Learning without a teacher...

Is learning without a teacher/master possible? I'm not talking about books and movies and the like, I'm talking about sparring with your friends until you figure it out. That is unfortunately what I am relegated to, as my area of the world has no masters that I know of. Southern New Hampshire is a very boring place. In case anyway would like to help who is able to teach they can yell at me in here and I will give e-mail address as I don't really know how else you'll get it. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]


Just realized this was in the wrong forum thing, should have put it under teaching and learning, and don't know how to move it. If it can be moved by admin/moderator person please do so.

[This message has been edited by Kotetsu (edited 06-11-2003).]

Yep - it is a lonely raod to hoe and can either be the most productive or one that teaches bad form, and gives little.

I mean who taught the founders of any martial system? It eveolved, but for example, the first of Shoalin who systemised defense against routine acts of violence - they taught themselves and theorised - no one taught Bruce Lee Jeet Kune Do, he synthesised it.

I think if you have a blackbelt or a similar standard in a decent style, you can learn by training with others or out of books, provided you have partner.

Well that would be one problem. I don't have any formal training whatsoever. No black belt nothing. Just me, my mind, and my sparring partner. He has formal training so he can actually do somethings but I still haven't "lost" to him.

Learn as much as you can from him, push each other and try to find a place to formally train - don't be biased against boxing or western wrestling.

Listen to joesixpack, find anyone that can teach you something and then add to that knowledge with books and videos.

Also try and go to seminars when you can.

Also where do you live there? Have you tried some internet searches for some clubs that may be hidding out?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kotetsu:
"Is learning without a teacher/master possible? I'm not talking about books and movies and the like, I'm talking about sparring with your friends until you figure it out."

Possible, Yes. But by no means the best method. It's possible that you'll develop more technical problems than will be possible to cure. An instructor in an established method will give you a solid grounding from which you can build.

"That is unfortunately what I am relegated to, as my area of the world has no masters that I know of. Southern New Hampshire is a very boring place."

I did a quick google search in your area just by typing in karate. It showed up about 15 karate clubs in areas such as Milford, Nashua, Merrnnado, and Hudson. These are only about 7-8 miles fromHollis. I didn't try any more in depth search.
If this is the case, not finding an instructor is the wrong way to go.

JohnL

I agree with John, best case scenario has to be training under a good instructor.
As an example, I have a few students who decided to learn their next kata from a video. I advised them not to, I suggested learning it in class and using the video to prompt them during practise and to perfect their stances, once they knew the basic moves.
Anyway, they were impatient. They decided to ignore my advice and went ahead anyway.
Because they have not been training very long, they misinterpreted some of the moves.
It took me longer to "unteach" the bad habbits they had been practising than it would have taken to teach them that kata from scratch.
Think about having a look at a few of the clubs John talked about and give one or two a try. You could still practise with your friends at the same time as training in a structured lesson once or twice a week.
Good luck with your training whatever you decide
Sharon

Jut as a clarificatoin, I don't have a license yet and my parents really won't drive me anywhere. I walked to the karate studio thing I knew about in Nashua and didn't like what I saw. Although probably part of the way they teach the sparring(kumite?) was slow and semi-contact. As just a personal belief I don't like semi-contact but I could deal with that. The other is a monetary problem. No cash no training. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif[/IMG] But I discovered that there is a teacer at my high school who partook in martial arts in his college years and I was going to talk to him about maybe starting a martial arts club. The only other place I found was a Tae Kwan Do dojo/studio thing but he only teaches while I'm in school. But there is always summer.

Thanks for the advice everyone, it has been valuable, and I will try to get a job or something to afford teaching.

How about asking the schools/clubs if they offer scholarships and/or trades?

Learning without an instructor is possible but it would be much more difficult. I am not certain where you are located in New Hampshire, but here three schools in you state.

There are 3 locations in the State of NH.

KFK - ATA BLACK BELT ACADEMY
679 MAST ROAD
GOFFSTOWN MANCHESTER, NH

TAEKWONDO USA FAMILY FITNESS CNT
131 ROUTE 101A #20 & 21
AMHERST, NH


TAEKWONDO USA FAMILY FITNESS CTR
416 D.W. HIGHWAY UNIT G
MERRIMACK, NH

Kotetsu

Click the line below:
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=...hire%22&spell=1

Also, here is my standard "advice to beginners and those without senseis" package:

I recommend this historical text for learning defense. Go to the section on wrestling.
http://www.aemma.org/onlineResources/liberi/contents_body.htm



I'd also recommend downloading this book
http://www.usmilitaryknives.com/get_tough.pdf

Pay close attention to figure 8 and the accompanying text. The low side kick is a good way to cross the gap and follow up with a hand strike. I also recommend maintain the crouched position shown in the photo. This is EXTREMELY important. Read on to see why. Most of the stuff you'll find is defensive. Very rarely will you find commercial or free material demonstrating how to aggressively attack your adversary so really train figure 8 and use it as your main attack combination.



