Respect In terms of age, belt, and skill

Posted by: MA_Student

Respect In terms of age, belt, and skill - 05/23/07 10:42 PM

I'm an orange belt in my school. Now in my school, discpline is almost a non-factor. The majority of students do not bow to higher belts as they should, nor do they address them as sir or anything that shows a simple sign of respect.

One time during sparring, I was sparring a student who was considerably younger than me, but one belt higher at purple. He was probably 11 if not younger, and I'm almost 19. After we sparred I told him he did good. And he replied, "thank you sir". Now "sir" is a term that is used as a sign of respect to a higher belt. This caught me off gaurd as I'm not used to this. So I simply replied, "don't call me that, I should be calling you sir."

Now we get to my main point. This student called me sir and he shouldn't have to, because he is a higher belt. However, at the same time his skills do not reflect the belt that he has and my skills have surpassed his level. Should I still be calling him sir?

Because yes, he has a belt that is higher than mine, but he doesn't have the mentality or skills to reflect that belt.

Do people understand my question? Cause I certainly have no idea how to phrase it
Posted by: clmibb

Re: Respect In terms of age, belt, and skill - 05/23/07 11:00 PM

I think I understand your situation. Basically who should be calling who "sir". IMO it doesn't really matter. If the kid is wanting call you sir then let him. Technically you are an adult, get used to it. I've been refered to as Miss (insert last name here) since I was 17. I show everyone in my class the same respect they show me. If I have our 10 year old green belt asking me a question (Ma'am does the block go like this or like this?) then I'll respond with a simple "Yes sir the first way you did it was correct." "Ok. Thank you, ma'am." "You are quite welcome, sir." To me it doesn't matter who calls who sir or ma'am as long as there is mutual respect.

Casey
Posted by: pepto_bismol

Re: Respect In terms of age, belt, and skill - 05/23/07 11:17 PM

Who cares? Are you going to karate school to train or to practice for a good old tea party?

People get to wrapped up on needing to be bowed to and having their ego stroked in various ways. I address the black belts as sir or mam only because it is a rule, and I bow to them because it is required.

I didn't join karate with the intention of making friends or gaining respect. Seriously, if somebody calls you sir... it's not like there asking a fat chick if she's pregnant.

Take it as a compliment or ignore it. I really couldn't care less if lower belts formally address me.

btw, people gain my respect by being cool or nice to me. A little bit of kindness can go a long way with me. An alternate way of gaining a differant kind of respect is if they are awesome in sparring.

But if they are older, a higher rank, mean or some kind of egomaniac... they better be awesome at sparring. Otherwise I could care less about them.

I could be weird in that way, but I feel connected with my wrestling partners, my karate sparring partners. The better the match, the more respect.

With Much Respect,
Sir Pepto Bismol the Uber Great one
Posted by: MA_Student

Re: Respect In terms of age, belt, and skill - 05/24/07 01:08 AM

I agree with both actually. If he wants to call me that I should let him.
As for the second post, I only do it because it's required. Well... not required but expected. But then once the higher belts have become friends with you they tell you to stop because the respect is already there.
And even though I'm still a pretty low belt, I greet kindness with kindness. And humility garners respect.

[=
Posted by: JM2007

Re: Respect In terms of age, belt, and skill - 05/24/07 01:12 AM

MA_Student,

In my opinion, there is never anything wrong with someone showing respect. In fact, it should be encouraged at all times. It doesn't matter what age, belt, or skill level, everyone should still be shown respect, especially if they are training in the martial arts.

When you are speaking in specific terms of who should address who as "sir" in this case, the only answer I can give is that it depends on your school. In my school, for instance, all children address all adults as sir or ma'am irregardless of rank or skill. All students address all black belts as sir or ma'am (but you must be a minimum of age 16 to test for black belt). Adults are not asked to address a young child who may, for instance, be one belt rank higher, as sir or ma'am, but they are still expected to show them respect and courtesy. That is expected of all students, to all other students. Senior students or beginning students, it doesn't matter, everyone is treated with courtesy and respect...just maybe not addressed as sir or ma'am.

