constant innovation) is the need to equalize.
Posted by: Joss

Re: Teaching Women Self Defense - 03/31/06 01:43 PM

"I would propose that a major drive behind weapons creation (and constant innovation) is the need to equalize."

Absolutely. "God created men. Sam Colt made them equal."
Posted by: medulanet

Re: Teaching Women Self Defense - 03/31/06 09:13 PM

Anyone who is seriously considering self defense and does not carry a weapon at all times is just kidding themselves. Actually there is one place where men are in danger of being attacked in similar ways that women are everyday, in prison. And the bottom line is when you are down(meaning locked up in prison for those that don't know) you better have some sort of shank or weapon readily available. It helps to learn self defense from those that live it 24/7.
Posted by: sunspots

Re: Teaching Women Self Defense - 04/03/06 07:39 PM

Some things we mention in our school related to un-equal match-ups in self-defense:

Even the biggest, toughest guy has vulnerable spots. Eyes, knees, groin, throat, etc. Not legal targets in sport karate, but good for self-defense. If the bad guy can't see, run, or breathe, he's not coming after you. In the dojo, we "fight fair," and "play nice," but if someone is truly aiming to hurt you, all rules are off.

Give them permission to defend themselves. They don't deserve to be attacked, but some don't realize that they CAN do something about it. Self-confidence is a big part of it.


Hope this is helpful,

sunspots
Posted by: dmsdc

Re: Teaching Women Self Defense - 04/03/06 10:21 PM

It is my opionion that one of the most powerful things you can give women during a self-defense seminar is the opportunity to say (loudly) some key phrases.

"Stop". "Quit Bothering Me." "I Don't Know You." "Leave Me Alone."

The "I don't know you" one is particularly important because many people will ignore a situation if they think it is a domestic violence issue.

Another key skill is to introduce women to the idea that if the person approaching them isn't listening to what they're saying - then it is time to stop being nice and to get loud.

"Back Off." "Leave Me Alone!" "Back OFF!" "I Don't Know You!"

The second key thing is to invite women to make a decision - in advance of any bad situation, that they are going to protect their well being and the well being of anyone in their care.

This has to do with something academics like to call self-efficacy. I posted some information about it on my forum that might be an interesting read:
http://forums.uechi-ryu.com/viewtopic.php?t=15726

However - even just giving women the opportunity to think about the idea that they will choose in advance to defend themselves might bring up some ideas that will suprise you.

I've had other women tell me "I could never hurt someone else." "It isn't right for me to hurt them." "I can't hurt them."

What happens when violence knocks and politeness answers?
**warning** - the story in the following link contains a graphic description of one woman's account of her own rape. I don't usually post stuff with this kind of content - however I think it is the key issue facing women today. Many, if not most, women do not believe in their heart of hearts that they have the right to stop someone who is hurting them.
http://forums.uechi-ryu.com/viewtopic.php?t=12848

Hope that helps you as you think about what you are offering in your approach.
Posted by: wristtwister

Re: Teaching Women Self Defense - 04/05/06 12:25 AM

Quote:

What happens when violence knocks and politeness answers?





Congratulations... great way to phrase the question.

Posted by: harlan

Re: Teaching Women Self Defense - 04/05/06 08:01 AM

I do think the basic value of a general self defense course is the introduction to our social conditioning. After that, it is up to the individual to take responsibility for his/her well-being and security.
Posted by: underdog

Re: Teaching Women Self Defense - 04/05/06 09:02 AM

I'm a member of AWSDA (American Women's Self Defense Association). It is actually an international organization working on a name change to reflect this growth. Anyway, its a group of very dedicated men and women dedicated to teaching self defense to women. Attitude is very important. That has been addressed from several angles. Our motto is "You have an absolute right to defend yourself". Our next conference is in November in Arizona USA. Last year we were in Toronto Ontario Canada.
Posted by: balmytigeress

Re: Teaching Women Self Defense - 04/06/06 02:39 AM

I know what you mean. I was partnered with this huge mountain of a man for SD one day, and we did some technique that was utterly impractical. If that guy really attacked me, trying that technique would have been worse than useless.

