Instructors sparring

I think it is a good learning experiance, really good for the colored belts. They learn a multitude of things this way, not the least of which are, humility, not to be intimidated and should be able to pick up some good combos.

I understand what you are saying but I think that sparring with a much higher belt can teach you a lot.

I no longer spar with my 7th dan instructor but, that is only because he underwent hip replacement and is no longer able to move his hip that well, but until the surgery he sparred everyone and it really helped many of the lower belts to see that there is a progression and to get them over feeling intimidated.

Try looking at it from a teaching point of view. If I spar with my students I can only work with and coach one person at a time. If I observe there sparing then I can work with as many as I need. I can stop two people that might be having problems or just if one is having problems and, I can give better feedback and point them in the right direction. If I can say, Joe, throw that round kick again and Tom you counter. Ok Tom, that was a great block, but instead of blocking this time try to step parry and counter with a front kick or punch, like so. Joe, throw that round kick again, at me this time! Then I demonstrate, watch, Tom and work a bit with him on his timing. If I am sparring my student I can only teach and see so much.

Ofcourse, I completely agree. We do both. Sometimes watch and coach, sometimes spar and coach!

Thanks for your thoughts, I'm a little disapointed that he told me that but I will probably have to have a sit down with him.The sparring mistique thing is a little wierd?? I love to spar and don't plan on giving it up.

SANCHIN31 wrote :
"I'm with Matt on this one! That's stupid. Get in there and spar,you can observe and spar at the same time! What? Are high ranks too good? Mystique? Sounds like fear to me."

Ok. Look at it like this SANCHIN31. In your match the other day, say your opponent was your teacher. You two are sparing and you pretty much ended in a draw. He said after, that you almost had him in an arm bar, you don’t remember, an ankle lock was attempted but the technique was incorrect, correct? So if he is your instructor, for arguments sake, how did that match help you? Were you able to correct some flaws in your technique at the time? Did you know that you had a few flaws or him for that matter? Now if there were two students on the mat instead of you two, the improper application of technique could have been addressed at the time of each attempt and things could have been corrected, that’s if an instructor with more experience was watching, teaching.

The "Mystique" comment is odd but hey whatever floats his boat.

I do spar with my instructor,he is 4th dan I am 2nd. He often shows me things and corrects me when we spar,same with the 8th kyu's.
The guy wasn't my instructor,nowhere close to it.
Did you watch The Ultimate Fighter? Randy and Chuck sparred with them,they didn't just stand around and watch.They taught while they were sparring and watching.

quite right, none said that the instructor should not watch and observe, but I was critisizing the need to create a mystique around the instructor. Its a bit strange and insecure if you ask me.

"yeah but we are not asking you are we? "

Now that I think about it my old Korean instructors never sparred with us. Sure they showed us how to do all the basic kicks and self defense techniques (one steps) but never did they ever put on the gloves and sparring gear and get out on the mat, never.

No disrespect meant, but how did you know how good the were then? (stripes on a belt don't count)

I used to spar with my 5th black Instructor all the time. Students need to get their ass handed to them once in a while to keep them humble.

sounds like political nonsense at your dojo schanne. re-evaluate the whole concept of 'appearences'.

BulldogTKD -

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this issue, my friend. You make a good point about observation, but I am convinced people will learn more from actually sparring a high rank as opposed to just being observed by them.

Surely you will see openings, etc, that your lower BB's may not be able to take advantage of? Rather than just pointing them out, if you *show* them by doing, they usually learn much quicker, IMHO.

I am with MattJ and Sanchin31 on this one as well. An instructor should be able to get down on the floor and do what he is demonstrating and spar with the students.

As for using one's time wisely as Bulldog stated. If you spar with your students, perhaps the one you are aparring with may not reap all the rewards, but he will learn from the endeavor. However, the main education will be for those watching who can gain more understanding in a few minutes than having you explain for half an hour.

An instructor doesn't have to spar everyone, but should get down and diry with the "crew" once and awhile.

Mystique and misques...that is what not sparring brings up. One has to question the motives of those that will not spar students, unless age or injury is in question.

-B

I'm always left in a constant state of mystique every time my instructor sits me on my arse! Acutally thinking back on it, I don't think that instructors should be allowed to spar!

Gavin,

Funny thing. My old instructor who was very good and had an uncanny ability of cutting one of your feet from beneath you with a kick and knocking you down...with that same foot, as you were falling, he would "nicely" cup your head in the crook of his ankle and ease your head to the ground. This was to let you know he could have smashed your noggin like a watermelon if he had wanted to.

I and one of my senpai (a former boxer) asked him how he got this good...what was the secret?

His answer: Practice . This is what showcasing technique can inspire in those under you.

-B

What I think he really means is that he would like me teaching more rather than just flat out training with the regular students. Who knows what he wants, Shihans and Senseis are a strange bunch at times.

Sounds like a right cocky bar steward! This is merely backs up my arguement, instructors shouldn't spar! I really feel this backs up my statement!