Erle Montaigue has done alot of research on psychology in fighting. Pay close attention to the section on the "reptilian brain".
http://taijiworld.com/download/RV.zip
http://taijiworld.com/download/Free_books.htm

He also offers more free stuff than you'll ever need but for now stick with this:
http://taijiworld.com/download/RV.zip



Darren Laur is a good source for information on the effects of fear and stress during a fight. This is the most important of his articles:
http://members.shaw.ca/tmanifold/anatomy.htm

And here are the rest:
http://members.shaw.ca/tmanifold/laur.htm



On these pages are some videos you can study:
http://emptyflower.stanford.edu/johnwang2.html
http://emptyflower.stanford.edu/johnwang3.html




There are some more free online manuals here:
http://www.get-tough.net/combat/manuals.htm



[This message has been edited by bustr (edited 09-02-2003).]

[This message has been edited by bustr (edited 09-02-2003).]

I got a job and have finally found a place to learn. Thanks for all the advice everyone, your help was much appreciated. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Hi Kotetsu

Before training at well established Martial Arts Club i used to train myself with books and videos!. Luckily i had a little Lau gar training from my sister's friend's boyfriend. But that was only basic stretching exercises, kicks and punches. The rest I did on my own. I looked at lots of different Martial Arts and I was very interested In Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do. I got very flexible but after a while it became apparent that I had nothing i could really call a style, I couldn't say I practiced one Art or the other, so I looked into actually learning at a proper club. Being painfully shy I went in the hope of trying Aikido but as soon as I got there I just felt so intimidated but luckily by accident when I was at a local sports centre i saw this poster for Kung fu, I rang up the intructor. He was very friendly and I have been doing it ever since, that was 5 years ago and i really enjoy it. I now have my Blue sash and another couple of years I should get my Black sash!

Shoalin,

Aren't we the little poster today! LOL jk Welcome to the forum.

Raul

I have the same problem as kotetsu. I live in Plano, Texas and I have some people to train with. There are alot of dojos in my area but i have no money to join them. Plz someone help me.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kotetsu:
Is learning without a teacher/master possible? I'm not talking about books and movies and the like, I'm talking about sparring with your friends until you figure it out. That is unfortunately what I am relegated to, as my area of the world has no masters that I know of. Southern New Hampshire is a very boring place. In case anyway would like to help who is able to teach they can yell at me in here and I will give e-mail address as I don't really know how else you'll get it. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]


Just realized this was in the wrong forum thing, should have put it under teaching and learning, and don't know how to move it. If it can be moved by admin/moderator person please do so.

[This message has been edited by Kotetsu (edited 06-11-2003).][/QUOTE]

there is no need to be shy about being self taught. I have done so myself and still am. But I do look for feedback from established and formaly trained martail artists and they see nothing wrong with what i do. In fact a few are a little wary to spar with me becuse my sparringpartner and I spar with full strikes armed or unarmed. There was one who saw us practicing stick fighting (stickfighting becuse I have influences in arnis and my partner in kenjutsu) and wanted to have a shot at it. But before he did i raised my shirt and showed him the fresh red welts on my arms and back and asked if he was ready for it? He promptly backed out.

But I have no doubt that there are teachers out there that can give you quality instruction, but if you can find none then figuring it out may be more difficult but fun. In a manner of speaking.

Sorta the same topic. How does a person practice the kicks correctly by themselves? My instructors are in a nutshell not good at teaching kicks. My sensei says he didn't learn kicks until he was a brown/black belt, and the other had to leave our school to learn. Kinda hard to believe as awesome as they both are. It's very frustrating and I know I have the potential to be a great kicker. I have natural flexibility, better static than dynamic. In fact, I naturally kick high, but am not confident or comfortable with. When I do, sensei tells me to kick lower but I can't. It saddens me that my instructors will not take the time to teach me, so I say forget them; I'll learn by myself which I don't mind but just don't know how. I'll do anything . . . ANYTHING you say. Change my diet, lose weight, gain weight (5 ft 7, 125). Whatever, just please help me.