First thing is that non-martial common SD stuff you mentioned - Avoid the situation and there are less chances of a fight occuring, don't make a yourself of target with words, body language, etc.

I agree with the others, an Intro to social conditioning, and the importance of confidance and knowing that you don't have to be a victim, are also important.

From Miss Congeniality 2 - SING: Solar plexus, instep, nose, groin.

Go over anatomy. Self-defense is supposedly taught at my school, but they don't do it consistantly and there is no curriculum for that. Master O acknowledged that, says that in a SD situation like that, you don't have time to remember a self defense technique. Focus on what are those weak points? What are the simplest ways to attack those areas? Then, how are we most commonly restrained and what can we do in those positions?

Of course what you are looking for is not preventative measures, right? When all best efforts to avoid conflict come to naught, all the caution, confidence, yelling, reasoning, etc and they still attack. What to do...

I'm sure I was no help. There are many other ways to be attacked, but you have to start somewhere. Bring the practice as close to reality as possible without going too far. As a student, I've noticed when practicing SD in class it can be hard to stay on track and remain serious. It is easy to start playing with your partner. Keep an eye out for that. This is serious business. An automatic reaction is more likely if you train in conditions as close to reality as you can get. Get some larger men to play attacker, make sure they are padded up well, and instruct them to appear manacing and intimidating.
Posted by: Yojimbo558

Re: Teaching Women Self Defense - 04/28/06 03:32 PM

Captnpepsi,

Hi there, how're you doing? First off when it comes to Women's Self-Defense...I find that the most important aspect of it is identification. This covers two aspects...1) Concepts 2) Techniques.

The first thing I do in these classes is discuss how and why women are targetted. For example, a Rapist as part of a program that had aired on the Discovery Channel years ago, was one of several criminals that identified how he selected his victims:

1) The Rapist didn't come crashing out of the brush, or from a hidden area. Because if a victim happened to spot him attempting to hide, they'd be on their guard. What he did was approach them directly in the parking lot. If they kept eye contact and tracked them he left them alone, they were to observant. If however when he walked towards them they looked the other way, and didn't track him...he closed in on them. The first example was someone who would know an attack was coming...who would be able to provide a physical description, and comes from a type of personality that would either fight back & or scream for help, thus attracting attention. The second example was someone who would only be able to describe to the police what he felt and smelled like and wouldn't see the attack until he had her. Furthermore, the women who duck their heads, and look the otherway fall into a category that typically neither fights back or fails to call out for help.

2) The Rapist stated that the thing he hated most when a woman entered the parking lot and she already had her keys in her hand. Not because she could use it as a weapon...but because he had no idea where her car was in the parking lot...it could be in the front, middle or the back. Furthermore, by having her keys out already, she would be able to walk to her car and remain alert, never having to take her eyes off her surroundings to go diving through her purse to find her keys...thus eliminating a surprise attack while she was distracted.

3) In short, women, the Rapist revealed identified themselves a Potential Victims or Not based off of how they carried themselves. Whether they paid attention to their surroundings or not. The idea is for them to be able to make their attack, and to isolate their victim without attracting notice or attention to themselves.

Rape is not a quick crime, the average rape lasts 4 hours, and achieves a level of violence in which the woman believes that she's about be killed during this incident. It has nothing to do with sex, it has everything to do with the Rapists feeling powerful and incontrol.

4) Rapists also trick the victim by trying to identify with them in terms of we & us -- what the victim needs to remember is that their is no us. & that when the Monster is trying to convince her that he doesn't want to hurt her, and that if she trusts him she'll come out of this fine...to remember that as someone who's trying to abduct her...there is no reason to trust her. 90% of all women who are abducted for the rape are killed. Allowing yourself to be isolated plummets the liklihood of your surviving this encounter and also eliminates the liklihood of someone coming to your aid.