I realize that some people only say sir or ma'am and bow because they are told they have to...if that works for them, so be it. I have always found that if you genuinely do respect other people, and treat them that way, you'll find that many doors open that would otherwise be closed. As a side note, most people can easily tell when courtesy extended is genuine or forced, and respond in kind.

Although some people may disagree, in my opinion, karate and courtesy go hand in hand. Funakoshi Sensei said that "Karate begins and ends with courtesy." The best example I can give of this is, when I was in Japan, I was invited to train at a particular dojo where Americans were not normally welcome...it turns out I had met a man on the military base where I was stationed, outside of any martial arts training, who I engaged in conversation with several times and was always very respectful towards. He turned out to be the Sensei of a local dojo, to my surprise. As we were talking one day and he asked why I was so interested in visiting different parts of Japan and learning about the culture, language, etc., I explained my interest in martial arts. He never indicated any association with a dojo or his own background, until quite a while later when he invited me to join him in training.

Please remember that every school is different, so make sure you ask a senior student at your school about what is appropriate. But I think most people will agree that courtesy should always be present.

I hope my little tirade was helpful. Respectfully, Jason
Posted by: Leonine

Re: Respect In terms of age, belt, and skill - 05/28/07 02:28 AM

Personally, I have mixed feelings on this subject. Given that I both instruct and train, I get to see both ends of the spectrum.

I feel that children should be saying their sir's and ma'am's to whoever is leading the class, simply because I don't think kids understand the difference between respect and admiration. Adults I feel should actually feel that respect and then choose to refer to higher belts as sir (although from my school only black belts get the title). For instance, when I first started teaching, my instructor made them call me sir, but I never enforced it with them. For awhile they didn't call me that, simply responding or thanking me for my help. But now they've taken to calling me it again, which I feel is much better than if I had forced them to do so.

So, to summarize; respect is something that should be earned and if you pay too much attention to it, I feel you may be missing the forest for the trees, but that's just me.
Posted by: MA_Student

Re: Respect In terms of age, belt, and skill - 05/29/07 01:59 AM

yea... my personal opinion is that yes it does need to be earned...

I don't expect people to call me sir, I just expect a general sense of respect that should not just be shown to higher belts, but everybody in general. Bowing to me is a way to preserve the art in a sense.

Respect does need to be earned. Especially because my master runs his school in more of a mcdojo kinda way...
Posted by: schanne

Re: Respect In terms of age, belt, and skill - 05/29/07 04:08 PM

It's few and far between that a young man has that much respect for his elder. His parent must have tought him well you don't see it that much anymore. I tell students that when "you walk through that dojo door it another world in here and you must obey our etiquette rules". Once in a while there are some that don't need to be told and it's such a pleasure.
Posted by: wristtwister

Re: Respect In terms of age, belt, and skill - 05/29/07 11:58 PM

Schanne,
This is part of the documentation I give my students:

Value the people who train with you. Instill in yourself a respect for them, and in your students a respect for each other. Life's journey is long, but the skills of living are important, and meant to be shared. Living correctly is more important than being important, for only through living correctly can we become important.

Seven Principles of Bushido
Gi – Right Decision, Right Attitude, Truth, Rectitude
Yu – Bravery, tinged with heroism
Jin – Universal Love, Benevolence toward mankind
Rei – right Action, courtesy
Makoto – Utter sincerity, Truthfulness
Melyo – Honor and Glory
Chugo – Devotion, Loyalty

Uphold those principles, and the physical part of martial arts will come to you.

