Female instructors and respect

Posted by: PierrePressure

Female instructors and respect - 11/20/05 04:52 PM

I visited a nearby dojo just recently, and I observed the kid's class there. It was full of maybe 8-10 little kids between the ages of maybe 4 and 6, and there were two younger female assistants (one maybe 17, the other 15) teaching (with the older instructors supervising), along with a youngish boy, maybe 14. Now, I realize that this is a Mcdojo situation with all these younger kids teaching, but that's really not why I'm making this thread. See, I was struck by how little the kids actually seemed to pay attention to their teachers. Yes, maybe the fact that the instructors themselves were young had a part to play in it, but it got me thinking. Has anyone, and I mean female instructors or just observant people, noticed an issue with commanding a room full of kids, simply because you're female?

Before anyone gets upset over this, please know I'm only asking because I am female, and I have hopes of someday maybe teaching a small group of people, children or whoever, in martial arts. I'm curious, because even in my own school it's definitely our male instructors who really seem to have a hold on the kids (and the adults too, actually ). I don't like that, but it just seems to be the way it falls.

So I suppose my question is: How is this handled? How do (in your opinion) female instructors keep a disciplined environment that is full of respect without seeming like a tyrant? For some reason, it seems to be more of a balancing act for us chicks. Any thoughts/tips/ideas?
Posted by: trevek

Re: Female instructors and respect - 11/20/05 05:00 PM

I shouldn't think it isa problem with kids, after all, they are used to female school teachers, mothers, older sisters and care assistants. I think age is a benefit there.

Good luck,
Posted by: MattJ

Re: Female instructors and respect - 11/20/05 06:46 PM

PierrePressure -

I think that the effects you noticed are more related to the lack of experience of the instructors in question. It takes a certain amount of skill to be able to keep very young student's attention.

There IS a balancing act required between knowing the concentration limits of children (usually limited) and the need to enforce discipline (push-ups were my favorite) when necessary.

As a personal note, I had several female instructors coming up through the ranks.
Posted by: chickenchaser

Re: Female instructors and respect - 11/20/05 06:55 PM

from my point of view (i can't say if it holds true with everyone, though i think it should) is that(for a lack of better words) i don't look chest level in an instructor i look belt level......in other words, to me, a black belt talking = me listening.
Posted by: srv

Re: Female instructors and respect - 11/20/05 07:24 PM

I also think that this is more to do with the age and experience of the instructors you saw. In our dojo while our head instructor is male we have a lot of female assistant instructors (I help out with the teaching at the kids class) and the ability to command respect depends a lot on the experience, age and the individual. When I first started helping the kids would be more difficult and try to test me out a bit but now I've been regularly helping with the teaching for a few years they do pay attention more and treat me with respect. Although with real young kids it can be difficult for anyone to hold their attention for too long doing the same thing cause they're just not old enough to be able to and when you teach you need to be flexible with what you're doing and change what they're doing regularly. Also keepeing a balanced respectful environment without being a tyrant is, I think, important for any intructors - male or female - particularly those that teach young children. There are some fantastic female instructors around so don't let this dampen your ambitions to teach in the future. As chickenchaser said, a black belt is a black belt whether the person is male or female.
Posted by: BuDoc

Re: Female instructors and respect - 11/21/05 07:26 AM

Don't be so quick to write off teen agers with middle kyu ranks assissting with the teaching of children, as a McDojo.

I do not teach children myself and personally don't think anyone under 12(and few of them) should be taught. This is an entirely different thread/can of worms.

The important info here is that I have seen many fine schools that do teach children. They often use teenagers to assisst(boys and girls), and this seems to be effective.

As for women commanding respect. One of my favorite instructors is a tiny little, middle aged, mother of 2 with a 5th Dan. She jumps around and plays with kids classes with youthful exuberance. She has no problem commanding respect from anyone, of any age!

Page
Posted by: ShikataGaNai

Re: Female instructors and respect - 11/21/05 01:38 PM

My main instructor is not only female, but of underaverage height and weight. However, she is the owner/operator of an incredible chicago school that has turned out some pro-level MAists and has her own reknown in the MA world, not to mention incredible skill and accomplishment in more arts than you could shake a tonfa at.
The mantra of the school is "lead by example".
'Nuff said.
Posted by: PierrePressure

Re: Female instructors and respect - 11/21/05 02:50 PM

Awesome insights and examples. Thanks guys. Makes me feel better about my ambitions .

BuDoc, sorry if I offended you. I know from personal experience that teenagers can be invaluable to teachers, but what I failed to mention was that I observed some other warning signs that this place might not be a school that meets my own personal standards, hence my "Mcdojo" comment. Don't know if that helps......
Posted by: JasonM

Re: Female instructors and respect - 11/21/05 03:18 PM

I agree with the age of the instructor had something to do with it. My instructor is a female, and she always got respect from the students whether young or old. Plus, she had kids of her own, which I thinks helps in teaching kids. Now, that doesn't mean instructors without kids can't teach them, but having your own, ya learn some tricks and whatnot. IMO..
Posted by: BuDoc

Re: Female instructors and respect - 11/22/05 12:33 PM

Pierre,

No offense taken. Sometimes we just have misunderstandings when we write.

