Getting too skinny

So is doing intensive cardio one day, and intensive weights the next, with a high protein - regular sized diet like this yoyo you speak of?

'bulk n' cut' cycle of training = Concentrating on eating loads and lifting loads to gain both fat and muscle. Then losing the fat, and some muscle with intensive cardio afterwards. Is this correct?

Can't say I agree with you there Cord... I mean, the problem with bulking isn't with the concept per se, it's with how people abuse it. I'm always seeing these fat guys cramming pop tarts and saying they're 'on a bulk' - it's possible to increase your calories without letting everything go to pot. The main problem with bulking cycles, is that people guys think "oh, I'll just eat everything in sight, do no cardio, and lift weights - the more weight I gain the better!" This is obviously wrong, but it doesn't mean that bulking doesn't work.

I'll just talk about what I'm doing right now as an example of bulking that works - I've put on 11 lbs, almost entirely muscle, in a month. I eat 5-6 times a day, relatively healthy meals, drink plenty of water, and use milk for some extra, easy to ingest, calories. I'm not eating a ridiculous amount, but enough that I stay anabolic throughout the day. I may not be *as* cut as I was a month ago, but frankly there's very little difference (I still have a six-pack), it still falls within the acceptable <12% bf criteria I set at the start - hell, I'm nearer 10% anyway! I think that my experience proves that it is possible to gain relatively large amounts of muscle fast, without any supplementation (I'm not taking anything), meaintain a healthy lifestyle, and not bloat like Ronnie Coleman in the off season Of course, anecdotal evidence could make this the exception rather than the rule - I might just be lucky with the genetics (severe mesomorph as it is).

Anyway, looking too skinny... well, as COrd says, keep up your protein intake. If you can't get it through chicken/fish etc., then it's time to look at a protein shake, but don't bother unless you really can't get it any other way. The other thing that's worth looking at is how you distribute your calories throughout the day. Do you eat too little for breakfast, and too much for supper? Breakfast is an important meal, because you've just fasted for 7-10 hours (if you're getting enough sleep), so make sure you resupply your body.

Anyway, didn't mean to hijack the thread into a "bulking: does it work?" debate, but just thought I'd share a bit of personal experience

hehe, actually I'm not using any bodyfat machine - I'm just going on whether I've still got a six-pack Anyway, I'm going to qualify what I said slightly - it's probably nearer to 6 weeks, and who knows, I could have been a couple of pound heavier than I realised when I started. But still, the gains are suprising, and before I tried this I was in your camp... I'm still trying to decide what I believe on this myself

I'm weighing myself on the same pair of scales, once a week or so, and while I accept that a certain amount of environmental factors will cause innacuracies and exxagerate gains, I doubt it could have been by as much as that. Obviously, what I've eaten/drunk that day could also have an effect... but still, surely not enough to mask a progressive trend which shows a steady increase in weight?

tsk tsk Tim- you cant post specific results based on nospecific data

Remember that one of the main areas people store bodyfat is on their back, also the gluteal area. Your 6 pack is no indication of maintaining constant bodyfat while 'bulking', it may just be the last bit to go soft. Time will tell, but as i say, close to a stone of true lean mass in 6 weeks is very unlikely, sorry bud

Guy I work with, who is a former Mr. Ireland, said that at his peak, he was able to put on 8lbs (less than 4 kilos) of lean muscle a year.

He is retired now, but he can still shift some awesome weight. I still catch him kissing his guns from time to time...

This is what I do now:
Mondays: Martial arts and cardio
Tuesdays:
-Deadlifts 5*5
-Pull ups 5*5
-shrugs 3*12
-bicep curls 3*5
-twisting sit ups
Wednesday: rest
Thursday: martial arts, cardio
Friday:
-Front squats 5*5
-bench press 5*5
-dumbell military press 5*5
-tricep dips 3*12
-weighted crunches
Saturday: rest
Sunday: martial arts, punching bag

I don't eat that much for breakfast... but I'm starting now. BTW, I don't really have a six pack, but its close enough. lol. So is the routine I'm doing, make me gain a bit off mass and help my martial arts training, or should I switch to doing 5*8 reps?

Like Tim, when I "originally" did the HIT program for the first time I gained some pretty good weight in a short period of time. The weight I gained though was a combination of both muscle and fat due to the increase of food I was taking to grow and maintain these new levels; mostly muscle I'd like to believe. My gains were from 193 lbs to 204 lbs and later I got to 207 lbs. By 207 lbs my abs were not as noticeable with the exception of the morning and I really had to tighten them to see them. However that was the trade off I had to take for being able to lift as much, be as strong and to be as big.