Posted by: puffadder

Re: Respect In terms of age, belt, and skill - 05/30/07 04:07 AM

At the end of the day it comes down to the guy who runs the school sets the rules. Some are very hot on discipline, respect for elders, etiquette and so on. Others not so and prefer students to have their own self discipline and earn the respect of others. I'm not sure if one way is better than the other but I wouuld think a school that teaches children would need to be hotter on the discipline and respect than an adult only school. My school is adult only and have never had a problem in this area. Also Japanese schools tend to be a lot hotter on correct protocol than traditional Chinese ones.
Posted by: wristtwister

Re: Respect In terms of age, belt, and skill - 05/30/07 06:34 AM

I tend to agree with you, Puffadder, but I've had some adults that needed "time out" as much as the kids. They're the ones that don't respect the other students enough to play at their level. We always extend what students can do, or it isn't teaching, but we don't brutalize them. The problem with adults is ego as much as discipline.

Posted by: puffadder

Re: Respect In terms of age, belt, and skill - 05/30/07 09:54 AM

We get some of that occasionally, the guy whose ego is far greater than his skill level. But they soon realise that they impress nobody and either calm down and learn to fit into the group or quickly leave and go elsewhere.
But you're right that many schools do brutalize their students and that is no longer teaching but bullying. There is a fine line between pushing someone to extend their limitations and pushing them to make you feel good about how much better you are than they are. I do push my students but I watch for the signs and I don't do it all the time. We have some sessions that are mostly on theories, principles, tactics and breaking techniques down that aren't tough physically but get the brain working and others that range from challenging sessions to occasional killer sessions. however the students appreciate the variety and the knowledge that not every session is a brutal one so they get the recovery time they need.
Posted by: schanne

Re: Respect In terms of age, belt, and skill - 05/30/07 11:26 AM

Bushido is a great concept, it doesn't have to be practiced to the extreme as the Samurai once did, but it's pricipals are sound and effective. It's a good creed to live by and teach and I wish more traditional MA schools would carry the torch....good job.
Posted by: wristtwister

Re: Respect In terms of age, belt, and skill - 05/30/07 09:18 PM

They kept Bushido in the manner it was designed for military living at that period in history. It was strict and brutal, but the principles of it made strong warriors and good rulers, which people tend to forget that Samurai were in many cases. They ruled villages and large groups of people, so they needed more than just their fighting skills to get along.

"The way of the warrior is the resolute acceptance of death", and to be revered as a leader, they needed to exhibit all those attributes of Bushido... not only their fighting skills.

I try to teach students that "respect" has no measure of time. Rather than simply running into the dojo and "bobbing their head" as many do, I want them to come in and respectfully bow, and take the time to be respectful of "those that have gone before". It isn't for me or anyone in the dojo at the time. I feel that if they're in a hurry, they should have started sooner, rather than "throw at" being respectful. Class starts with or without them, and if we only have one student.

Posted by: schanne

Re: Respect In terms of age, belt, and skill - 05/31/07 02:34 PM

You sir have a great attitude!
Posted by: MA_Student

Re: Respect In terms of age, belt, and skill - 05/31/07 04:09 PM

Quote:

Also Japanese schools tend to be a lot hotter on correct protocol than traditional Chinese ones.




What about Korean ones?
Posted by: wristtwister

Re: Respect In terms of age, belt, and skill - 06/01/07 06:40 AM

My experience with the Korean schools was limited to a couple of Judo schools and my TKD teacher's. The form and operation of those schools was pretty much along the same lines as the Japanese schools, only a little more strict on operational methods.

In the TKD school, we padded up and "let it fly" to anywhere except the head kicks, and for those, we needed to use the "full face" wire masks. I always hated them, because vision was limited by the "slits" in the front of them.

I enjoyed playing there.

Posted by: ITFJJ

Re: Respect In terms of age, belt, and skill - 06/04/07 02:57 PM

I think that sometimes people forget what "martial" means in martial arts.

Definitions of martial on the Web:

soldierly: (of persons) befitting a warrior; "a military bearing"
warlike: suggesting war or military life
martial(a): of or relating to the armed forces; "martial law"

Regardless of the fact that belts only came in vogue in the modern martial arts era, every student of every master knew who was their senior and were very much aware that there was a "rank" system. Therfore there is supposed to be a respect for those who have attained greater rank.