I teach the women not to allow the person to circumvent what they want or try to guilt them into doing what they want. I teach also through scenarios which are very helpful. In one scenario, I showed how guilt can be used by playing on look I'm just trying to help and be nice by offering to help carry your groceries to your car. When she gave in, and simulated opening the trunk of the car, I initiated the attack and showed the class how thanks to her, I had managed to get her trapped in the trunk of her own car...how now, I've got her car keys and can drive her car to a place of my choosing. Like I said, scenarios are very helpful, in identifying and understanding how they are targetted. By teaching this...they learned to avoid putting themselves in situations or places that made an attack more likely.

I talked to them about taking night classes at the local college & how most colleges have security escorts that will walk you to your car to ensure that you make it safely. But how many women refuse to do so because they fear that it'll make them appear not to be self adjusted independent women who aren't afraid, rather than someone who has a free access to a service that'll ensure that they leave the campus safely.

I tell them how many people put themselves in jeopardy by deciding to go down dark places or isolated areas when they shouldn't because they feel that avoiding those areas would be more paranoid or the liklihood of an attack is small or the excuse that I hate the most...that the well lit area where they could see anybody coming from any direction would have added a couple of minutes getting to their car and so they sacrifice their safety for a slightly quicker route.

Through these exercises I've noticed a startling change in how the women carry themselves and speak. I've seen women who so completely lacked in their confidence that their voices were barely a whisper, and who naturally walked and carried themselves in a very submissive posture -- change and become women who spoke loudly and clearly, who looked you in the eye and watched their posture change to one of confidence.

The 2nd part of the teaching is the techniques and strategy you'll be teaching them. They learn what strikes cause what reaction to the body, and how to follow through. I teach them the strikes and we put them together so that when it comes to the scenarios it is in an adrenalized state, and becomes apart of their muscle memory.

The women are also surprised by a revelation in this type of training. During the scenarios, I wear a fully padded suit so that they can do the strikes that they've learned with full force. What surprises the women who've taken martial arts, is that many of them find that techniques they've learned such as knee strikes to the groin don't land or eyestrikes are half hearted...not because they don't know them. But because up until that point they've never been in a training atmasphere where they could actually commit to a series of full force strikes without worrying about hurting their training partner.

For Women's Self-Defense, I don't teach a massive list of techniques and requirements...I teach a small number of strikes and follow throughs, but all of my students have agreed that the thing that made the biggest difference was the scenarios.

Why, because through them we were able to target actual fears and concerns that they had. For the women I taught that had been raped, it was a form of therapy in that we recreated the scenario in which they were attacked, only this time they had the knowledge and skills to respond.

I hope that this helps, if you'd like more input let me know.

Eric
Posted by: Yojimbo558

Re: Teaching Women Self Defense - 04/28/06 03:45 PM

Hi Joss,

Providing Self-Defense to special need students is fully possible, and I have included it with a few students who've come through my Women's Self-Defense Class.

In one case a Mother who required a cane, joined the class along with her Daughter. The only reason the Mother did so was because the Daughter would only do so if she came with her, and the Mom wanted her to go through the class before she went off to college out of state.

Because I study both weapons and hand-to-hand, I incorporated the use of her cane into the scenarios. For the first time she learned how the cane could be used effectively to strike and defend herself.

Most people walk incorrectly with a cane, so I began with that. Many think for example that if you've injured your right leg that you hold the can in your right hand and lean on it for support. The result is the pronounced limp walk you see many people with canes performing. The way you walk with a cane, is if your right leg is injured you hold the cane in your left hand. As you put your right leg forward to step you put the cane forward basically making a type of tripod. While it seems that it should be the same side as the injury, it's not. Doing it with the opposite you can actually walk and look as if your not injured. When I tore my miniscus in 1995, I used a cane while recovering from surgery. Many people knowing that I was into weapons training thought I had recovered far more quickly than I had.