I'm sure you have examined the complete picture when choosing the proper school for you.

My comments, while in response to your post, were really directed at the larger audience. In this day and age we are really quick to assume McDojo(kind of a guilty until proven innocent type of thing).

There are McDojos that use lower level kids to teach, and there are fine schools that do the same. Many people don't take into account the complete picture of a dojo, unlike yourself, and dismiss it outright.

Good luck with your training,

Page
Posted by: tkdkid5282

Re: Female instructors and respect - 11/22/05 10:10 PM

i am 16 and i am an instrustor...first you have to scare them so they fear and respect you then you become theit friend so they want to listen to what you have to say...combination of both works
Posted by: horizon

Re: Female instructors and respect - 11/23/05 04:07 AM

IMHO scaring them doesn't make them respect you, just fearing you.
In our dojo we have an excellent female instructor, who is taking the kid's class once a week. She doesn't take cr*p from them, not listening is a warning, again is sitting besides the class for a while, continously interrupting isn't allowed and will lead to not taking part in the class at all. However, all kids love her. She is strict, but also sees that they are children, with lots of energy, and that they are there to enjoy class. So she make the class very enjoyable, balancing the karate-aspect, learing basic techniques etc with physical activities.
Te kids respect her and every time they see her before class they greet her with great enthusiasm.
Posted by: JohnL

Re: Female instructors and respect - 11/23/05 08:27 AM

Quote:

i am 16 and i am an instrustor...first you have to scare them so they fear and respect you then you become theit friend so they want to listen to what you have to say...combination of both works




You're clearly not ready to teach children yet, are you.
Posted by: MattJ

Re: Female instructors and respect - 11/23/05 10:59 AM

Quote:

first you have to scare them so they fear and respect you




Yikes! While I taught mostly adults, I did work with young kids occasionally. I never had to scare them, nor do I think that is necessary. You just have to keep them busy - on their level.
Posted by: ShikataGaNai

Re: Female instructors and respect - 11/23/05 11:05 AM

Quote:

i am 16 and i am an instrustor...first you have to scare them so they fear and respect you then you become theit friend so they want to listen to what you have to say...combination of both works




Spoken like a true 16 year old instructor. Sheesh.
Posted by: dmsdc

Re: Female instructors and respect - 11/23/05 12:18 PM

Good teachers do what good parents do.

They are warm and friendly, fair and firm, and respect the autonomy of adults, the need to foster autonomy in adolescents, and the need for structure with children.

I am a woman who regularly teaches adults and children. I do not question myself while I am teaching as to if I should or should not be up in front of the folks I am teaching - no matter what their size or age. I certainly sometimes have these insecurities when I'm on my own - but they do nobody any good during a training session.

The most important thing is to respect each and every person who comes to train. This includes respecting visitors who come to watch your training to decide if they'd like to join. Model how you want to be treated by treating others the same way.

As a teacher you teach explicitly and implicitly. Explicitly you teach forms, training drills, techniques, fighting, etc. Implicitly you teach respect, how to treat others, how to work as a partner, how to be focused, centered, and thoughtful.

A good teacher pays attention to how they're teaching both. Gender doesn't matter.

Why worry if you think someone doesn't respect you? You can't know their thoughts - you're not psychic. You can only find out by watching their actions or asking them what they think. So try not to project any insecurities you may have onto your students.

As my teacher often told me "You're perfect for today and will be better tomorrow if you keep training - that's all that matters."
Posted by: trevek

Re: Female instructors and respect - 11/24/05 03:10 AM

Scare them and they don't always come back.

There is a difference between being strict and being frightening.
Posted by: Ronin1966

Female instructors and respect - 11/25/05 07:26 PM

Hello:

Gender is irrelevent. Age may play a factor. Are the older children in this school having the same problems?

Younger instructors or new teachers will get eaten alive by young kids, and older children to some extent determined by group size. Experience and the type of support you have backing you up will determine how things go. Even the experienced folks run into a rogue class from time to time.

If you wish to teach, start as a volunteer, and work VERY hard with the beginners. Stay there for a long, long time. If you like it... you will have some experience at least and not have ~romantic ideas~ anymore. Once you've run your own classes for a long time SOLO or supported to some extent... you are a teacher.

It is not an easy task ever! School, dojo, daycare, much the same. Hard, hard work. There is a reason many of us are grey But gender is not a factor with a larger group. They are like baby ~pirrannah~ <sp.?> if you permit them even a taste. Time, experience is required to control a classroom.

Jeff
Posted by: still wadowoman

Re: Female instructors and respect - 12/08/05 11:21 AM

I agree with Ronin - gender is irrelevent.