Also, most of the arts and the philosophy behind them emphasize respect for elders. That respect would often be different than the respect for rank, but it is still expected.

Much like other military environments, you will run into people of greater rank to whom you will have to show respect because that is regulated. Some of them will prove worthy of this respect, some will not. Either way, it is not the lower ranking or younger students' place to decide to show or not show respect. I thiink that it is a sad testimony of how far "traditional" MA has migrated from the original concept that there are so many schools that don't expect this. Further, if a student at a traditional school refuses to follow the customs, then why keep them as a student. If the answer is money then the school is more interested in gain than the preservation of their art.

If the higher ranked or older person is being abusive, then of course it should be an issue that is brought to the head instructor.

JMHO
Posted by: stormbringer

Re: Respect In terms of age, belt, and skill - 06/04/07 06:30 PM

Where I go, the instructer is referred to as "sir" or "ma'am" as the case may be. Otherwise, we respect each other regardless of age or belt color, really a combination of both, but belt color usually tops. The reason being is that everyone has something to teach, it's just not the same subject.
Posted by: Ronin1966

Re: Respect In terms of age, belt, and skill - 06/04/07 07:06 PM

Hello MA Student:

It sounds like you might be confusing the proverbial package with the wrapping? Compelled signs of so called "respect" risk being a complete, bold faced lie solely because it is compelled. A forced group norm does not make an individual change internally necessarily.

A child calling an adult by whatever title seems appropriate behavior generically but I always wonder why they do so.. (ie whether it is earnest!) Calling a child by such titles by an adult is also respect but clearly genuine if not compelled.

J
Posted by: freedom_warrior

Re: Respect In terms of age, belt, and skill - 06/06/07 05:36 AM

A reflection on a pool of water does not reveal its true depth

Belt has no meaning except to show what you have accomplished, it doesnt show what you have obtained in skill. i know your problem and as a sign of respect dont call him sir, just call him friend or brother. people should not be looked down upon by higher belts.
Posted by: Dauragon c mikado

Stupid names. - 06/06/07 06:22 AM

I only call people 'sir if I don't know their name, or to avoid calling them a stupid title like 'shihan' or 'renshi'.
Posted by: crablord

Re: Stupid names. - 06/06/07 06:27 AM

I called my shihan "dude"

screw him, im paying for the lessons.
why should I call him anything other than everyone else
Posted by: evad74

Re: Stupid names. - 06/06/07 06:31 AM

lol
Posted by: Taison

Re: Stupid names. - 06/06/07 11:47 AM

I call my master 'friend', 'brother' and 'teacher'.

-Taison out
Posted by: BodhiHuss

Re: Stupid names. - 06/28/07 12:04 PM

Quote:

I called my shihan "dude"

screw him, im paying for the lessons.
why should I call him anything other than everyone else




If your Shihan had any respect for himself (or a set of balls), he would kick your ass and ban you from the dojo. Unless, of course, he just wants your money. If so, you are training at a "McDojo"--go somewhere else. Why would you study under someone you have no respect for?
Posted by: BodhiHuss

Re: Stupid names. - 06/28/07 12:17 PM

Quote:

I only call people 'sir if I don't know their name, or to avoid calling them a stupid title like 'shihan' or 'renshi'.



Why do you refer to "shihan" and "renshi" as stupid titles? Are "Doctor" and "Professor" also stupid titles? I realize these titles (among others) are often abused, but they are not, by any means, stupid.
If you can't show respect for your teacher and his/her senior students, you should find some other place to train. If your teacher is legitimate, he/she deserves to be called shihan, renshi, kyoshi, etc. If not, why do you train there?
Posted by: KickSlipTrickYa

Re: Respect In terms of age, belt, and skill - 07/26/07 11:49 AM

Although most GOOD MA teachers want to be called something with a bit of respect and be bowed to. I can also see why one may wish to be called "dude", "bro", "teach", well maybe teach is a stretch, but its more personal the way I see it, don't try it unless you know however.
Posted by: wristtwister

Re: Stupid names. - 07/26/07 06:47 PM

What a lot of schlumps don't realize is that the courtesy of martial arts is military courtesy. It is courtesy with regard to rank and years of service, and it comes from a society where those things are held reverent. The Chinese equivalent is "teacher" or Sifu.