At any rate, back to the Mother. In addition to utilizing the cane for strikes, and defense, she learned how to utilize the attacker when he managed to grab her as a form of support while countering his attack.

Eric
Posted by: dmsdc

Re: Teaching Women Self Defense - 05/04/06 05:30 PM

What is the source for the stat that the average rape lasts four hours? I'd like to be able to reference that in the future but would like to cite a source.
Posted by: Yojimbo558

Re: Teaching Women Self Defense - 05/05/06 08:30 AM

Hi there,

Currently I'm serving overseas and don't have access to my sources. For one of my college classes, I made a presentation on how rapists selected their victims. I've got a few more months to go before returning home and will be able to get it to you then. Otherwise you can jump through and see if you can find the stat on your own.

Try going to or calling a rape crisis center, they may be able to provide you with the statistic.

Eric
Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: Teaching Women Self Defense - 05/09/06 11:01 PM

happened to come across this which may give you ideas:
http://www.jessicaberger.com/articles/10.html

common sense stuff really, but sometimes reading it may help young people do the right thing if the time comes to act with their wits and not emotions.

physical defense is really the last lines of defense and not very good odds if you are a small Woman/girl against a larger man ....awareness is the front line.
long-term prevention:
- Learn how not to be prey. (street smarts)
- Remove yourself from abusive relationships. (most common assault).
- Endevour to move to a safer neighborhood. (if applicable/possible).

just a few ideas...I'm not a professional, so don't consider this advice, just things/ideas to think about.

good luck with your class.
Posted by: underdog

Re: Teaching Women Self Defense - 05/14/06 05:27 PM

Excellent. Actually, I include safety awareness in my special needs and childrens' classes. We use scenarios and discuss them and act them out. The page you linked has some good ideas. Thank you.
Posted by: trevek

Re: Teaching Women Self Defense - 05/15/06 06:34 AM

I don't teach SD but I have been thinking about it for some time. I wonder what others think.

During a warm-up for a class my instructor commented that all the warm-up moves (waist twists, arm swings etc) could be developed into technique... kind of 'polish on; polish off').

I think it is important to show non MAists that moves they do in everyday life, such as dance moves, can be used in SD. They don't have to learn amazing new moves like spinning roundhouses etc which they have to practice. They often have the basis of technique in what their body already knows.

For instance, those girly slaps where a little girl waves her arms informt of her and slaps and slaps can actually be quite hard to get past (...errrm, so I'm told) as they slap the approaching hands away and follow up fast. Not too hard a technique to develop.
Posted by: harlan

Re: Teaching Women Self Defense - 05/15/06 08:11 AM

I think 'girly slaps' would be offering an assailant your arm. Bad idea.
Posted by: trevek

Re: Teaching Women Self Defense - 05/15/06 02:26 PM

I wasn't advocating it as a pure unadulterated technique, more of a basis to work on. Slapping is a natural defence at close quarters for many people rather than the kind of blocks you are taught in many MA's.

Also, many females wouldn't have toughened hands/wrists or know how to make a decent fist (many males too, for that matter). Therefore open hand techniques are probably a better option for a beginner in SD, wouldn't you say? A slap can be a very effective tool and one a lot of girls and women (in my sad experience) know how to use with a frighteningly natural efficiency.

Of course, it is a last resort...
Posted by: harlan

Re: Teaching Women Self Defense - 05/15/06 02:41 PM

I think most women are most naturally comfortable with a palm strike...and to capitalize on that. But side swinging of any sort...won't that put pressure on the shoulder at weak points?
Posted by: trevek

Re: Teaching Women Self Defense - 05/15/06 02:47 PM

Ah, sorry, I was referring to vertical, doggy-paddle style slaps
Posted by: harlan

Re: Teaching Women Self Defense - 05/15/06 02:48 PM

My mistake.
Posted by: trevek

Re: Teaching Women Self Defense - 05/15/06 03:05 PM

No, you're too humble and kind Harlan, it was my lack of clear description. I did mention arm swings in my initial post (wait a minute, I'm not supposed to be posting... I'm a hermit).