Can't really speak, I've just got back from training and have just put one of our new black belts on the floor! Cheeky git though returned the favour! These new guys just don't know the rules do they!!!!

I agree that sparring with students below Black Belt is a waste of time. What are you trying to prove that you are humble enough to spar your students, that you are in shape enough to spar everyone in class. I think that Sandan mentality at Yodan and above you should spar no lower then 1st Kyu Brown belt. They have the ability to understand whats happening to them.

The only time I will spar a color belt is in private classes or if he keeps making the same mistake during class, so its not sparring its teaching. I find that fighting in slow motion so that they can see or feel the technique upsets my timing, even teaching/sparring. Sometimes the kyu level people will run into a technique that is pulled. I find rather then have to feel terrible about a color belt running into a pulled technique I'd rather coach him and let him spar a person closer to his skill level. I feel this way even when sparring 5th-10th dans that can't block or past their prime phyiscally. Now these Masters, I can learn from them on various topics. Theres so many areas to explorer in MA.

Sparring isn't about rank level or winning its about learning and communicating, and there is a point where there is very little that he/she can gained from sparring/learning with a Sandan and above. They learn that they are not fast enough, strong enough, lack timing, don't know enough, such lesson take away rather then add benifits.
After you get over 15-20 students its a waste of time 1 person sparring twenty students 1 at a time. All learning the same above lesson. Let them spar different weights, heights, speeds, attitudes, timing and distance. Near their level where they can improve upon, rather then set future dreams, 1 day I'll be that fast or good. Let them take the 1 step toward the 1k mile journey.

I don't let Brown belts Spar green belts the skill level is far too different and some Brown belts have a take no prison attitude/kyu level attitude. Now I will let certain Shodans Spar with Green and below because they have the right mental out look. Their trying to teach not actually spar with them.

I will grapple with the class, but not the entire class, I have nothing to prove. When I was coming up it was a privelivage to move around with higher rank or come to a with the higher level class and only a gifted 1-3rd kyu level was given that oppurnity.

Learning, communication and setting standards is the key here, every school is different. This is what works best for me.

If you feel it is important for you to spar with the lower rank students for their benefit then you need to discuss this with your shihan if ceasing sparring is something he is insisting on you doing. One of the good things about training for years and achieveing higher rank is that you are now allowed to have an opinion that your superior rank instructors will actually listen to (usually). I would always spar with the below BB ranks teaching en route and complimenting them when they find an opening or make a good technique, slip one in now and then nice and easy to keep them on their toes. They usually bow out with a smile appreciating the fact that I took the time and helped them and didn't kick their butt for my own ego. I beleive this got me more respect from the students not less, they love you for it. For above BB of course that's a little different, since they are obviously more on your level and maybe in some cases more so in physical (but likely not technical) ability. Their traing would hopefully already have taught them to respect you for who and what you have become as a MA and what you can still teach them and not who can take who. Sparring with the BB always helped to keep me sharpened up, so I got some training myself while teaching. I never felt it diminished my status with the students. It all comes down to, if your shihan insists what will you do? Are you prepared to go your own way if need be? Only you can answer, but I don't know if it's worth it over such an issue. You could just have the students spar with each other and give that pair individual attention as you circle the room if class size is not too big and would probably have the same effect. Your attention and encouragement is what they want, and as you know there are various ways to give it to them. I may not have expressed anything you didn't know already but that's my imput, hope it helps.

Thank you, nicely worded.

1973 -

Great post, exactly.

*applause*

Thank you for your well worded and lengthy reply. Last knight I sat down and read replies to me for this post and I didn’t have the time to reply the way I wanted, so I was waiting to post today. Well you have said about what I would have typed so I will thank you for your thoughts on this matter and your great reply.

1973, nicely worded.

My first instructor was a 4th degree Moo Duk Kwan insrtuctor who not only sparred but did not pull techniques much at all. Do not misunderstand. He did not go out and simply beat you down. He worked with you, taught as he fought, and stung you if you made the same mistake twice.

He was the best fighter I have ever had the pleasure to work with then and now. I have never met anyone since with better timing, distancing, or combinations. Had I not sparred with him on a regular basis, I would not be half the fighter I am today. Am I at his level, probably not. Am I a much better fighter now thanks to the experiences with him, oh most definitely.

If he had sat back and just coached, I never would have developed the timing, footwork, distancing, and ability to react to a power shot the way I do now. It helped me to grow as a person, a MA, and as a fighter.

Higher belts sparring with lower belts is a must. There is simply too great a benefit in it not to allow students to have the experience. It also is a good thing if occasionally you can get a shot in on your instructor. It lets you know that even though they are clearly more talented, they are human too and that you are obviously improving if you can get something in on them. Sometimes, just having that desire, to score on your teacher, is enough to push you harder than you normally would push yourself.

I can only see a good side to sparring lower belts as an instructor or a senior belt.

Matt and Razorfoot stated it very well!

There is more benefit to everyone involved when top level instructors spar with students instead of "wasting their time."

-B