My daughter is a captain in the Air Force, and I can't imagine her calling her superior offices "bro" or "dude". She worked her way up from airman to captain, and is well entitled to be addressed with respect. Martial arts titles are no less "earned".

My training partner has taken two trips to Japan to test for his "Renshi" title in kyudo, and it has taken years of training, sacrifice, and practice to earn that title... so "dude" doesn't cut it on any level.

People constantly want to know what's wrong with martial arts, and it starts with disrespectful students who think that their bucks somehow give them a pass on doing it right. Unlike many schools, I select the students I train, and some schmuck with a smart mouth and the "dude" complex won't get any instruction beyond the "class routine". Those that show an interest, are respectful, and work hard get anything I can give them to make them better. Is that discrimination... damn right... and it's "earned" discrimination. I can find a pinhead out there anytime to teach, so I can also take my time and find those that will both appreciate what I teach them, and pass it on in the same manner.

Come into one of my classes with a mouth like that, and you won't have to worry about getting special treatment... you won't be invited back. There are too many people out there that really want to learn "the way" rather than just "how".

The fighting side of martial arts is easy to learn... it's the disciplined thinking, training, and understanding that takes "special training"... and that's where the true value of MA lies. I don't expect anybody to fall over when they walk into one of my classes, or be condescending either, so simply respecting someone as the teacher, a shihan, or "titled" teacher doesn't cost extra... but any teacher worth his salt can make "being disrespectful" cost a lot.

The old saying is that "when I want your opinion, I'll beat it out of you"...

Posted by: eyrie

Re: Respect In terms of age, belt, and skill - 07/26/07 07:32 PM

Quote:

Although most GOOD MA teachers want to be called something with a bit of respect and be bowed to. I can also see why one may wish to be called "dude", "bro", "teach", well maybe teach is a stretch, but its more personal the way I see it, don't try it unless you know however.


There's a big difference between being "personal" and being too casual. The difference is deference, not apathetic indifference.... "dood"
Posted by: Dauragon c mikado

Re: Stupid names. - 07/26/07 07:56 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I only call people 'sir if I don't know their name, or to avoid calling them a stupid title like 'shihan' or 'renshi'.



Why do you refer to "shihan" and "renshi" as stupid titles? Are "Doctor" and "Professor" also stupid titles? I realize these titles (among others) are often abused, but they are not, by any means, stupid.
If you can't show respect for your teacher and his/her senior students, you should find some other place to train. If your teacher is legitimate, he/she deserves to be called shihan, renshi, kyoshi, etc. If not, why do you train there?




My reasons are that if somebody wants to be called that in this country then they're probably an asiaphile, so I'm not going to help encourage their little wannabe lifestyle.

I don't and wouldn't train under a samurai wannabe who insists I call him a silly name because he's been indoctrinated into thinking he's not a moron or he wants to feel like he's a "grandmaster".

And I also wouldn't call him by 'shihan' or 'renshi' because in his way of thinking it implies that he's better than me because of a piece of cloth and slip of paper that he wants everyone to see.

You never heard Ali insist you call him "the greatest" or "champion of the world" because they were his earned 'titles'.

I address to show appropriate respect, not mislead or be submissive.
Posted by: wristtwister

Re: Stupid names. - 07/26/07 10:02 PM

Quote:

And I also wouldn't call him by 'shihan' or 'renshi' because in his way of thinking it implies that he's better than me because of a piece of cloth and slip of paper that he wants everyone to see.