Let me tell you, with joining martial arts and then later getting injured enough that I have to adapt and cannot do some exercises, these combined have dropped me down weight, size and strength. Talk about a big ego drop ... I shed tears from time to time in fustration. As of yesterday I'm 190 lbs and people can notice. I'm 52 lbs less just on my bench and not only has my chest decreases but my arms went from 18" to 17" now to 16.5" ... ahhhhhhhhhh! But I'm working hard and still have goals of getting back up there. I just have to eat more which I know I have not been doing as I'm never really hungry anymore and have to force myself to eat.

For Tim I do not doubt that he gained the weight he said but probably from the excess calories he is taking in, the weight he has gained is probably a good amount of muscle but the fat is not as great and is probably being distributed amongst his body better then most. Just from looking at Tim's results for many of his lifts and looking at his size ... wow ... he's got conviction, determination and heart ... something I envy. At a boy Tim.

Alex, on behalf of myself and others we are sorry for derailing your thread.

Looking at your workout it is not too bad at all. Your Tuesday is more your back work with some on your legs with the Deadlifts and some on your arms with the Bicep Curls. The Shrugs I've seen used both for back exercises and shoulder exercises. The Friday is Legs, Chest, Shoulders and Triceps ... quite the load ... but not too bad as the shoulders are incorporated in the Bench Press just like the Triceps are as well as in the Military Press. Do you find you are getting a good enough workout on the legs?

Good on you to start eating a better breakfast, one of the most important meals of the day. For myself just doing this I seen a change in how I functioned plus for proper weight loss ... which too many people do not understand and think by skipping it they are helping themselves.

If you want to gain some more mass then you will need to eat more but if you want to gain some more size as increase your muscle size, then certainly you can up your repetitions to 8-12 and. I would also suggest to take on more of a body builder's mentality and go to fatigue on your lifts, or at the very least on your last set.

I'm sure others will also pitch in here and may come up with some better suggestions.

Would gaining the mass by doing more reps make me slower and affect my martial arts?

Everybody is affected different so perhaps. Think of it this way instead ... say you never worked out at all and did Martial Arts. Now compare this with working out this way and ask yourself if you would be better or not?

From my own experience, I have worked out this way as well as the 5x5 strength rule. Some things in Martial Arts I exceed at and other things I don't and regardless if I worked out or not this would be the same way ... just with working out I believe ... no ... I know I am better then if I didn't work out.

Nobody says you have to work out like this forever. I find I have changed my work out plans numerous of times and I will continue to in the future. So if you decide to work out this way and you start seeing some good size and strength but later find that this is affecting some of your martial arts then change it later ... it is not set in stone. For myself, I have found that martial arts have affected my work outs more then my work outs have affected my martial arts. For myself it is about finding a balance between size, strength and functionality. I want it all but that is not possibe. Sure I'd love to be as big and strong as I was before and I strive for it but perhaps I won't get there but thankfully I have some functionality and still some good strength, and I'm not a small guy by any means ... so it isn't all bad.

My motto ... try it ... if you don't like it then change it later but give it a chance. Make it work for you.

alex, sorry for hijacking the thread , I like your workout- it is effectivley a 2 day pull/push split, and the volume involved is realistic. If you want to experiment with rep ranges, just pick one of your 5 rep compound exercises per workout, and adjust it to 8 rep failure. Keep your reps controlled and 'explosive', and you will continue to educate your muscles to move quickly. If you do every exercise slow, no matter what weight/reps you use, you condidion the body to act that way. I notice that you already use a more mass related rep range for your shrugs, I presume you never felt that that slowed you down? no reason other exercises in the same range should either- providing you work at the correct tempo.

You could even introduce a rep related periodisation to your workout.

Each workout you have 4 main exercises + core

Week 1: do all but 1 main exercise in 5 rep range/weight, the one exception is done 6-8 rep failure

Each week make one extra exercise 6-8 failure till in week 4 they are all done in that manner and it is effectively 100% geared to hypertrophy.

Week 5 drop it back to week one, with sub failure strength work and lots of rest- whilst working purely for strength, from a hypertrophy standpoint, you will be getting comparative recovery, and so will grow.

Thanks for replying everyone! If I added push ups to my routine, would this be total overkill? And if so, when should I do it? My routine is above.

I thought this over and what I would suggest is just stick with what you are doing for the time being. Later if you decide you want to try it then I would suggest putting them after your chest workout just to fatigue those muscles totally. By themselves they won't help you with size but may only give you some endurance ... and again you probably won't need them but ultimately that will be up to you. Play with things and see what works for "you". I've tried several things even when I was told they probably wouldn't help and most times those people were right but I had to find out for myself ... because sometimes they did. Remember it is your workout and you have to keep it challenging and fun for "you".