Fulltwist punch vs 45 punch argument

This is my opinion of the Full twist punch (you find in boxing, tkd, karate) VS the 45 deg one ( found in many kung fu styles and JKD.) that has the fist vertical alignned instead of horozontal.

Point 1.)

The punches are not different.

Not different you say? But how can they? Everyone talks as if they are!!

Place your hand at your belt level then natural extend outwards into a long distance straight punch. You will notice your wrist gradually rotate from wrist up to wrist down.

The full twist punch is how your punch looks when you attack an oppnent at long range punching.

oppenent is closer? stop midway your hand will not have rotated the entire way additional your elbow will be more or less facing down.

what am i getting at? Same punch, different distance. Sound too simple to be true? it is and thats why its probably right.

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Point 2.)

Along this argument usually comes an argument that states well which knuckles should make ocntact? should it be the bottom 3 pink ring and middle knuckle ( jkd kung fu styles) or should it be the index knuckle and middle knuckle ( full twist punch)

What determines which knuckles make contact? In each of the different punches - short vs long - look at which knuckles are supported by the forearm and the shoulder.

For full twist punch the index and middkle knuckle are in line with the elbow and shoulder - thus supporitng the force. FOr half 45 punch (midway) the bottom 3 are more in line with the supporitng elbow and shoulder.

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When peopel argue between one style vs another and which is better and why - i just get so irritated at times now because unless you understand the mechanics of why the movements are what they are - you're jsut blindly defending your own selfish vested interests.

I agree that the punches are effectively the same. They are merely a means to an end. Whatever technique you use, if it leaves the opponent on the floor and you still standing, it's a good technique.

I disagree with you, however, on the point that distances affect the punch. Unless a punch is fully extended, it does not transfer your body's momentum and relies on less powerful muscle strength for effect.

I believe that the index and middle knuckles are more structurally sound for punching hard surfaces where as the outer knuckles are more effective for impacting soft surfaces. The reason being that the outer knuckles tend to be used on stronger punches (e.g. hook) but can take damage in the form of the Boxer's Fracture. The index an middle knuckles are not the primary knuckles which are broken on punching a hard target but are used in less powerful punches (straight and twist punches).

Don't try to fit a square peg into a round hole. Use each technique for what it's good for.

I am convinced that a 45 degree punch is the correct way to punch (bone/muscle alignment etc.) and that a full twist punch could injure your own self.
Can you hit the solarplexis correctly with a full twist punch? No,it crosses the ribs.
Your hands hang naturally at a 3/4 turn.
When you fully turn your fist you are wrenching the forearm muscle and crossing the small bones of the arm thus making it weaker.
The punches are completely different.In 1906 when karate was introduced into school systems ONE of things they watered down was changing the punch to full so the kids wouldn't hurt themselves.It doesn't matter the difference.
Why did you open a new topic instead of where this discussion was already going on?

Full twist punch is often employed by boxers to cut the face of an opponent. For example place your fist on your face at 45 and twist it hard. Imagine that at full power and you can see how that would cut an opponents face even with leather gloves on.
In tkd the 45 punch does not count for a point in some tkd associations sparring matches. However that doesn't mean it is never used. The korean name for a vertical punch is sewo chirugi.
I personally think that a 45 or vertical punch is the fastest way to deliver
a punch. However I do use both methods.

[This message has been edited by rikd (edited 04-03-2005).]