Well, Bro... he IS better than you. Otherwise, you wouldn't be studying with him... he'd be studying with you.

All that mundane idiocy you triped out just shows that you have an issue with someone else having authority... specifically over you, but authority in general. You can call it "Asiaphiles" or whatever you wish, but authority commands respect... and if you don't respect it, you don't learn the very basics of martial training... for "martial arts begin and end in courtesy".

Bowing is the custom of the area where the arts developed. Respect for the dojo is respect "for those that have gone before"... as in your teachers.

Pretty much, you come across as a disrespectful little twerp who has a chip on his shoulder regarding authority, and making up reasons to set yourself apart from the martial arts discipline doesn't make it any better. I honestly can't imagine any sensei worth his salt that would waste his time teaching you anything of value about martial arts. You simply have no appreciation of what they are all about... and I don't mean that as a personal attack, but as a judgement of what you've said in this and many other threads.

The world class teachers I've known have all been humble, but commanded respect simply because of how accomplished they were. I don't really think you'd last long around them. I've seen some very skilled fighters get sent to the showers for attitude... and if you ever wonder why you aren't getting any better, look inside... not at everybody else.

Posted by: eyrie

Re: Stupid names. - 07/26/07 11:18 PM

I don't know Grady... young people these days...
Send 'em to "Brat Camp" to learn 'em some manners and get an "attitude adjustment".
Posted by: crablord

Re: Stupid names. - 07/27/07 12:26 AM

I actually with Duaragon.

Respect should be earned, not just given.
And a stupid piece of rope doesnt get any respect from me.
Especially since we're PAYING the "sensei, or shihan" money for the classes, basiclly keeping a roof over their heads.

I think if your getting lessons for free they should command that respect, but making people bow for the sake of bowing to you every 10 seconds just [censored] everyone off.
Posted by: Dauragon c mikado

Re: Stupid names. - 07/27/07 03:03 AM

Quote:

Well, Bro... he IS better than you. Otherwise, you wouldn't be studying with him... he'd be studying with you.




Just how are they better than me? All their belt and 'rank' represent are the number of years (how ever few or many) sucking up to their 'masters' and that they've learnt the knowledge that their governing body has wanted them to which most of the time rarely involves much that applies to actual fighting (which is what I'm after by the way).

Quote:

All that mundane idiocy you triped out just shows that you have an issue with someone else having authority... specifically over you, but authority in general.




Actually it shows that I'm not going bow down every 10 seconds and say "yes sensei" because his belt is blacker than mine.
I don't have a problem with authority as long as the bearers are deserving of it, and in most cases people who revere idiocy just don't fit my criteria.

Quote:

You can call it "Asiaphiles" or whatever you wish, but authority commands respect... and if you don't respect it, you don't learn the very basics of martial training... for "martial arts begin and end in courtesy".




'Authority' doesn't command respect, beneficial content and action command respect.
Most people learn courtesy as a basic life skill, saying MA teaches this is just a point for false advertising because your not seeing 'courtesy', your seeing a person instilled with a sheep's mentality through their 'training'.

Quote:

Bowing is the custom of the area where the arts developed.




Why would I wish to develop a custom that doesn't apply to me or my surroundings?

Quote:

Respect for the dojo is respect "for those that have gone before"... as in your teachers.




So by this logic, do you bow whenever you enter a library or a museum? Plenty of people have 'gone before' in these locations haven't they? And why not the other countless places of historical value? Got back ache yet?

Quote:

Pretty much, you come across as a disrespectful little twerp who has a chip on his shoulder regarding authority, and making up reasons to set yourself apart from the martial arts discipline doesn't make it any better.




I'm not disrespectful, I just like having dignity.
And just what have I made up? care to disprove anything I've said like your last post appeared 'not' to do?

Quote:

I honestly can't imagine any sensei worth his salt that would waste his time teaching you anything of value about martial arts. You simply have no appreciation of what they are all about...




