QUESTIONING OF INSTRUCTORS KNOWLEDGE

IM CURRENTLY STUDYING KUNG FU ANFTER 2 YEAR OF TKD. DURING CLASS A FEW DAYS AGO WE WERE PRACTICING A PARTICULAR SELF DEFENCE MOVE AND THE INSTRUCTOR TOLD US TO ADD OUR OWN FINISH TO IT. SO AFTER EXECUTING THE TECHNIQUE I BUT MY PARTNER IN AN ARM BAR AND PROCEDED TO TAKE HIM TO THE FLOOR. THE WHOLE ACTION WAS PREFORMED FAST,POWERFUL, AND SMOOTH. THAT DAYS CURRENT INSTRUCTOR WHOS LIKE 17 AND BEEN STUDYING FOR 2 YEARS COMES OVER AND TELLS ME THAT MY MOVE ISNT GOOD AND SHOWS ME A BUNCH OF OTHER MOVES THAT TOTOALY SUCK. MY PARTNER WHO I WAS PARACTICING WITH HAS ARMS LIKE PIPE CLEANERS (PERFECT FOR ARM BARS). ANY WAYS THE SIFU COMES ALONG AND SHOWS US A FINISHING MOVE FOR THE TECHNIQUE WHICH HAPPENS TO BE "THE EXACT SAME MOVE I USED IN THE FIRST PLACE". I WAS A PISSED BUT DIDNT SAY ANYTHING EVEN THOUGH THIS ISNT THE FIRST TIME ITS HAPPENED. DO I HAVE A LEGITAMIT REASON TO BE ANGRY OR IS MY EGO TAKING OVER. ALSO SHOULD I BE QUESTIONING THE QUALITY OF THE SCHOOL BEING THAT MOST OF IF NOT ALL THE CLASSES ARE TAUGHT BY INSTRUCTORS AND NOT THE SIFU.

Hi Ironman.
Would you mind turning the capital locks off, it looks like you are shouting. Thanks.

To answer your question, it is not at all uncommon for instructors under the sifu to take classes.
I am only a second dan in karate and run my own lessons four times a week.
I still have a lot to offer them and they do get the chance to regularly train with much more experienced instructors.

The question of disagreeing with a technique is a tricky one. Many senseis discourage questions that they think undermine their authority.
No disrespect to anyone intended but I think that is ridiculous. I welcome feedback from my students because then I am learning whilst I am teaching. I have learnt a lot from one student in particular who is a policeman who often contributes to class discussion.
I think it is fine that you questioned the instructor in a polite manner.
Did he give an explaination why his technique was better? Is it possible that his body shape is different to yours? Tall people find some techniques easier than shorter people and vice versa, for example.
If neither of you realised that this was the reason at the time, it would be natural to misunderstand each other.
Or perhaps the misunderstanding was because he did not fully explain why you were doing a particular technique. I often say "this is not particularly practical, but it is a good balance drill/a good stance test" etc.

If it was his pride that prevented him from properly listening to you then he has much to learn.
If it was a misunderstanding, you could discuss it further with him (probably best after the lesson rather than hold up the class).
As long as you stay respectful, he should not be offended.

However, if you are finding this situation often, it may be that this dojo is not the one for you.

Sorry for the long post, I hope you are still awake [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]
I hope my thoughts have been some help.
Sharon

Thanks for the input. I got another question which i think will be a touchy area and i hope i dont affend anybody. Whats the deal with instuctors, masters, sifu and etc. getting offended when their techniques or methods are questioned. I seen alot of upper ranks who think thery are like the "supreme being". Why is it that some people think that their style is the "end all style" and there is non better. Im not putting any one down, I admire people that respect there style and work hard at it, but if people would swollow their pride a little and open up their mind to new ideas, tips, techniques just think of the progress that could be made. I'm sorry I don't mean to ramble but i just feel that maybe its an ego thing or a power thing. Also I've heard that we can't study a second style without the permission of the sifu,it isnt like he can enforce it any way, whats it to him or anyone with what i do in my spare time. Again it seems like their ego would be against me broadening my knowledge.

Ego and arrogance is the short answer ironman.

Of course sometimes the instructor is 100 per cent correct, but a good one will explain why.

I am lucky in that the people teaching me are always open to discussion plus I know for a fact they know what they are talking about (they have worked in security/police force etc).

The thing about not going to another dojo without permission is ettiquette. I have had two students ask this recently. The first is a low grade who wanted to get some extra practice at another wado club. I suggested that this would confuse her because their kata is slightly different so she did not go.
The second wanted to add an aditional art to his training, he is currently training for brown belt in wado. I said it would be good experience, so he is going on Thursday.
I would never forbid my students to do this, but I do give them advice. Because they respect my opinion, they listen to it.
Hope I have helped.
Sharon

My Sensei never minds if we ask him why we do something a certain way, he encourages it, as adding to our understanding of the Art. In our style, performing a move, without knowing what you are doing or why is considered "wasted motion," and not only must we be able to perform the technique, we must be able to explain it.

I asked him why we move into a horse stance at the end of one technique, and we worked that one for quite awhile, until I clearly understood the reasons and the logic behind them. It was great. He cared enough about my progress to help me gain understanding.

Hi WW

"The thing about not going to another dojo without permission is ettiquette."

They do not need your permission to train somewhere else. I think it's good that they feel they can ask for your advice, but there's no reason to ask permission. It isn't yours to give.

"I would never forbid my students to do this, but I do give them advice."

You can't forbid your students to do anything outside your club. It's none of your business.

JohnL

John I agree with you. I did not mean to suggest that I have or want to have control over what my students do outside the dojo.

When I said I would not forbid anyone, I did not mean to imply that I have the right to do so.

Many dojos do make it a rule that students need to ask permision to train elsewhere and that is what Ironman was asking about. I think it goes back to the old "sensei is God" nonsense that many dojos try to maintain.

Sorry (and to you Ironman) if I came over a bit high and mighty, that was not my intention.
Sharon

Sharon no need to apologize i don't feel u came off high and mighty. I can understand the fact that u would feel it unecessary for your student to study the same style at a different club because of the slight difference in kata. You also mentioned that...

"Many dojos do make it a rule that students need to ask permision to train elsewhere and that is what Ironman was asking about. I think it goes back to the old "sensei is God" nonsense that many dojos try to maintain."

During the normal coarse of evolution everything evolves. As it evolves it usualy becomes better. So why does martial arts stress traditional and ancient training. Shouldnt styles let go of tradition and take part in evolution and in the coarse become more effective.