I am sure everyone here know men and women they respect as well as men and women they don't. Why should martial arts instructors be any different?
Sharon
Posted by: tkd_high_green

Re: Female instructors and respect - 12/20/05 05:07 PM

A good instructor is a good instructor, and students recognize that. If you go into a class confidant, and with enthusiasm, the students recognize it and respect you for it. I am fortunate in that I have a slight advantage now that I earned my red belt, in that I am a professional teacher (not in the martial arts), which has given me the ability and experience to feel comfortable with public speaking.

One of the requirements for being able to get your black belt at my school is that you clock at least 10 hours assisting and or teaching a class. Once you reach red belt it is expected that you may be told to "start class" at any time, especially if you're an adult. This primarily consists of running through the standard set of warmups and stretches, but for many students this is the hardest part of being a red belt. Not only do you have to think about what you are doing, but you have to demonstrate it, and explain it to the other students. Its a great eye opener, and a great learning experience. Many students are terrified the first time they have to "start class"

That aside, the only gender differences I have observed is that many of the female students tend to be more timid the first few times they teach, and because of a larger number of male instructors at our school, the kids are more prone to answer "Yes Sir" to a command or question, regardless of gender, and while I find it amusing to be called "Sir" rather than "Ma'am", its still a "drop for pushups" offense.

Laura
Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: Female instructors and respect - 12/21/05 12:12 AM

teenagers 'teaching' a class of 4-6 year olds in a gym is structured sitting. It's good for the teens to learn from the experience and the kids have fun... but it's not really MA related.

There is a gym in this area called 'Kidsports'....it's great, kids do all kinds of structured activities, learn coordination, learn social dealings and interaction, etc. It's hosted,supervised and taught by teens and college students (usually majoring in child psychology). so it's great for the teachers too.

The big difference between a kidojo and kidsports is that at kidsports, the kids don't wear a uniform or pretend to be doing anything other than having fun. why BS the kids into thinking they are doing anything other than having fun and playing coordination games? The only possible reason I can think of is maybe the dojo expanded it's customer base by offering this type of activity/sitting service. Again, it's a great service, but if a place didn't put kids in costumes, would we even bother to have this conversation in an MA forum?

When my kids were younger, I decided for them to be doing something structured with qualified child care attendents and child development specialists for a couple hours each day. These kind of qualifications are not usually part of teaching in a dojo environment....so why would I choose to have my kids there?

Martial Arts are for people old enough to choose it themselves. under 7 years old, they could care less what the heck they are doing and are just having fun. May as well let them have fun with people who are studying and specializing in child development. probably at the same overall price too, since there are no uniforms or test fees.
Posted by: Subedei

Re: Female instructors and respect - 12/27/05 01:53 PM

I disagree completely. Martial arts are more than just fun for young children, they're excellent for a developing mind.

Memory, self control, coordination, strength, social skills, flexability - Martial arts improves all these things.

Plus, when they're old enough to begin learning how to actually fight they'll already have the basics down solidly. Not to mention being extremely confortable with the environment.
Posted by: JCM

Re: Female instructors and respect - 12/29/05 02:02 AM

I think it is more of age thing than a sex thing at that age. When I started teaching as a assistant instructor I was around 17 or 18(cant remember was long ago I had some trouble with kids but eventually I got it worked out and I am a full time instructor today.

In my experience the women have more of a problem with new male adult students. That being said once the student learns that the ladies are just as good as men they get with the program:)
Posted by: trevek

Re: Female instructors and respect - 12/29/05 06:00 AM

Subedei

While MA are all you say they are they are not the only things which give these benefits. Dancing can do this too.

What I find interesting about MA with kids is how even the ones who you wouldn't expect to often want to compete and spar. This is where I see a big difference between MA and other activities is the competitive and combatitive element and how many kids actually gain confidence to face these kind of challeneges.
Posted by: Subedei

Re: Female instructors and respect - 12/30/05 12:47 AM

Agreed. Dancing provides almost all health benefits of a martial art.
Posted by: Grayston

Re: Female instructors and respect - 01/05/06 05:26 AM

With the greatest respect I totally agree with some of the other posts that it really isn't so much 'male' or 'female' - but the same as the general schooling system in any country - you are either a teacher - or not a teacher (irrespective of sex. age, colour or whatever really).

A competition fighter is either going to be a winner, or not? Same thing.

Can you become a good (or great) teacher? Yes, but you had to have the ability or potential ability there in the first place...

There are many black belts in the world today - but they are not all teachers...

Respectfully,
Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: Female instructors and respect - 01/05/06 11:13 PM

.
Posted by: trevek

Re: Female instructors and respect - 01/06/06 04:44 AM

Ed, we all know you've run away to your own little castle, but that last comment was uncalled for.
Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: Female instructors and respect - 01/06/06 01:07 PM

Ed,
Last warning.
Posted by: bones56

Re: Female instructors and respect - 01/06/06 09:56 PM

ok we have only 2 instructors in my dojo the black belt is a female and i'm a assistant instructor certified by the ajka but the student in our dojo pay attention very well to the instructor as well as i i think its more as how you disaplin them when they dont do as instructed rather then age or gender i have have a storm team that even helps teach when they are needed if an instructor is unable to attend the other and the storm team works togather