For me martial arts are about studying and working towards becoming a better fighter, just who gave you or anyone else the right to decide my reasons for me? And I already said that I wouldn't want to train with a moron who calls himself 'sensei'.

Quote:

and I don't mean that as a personal attack, but as a judgement of what you've said in this and many other threads.





Quote:

The world class teachers I've known have all been humble, but commanded respect simply because of how accomplished they were.




Um...what 'world class' teachers are these? Even the 'half decent' teachers I've known got respect because they show their students respect, not because they think their students somehow owe them it because of their past.

Quote:

I don't really think you'd last long around them. I've seen some very skilled fighters get sent to the showers for attitude...




Was it really because they were being disruptive or offensive? or because the 'sensei' couldn't get over their inferiority complex?

Quote:

and if you ever wonder why you aren't getting any better, look inside... not at everybody else.






Good thing it's an 'if' because I've only ever noticed improvement for as long as I've trained.
Stop assuming things about me and get over the fact that your idea of improvement isn't the same as everyone elses.

This post has been edit for content. The post was in violation of FA rules.
Posted by: eyrie

Re: Stupid names. - 07/27/07 03:39 AM

When I did my time in the army, there were a few officers that I had the utmost respect for. And then, there were others that didn't deserve a smidgen of respect, simply because of the kind of person they were.

Nonetheless, one was expected to salute an officer, because the consequences of not doing so far outweighed the momentary indignity of going thru the customary motions.

Whatever your sentiments may be, most TMAs are built upon the ideals associated with militaristic discipline, honour and respect. That is not to say that one could ascribe such customary traditions as akin to sheep-like behaviour. You don't have to kowtow, but you are expected to respect seniority and rank.

As we say in the army, salute the rank, not the man....

To answer the original poster's question, if the color of his belt indicates that he is senior to you in rank, then the "correct" etiquette is for you to bow or address him appropriately. Irrespective of whether he is older or younger than you.

Age is not necessarily an indication of seniority. If he is senior by virtue of belt color, or having been there longer, then the "proper" thing to do would be to respect his "seniority".

It's easy to be proud and dignified, to think you are equal to or better than another. But it takes a really big man to show humility.
Posted by: crablord

Re: Stupid names. - 07/27/07 05:03 AM

Quote:

As we say in the army, salute the rank, not the man....




exactly. And the differences between karate and the army are -

A) noone gives a [censored] what rank you are in karate
B) in the army doing your own thing is jailable.

So in my books if an instructor cant handle being called " mate" then hes a [censored] and I probably wont train under him.
call it arrogant but like i said before respect should be earned.
Posted by: wristtwister

Re: Stupid names. - 07/27/07 06:26 AM

Crablord, you and Duragon are the best examples of what you claim to despise... you want "recognition and respect" without giving it to others, and don't recognize it... which is sad.

You can teach a pig to be mean and hurt people, but in the end, you still have a pig. Martial artists should be more than that.

While a black belt is a measure of skill, it is also a measure of the man or woman wearing it if its properly issued. What's missing from you guys is a sense of honor. A true black belt is someone with a large and forgiving heart, who has learned that with skills come responsibility. As teachers, they pass that on... as they become shihan (great teacher) their skills go beyond simply passing on the technical movements and having great skills.

Since obviously neither of you guys have any understanding, I don't expect you to understand that. You're simply a "me for me" person, and destined to only have a visceral view of life. Many of the writings of great philosophers could guide you if you would only understand, but the best advice comes from the Bible... "Lean not to your own understanding".

Self-teaching anything is a really bad idea.

Posted by: oldman

Re: Stupid names. - 07/27/07 09:27 AM



Where in the world did you get the idea this was remotely acceptable behavior on the FA?

What is your problem?

What am I as an Administrator supposed to do with this?

I don't care if the only thing that matters to you is being able to fight. I dont care if you were Fedor Freaking Emelienko. I don't care if you can fight.

I do care if you start tossing this kind of stuff around.


Oldman