I meant the kind of big (or small) circle swing like you get in some dancing which can be like a sweeping block.

A very bad description so don't worry if you don't know what i mean.

Anyway, I'm running back off into obscurity before I ruin a great thread.
Posted by: captnpepsi

Re: Teaching Women Self Defense - 08/07/07 08:25 PM

This has been great information so far.

Now all teh common sense thigns put aside - what TECNIQUES in particular applied to which SITUATION have do you think would be most beneficial for women to learn?
Posted by: MattJ

Re: Teaching Women Self Defense - 08/08/07 01:28 PM

I don't know if there is a singular list for best techniques. Situations and opponents are too fluid to say "do this" or "do that". My general ideas are:

* RESIST RESIST RESIST

* Find a weapon if you can

* train to fight in all ranges, and from unconventional positions (in a chair, in a car, laying down prone, etc)

Then perhaps the women will be able to find what works for them.
Posted by: olga

Re: Teaching Women Self Defense - 08/08/07 01:54 PM

Teach techniques that inflict the most pain and don't rely on strenght.
Posted by: wristtwister

Re: Teaching Women Self Defense - 08/09/07 06:11 AM

The most successful martial arts program I ever taught was a rape prevention course that I did for the local Michelin plant here in town. I called it "taking the pencil home", and it was based on using a pencil as a weapon.

The techniques all concentrated on using "soft parts attacks" ... groin, throat, eyes, etc. to protect yourself, and using the pencil to gain some penetration and "point control" for specific target strikes.

The most common question was "what happens if the pencil breaks?"... the answer... then you have TWO weapons.

A sharpened pencil makes a great "shank", and getting stabbed with one of them isn't any fun...(had that happen to me in grade school). It marks the assailant with graphite, so law enforcement has another "marker" to use in identification, and it is very innocuous to carry. I don't know of a city in the world where you'll be booked for "carrying a pencil" as a crime.

It was well thought out, and all the students picked up on the methods and ideas of the class quite readily. Of course I taught all the "avoidance" issues as well, but the self defense portion went quite well, and the human resources department of the company notified me that it was also the most successful program they had ever had as a volunteer training program by the employees association.

I got to teach it one time... why?... the company lawyers jumped in and started screaming about liability, how the company would be sued, etc. if anybody protected themselves using something taught on company property, and that they were in the business of making tires, not preventing rapes...

That's why lawyers have such great recognition as "defenders of the wrong people". I was taught that lawyers and whale $*** both belong at the bottom of the ocean, because they are made of the same thing.

Posted by: harlan

Re: Teaching Women Self Defense - 08/09/07 07:30 AM

Absolutely on target. As a survivor, a female, and one who studies weapons...the pen is mightier...well..than nothing. Which is what most women have these days...nothing in the way of SD awareness, or concepts, or handy weapons.

Quote:

The most successful martial arts program I ever taught was a rape prevention course that I did for the local Michelin plant here in town. I called it "taking the pencil home", and it was based on using a pencil as a weapon.

The techniques all concentrated on using "soft parts attacks" ... groin, throat, eyes, etc. to protect yourself, and using the pencil to gain some penetration and "point control" for specific target strikes.


Posted by: Jeff_G

Re: Teaching Women Self Defense - 08/16/07 02:43 AM

I used to teach my SD students to keep it quick, simple and dirty. Once the attack is on, you have two seconds to do what you are going to do and run like crazy.

I only used a couple of rules and all techniques were built around them.

1. Control
Keep control of your own mind. Don't go getting all screaming in your head. Control where you walk. Stay in the lighted areas. Cross the street instead of walking past a situation that just doesn't seem right.
2. Go with the power.
That doesn't mean go with the big bad guy. But, if he gets a hold on you and you pull back, you lose. Learn escape techniques that go into the move.

Ask the students what particular concerns they have. Address those.

And so on...

Jeff G.