sexism.

High there! i am new member (i practice/ed WC, judo and american kickboxing) but been reading for a while. anyway i want to see your views on sexism.
I was in a bar with my girlfriend and she got into a fight with this other random girl.
The random girl assumed a souther shaolin stance and was about to deliver a kick aimed to the knee when i intervened and sent her to the floor (with out causing anything more than a couple of bruises).
I know you are not supposed to hit women, and now i am getting sued by that girl for assault, and she claims that she had no martial art experience (which is bs since i do wing chun and i know what a shaolin stance looks like). Anyway, my point is what do you do if confronted by a female MA and she wants to fight?

I really don't see how this is sexism. It could just as easily have happened if it was a man who attacked. If you were indeed defending your girlfriend and left the building immediately after dumping the woman on the floor, you might have a case to defend yourself in most courts. (as long as they consider what you did reasonable)

When a person attacks with deadly (lethal) intent, they are often treated the same in the eyes of the law (in principle at least). If someone is intent on harming you then gender should not make any difference. Women can be just as vicious and violent as men and imho should be defended against in the same manner with reasonable force.

[This message has been edited by Leo_E_49 (edited 04-11-2005).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MAGr:
High there! i am new member (i practice/ed WC, judo and american kickboxing) but been reading for a while. anyway i want to see your views on sexism.
I was in a bar with my girlfriend and she got into a fight with this other random girl.
The random girl assumed a souther shaolin stance and was about to deliver a kick aimed to the knee when i intervened and sent her to the floor (with out causing anything more than a couple of bruises).
I know you are not supposed to hit women, and now i am getting sued by that girl for assault, and she claims that she had no martial art experience (which is bs since i do wing chun and i know what a shaolin stance looks like). Anyway, my point is what do you do if confronted by a female MA and she wants to fight?[/QUOTE]

I don't think it's about sexism. Legally, you are only permitted to use least amount of force needed to put down an attack or assault. That is regardless of the attacker supposedly knowing martial arts. You, being a trained fighter will probably be held to a slightly higher standard in the view of the court, than the average citizen.

Because someone apparantly assumes a recodnized attack position, you still have to temper your response. Putting the girl on her behind might have been the proper response. But, that is what the civil court will decide. I would be thankful you were not criminally charged. That is much more painful to experience than civil court. Good Luck.

Thanks guys,
I am lucky that i didnt face criminal charges since apparently i am the only one that noticed her MA ability. Or maybe it was in my imagination! doubt it.
Do i have to demonstrate to the court that i had indeed the reason and right to react?
do i have to demonstrate what a knee break looks like and that any one can do it. their decision will be based on who they beleive most.
What i would like to know is how you guys would react after confronted by a female MA.
Would you go all out, never underestimating your opponent or would you concede a few blows and an ass whooping for the sake of the fairer sex. I dont think i could chain punch a girl's face in.
Also, how dangerous do you reckon she was, she never had a chance do demonstrate her level of skill, she had some kung fu training, but how dangerous can a female MA be to a guy? (granted she is not using Dim Mak)
I have never trained with a girl,
and i wouldnt mind a girl's opinion on this either.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MAGr:
Thanks guys,
I am lucky that i didnt face criminal charges since apparently i am the only one that noticed her MA ability. Or maybe it was in my imagination! doubt it.
Do i have to demonstrate to the court that i had indeed the reason and right to react?
do i have to demonstrate what a knee break looks like and that any one can do it. their decision will be based on who they beleive most.
What i would like to know is how you guys would react after confronted by a female MA.
Would you go all out, never underestimating your opponent or would you concede a few blows and an ass whooping for the sake of the fairer sex. I dont think i could chain punch a girl's face in.
Also, how dangerous do you reckon she was, she never had a chance do demonstrate her level of skill, she had some kung fu training, but how dangerous can a female MA be to a guy? (granted she is not using Dim Mak)
I have never trained with a girl,
and i wouldnt mind a girl's opinion on this either. [/QUOTE]

Well firstly, I think you overreacted so you are definitely lucky you didn't get any criminal charges. A knee break is quite a permanently damaging technique and I would debate that given the situation it was unreasonable force.

Depending on the country, you could be well within your rights to defend yourself if you think you or someone else will be put in harms way.

You can never just go "all out" on anyone. You have to use restraint or you will be in for criminal and civil charges. You may only use reasonable force to react to a situation in most countries, regardless of who the attacker was.

Even if I was attacked by a woman MA I would try to exercise restraint and only use appropriate force. But I wouldn't hesitate to elevate the level of force to the level required to escape the situation.

Firstly, i apologise for the confusion but i didnt go for a knee break. SHE was shifting her weight to do a rear stamp kick (which is usually targeted at the knee).
I am probably not as experienced as you, since I dont think I would be able to evaluate the necessary amount of force. the two times i have been in a fight (that does not include this time) I just told myself to do it and get it over with, use what i know well and make sure they are incapasitated. I think by the time you realised that another woman might be good fighter it may be too late. At least that is the case with a guy. If you wait to see the skill level of a guy, it might also be too late.
In any case, it was a pretty surreal experience being that i have never hit a girl and dont intend to, after that incident.

With regards to evaluating the necessary amount of force, there is a difference between, for example an knee break and a roundhouse to the nerve cluster on the inner thigh. One will permanently injure and the other will not, but both will drop the person. In a life threatening situation, a knee break would be justified but in a situation where you are only being threatened by a single, unarmed individual a roundhouse to the inner thigh is more reasonable.

I don't know about where you come from, but here in the UK, as long as you think what you're doing is reasonable force at the time of attack, you're well within your legal right to use that force.

If you are unable to judge the amount of force necessary, you need to train more in controlling the strength of your techniques and also ask your instructor about judging the skill level of your opponent and responding with the appropriate techniques. Don't ever go overboard or too easy, MA is all about control.

[This message has been edited by Leo_E_49 (edited 04-12-2005).]

Get them on the floor or otherwise neutralised without hurting them, if possible. That is reasonable force. Anything additional moves it into the 'unreasonable' category.

I beleive what you did was the right thing. A female MA can be much more dangerous than a male for this very reason, being underestimated. I have trained many times with my Shidoshi's wife, and she is no push-over.