Full twist punch

I am convinced that a 45 degree punch is the correct way to punch (bone/muscle alignment etc.) and that a full twist punch could injure your own self. Does anyone agree or disagree with this?


THE BROTHERHOOD OF ALL AMERICAN GOJU KARATE..

I've found horizontal punches are good circular movements, vertical I believe is most effiecent alignment. diagnol I believe are good for low straight strikes. Thats just how I use them though horizontal are natural with sidesteps such as a sidestep and hook. Vertical good for straight in attacks and counters.

with the 3/4 turn punch (what you called a 45 degree), your arm bones are parallel. With a full twist punch, your arm bones cross each other, weakening the structure. A good punch is 3/4 turn.

Keep in mind, though, that you should only use ANY punch when going for a soft target. It's not a good idea to punch someone in the forehead [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

Shadowfax. You are tracking!! Hit soft with hard/ hard with soft(palm heel/shuto).
How would you address a hook or uppercut in terms of proper alignment?
I don't think a vertical punch is right either,though some swear by it.Seems like it has you hitting the small knuckles too much. Too easy to hurt yourself that way.

As for any punching technique being more dangerous to the puncher than the other, where's the proof?

Thousands of people are throwing every sort of punch daily. Thousands are striking makiwara, people, etc.

If there was any emperical proof a punch was dangerous we'd have people lined up in the hospitals from their errors.

The truth is there is only opinion on any style of punching and practice.

As for how a punch lands, all of them have various options.

For example when I strike with a vertical fist I'm only using the lead knuckles to strike, never the little one's. Other styles use all of them or land the little knuckles, or land the little ones and roll to the lead ones. And this doesn't begin to cover all the vertical punching options used by different styles. All of which have been done for decades.

Everyone will believe whatever the wish, but for proof, get the proof first, then make the argument.

Victor Smith
bushi no te isshinryu

Regarding small knuckle punch.

In seyunchin kata, right after first 3 movements in shiko-dachi, there is a technique executed with the small knuckles.
Although it holds the middle between a push and a punch, it is kind of a short range technique and is supported with the other hand. Has good value in clinching and pushing/pulling.

Never had injuries applying this technique.

It is said that the hand has ten weapns and only one is the fist.
There are various strikes with all types of uses.
I think for the straight punch the 3/4 turn is best for alignment.I can't prove it it's just my opinion based on my experience.
How many things in karate can you prove?
People will argue all day about the sidekick, bottom of the foot/heel/or blade.I know which works best for me ,but I can't prove it to someone who's been doing it different for years.
In the end it's best to use what works for you best.Hey if it works use it. I've tried the vertical punch and didn't like it.But I know people who swear by it.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SANCHIN31:
Shadowfax. You are tracking!! [/QUOTE]

Actually, I just can't type. there was supposed to be a "NOT" in there instead of the "only." Sorry for the confusion. You are completely correct - what I meant was you should never use a fist to hit a hard target, because then you tend to hurt yourself.

Addressing a hook is the same for me - I don't twist the hand, but it's in the 3/4 alignment when it impacts.

Uppercuts aimed at the chin, I go at it with an open hand so I don't break my fingers on the jaw. Uppercuts aimed at the body - -honestly I rarely use 'em. If I'm close enough to land an effective uppercut under their solar plexus, I'm close enough to trap. . .

Has anyone ever seen a one inch break executed with a full twist punch?

can someone show me a picture of the strikes?

http://home.earthlink.net/~actonkarate/Gi%20Cho%20Hyung%20Il%20Bu_files/image010.jpg

That's a full twist punch
http://home.earthlink.net/~actonkarate/Gi%20Cho%20Hyung%20Il%20Bu_files/image022.jpg

That's a 3/4 turn punch.

Crappy images, but hopefully they'll give you the idea. Basically, hold your right fist out, palm down. That's the position for a full twist. Rotate it clockwise until it's diagonal. That's the position for a 3/4 turn punch.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by CVV:
Regarding small knuckle punch.

In seyunchin kata, right after first 3 movements in shiko-dachi, there is a technique executed with the small knuckles.
Although it holds the middle between a push and a punch, it is kind of a short range technique and is supported with the other hand. Has good value in clinching and pushing/pulling.

Never had injuries applying this technique. [/QUOTE]

Could probably add, this technique in the kata is to the SP or abdomen where there is no bone. I wouldn't want to even hit someones rib with my small knuckle.
The twisting of this, (pivoting within the open hand) adds nice power for such a short range strike.

also, I stopped using full twist when my knuckles got eaten up on the bag and makiwara. I do 3/4. Also there has been research in the 70's "Physics of Karate" by Feld and Mcnair 'Scientific American' mag. that full twisting adds only negligible power.

good topic.

This article was re-published in an 1983 American Jounal of Physics...it took forever to find in electronic form and cost me $15...I don't believe ANY information should be that difficult to get.
here it is for you free:
http://www.geocities.com/what_dayaknow/ajp0983.pdf

you might need a bit of a math background to get the details, but the conclusions are what we care about right?

spread the love, people.
[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/cool.gif[/IMG]

Very interesting article kara-atama. The math is a little difficult but it does explain the physics of striking.
I also agree that the full twist punch does little to add to the power of a strike. However if you twist the punch on impact around the cheek bones and eye socket it can tear the skin.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hank:
can someone show me a picture of the strikes? [/QUOTE]

A 3/4 punch is how your hands are positioned at 10 and 2 on a steering wheel.
A full twist is palm down.

kara, a good article,but I'm afraid the math is above me. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

SANCHIN31 quote:I am convinced that a 45 degree punch is the correct way to punch (bone/muscle alignment etc.) and that a full twist punch could injure your own self. Does anyone agree or disagree with this?
I believe that the 45 degree is a faster way to execute a punch. I belive this is so because of bone muscle alignment. However if you strike the board with the bottom knuckle it can be painful.
A Full twist punch also has its uses just as an uppercut which is twisted in the opposite direction. However if the wrist is turned to far in on a full twist punch, striking with the bottom 3 knuckles instead of the first 2, the wrist could be sprained and the bottom Knuckle injured.
I think that when executed wrong either punch can cause injury to oneself.

I belive that the vertical 3-knuckle punch is the best way punch. This is what Hung fai Yi ppl do. They punch verticaly but, only with the last 3-knuckles and the fist is at a 45 degree angle.(the top of the fist is pointing a lil bit outward)Also,hiting upward like an uppercut.Just try doing it.It feel very natural and very easy to get your "whole body" into it.