Links between Aikido and internal development

Yeah, that's what I was trying to express there. What I meant was that just sitting in horse stance for an hour isn't necessarily an internal exercise--though it can be used as one.

--Chris

Post deleted by Ames.

Don't go through four threads advertising your site please!

Perhaps you'd like to explain in your own words, why it would be interesting to us and how it is relevant to what we're discussing here?

Because, personally, I don't see how Systema is relevant to this topic or forum - since there is nothing in Systema that is even remotely related to Aikido or internal development.

For starters, I don't believe the alleged breath practices of ancient Russian Orthodox monks are even the same thing. OK, so maybe Ryabko and Vasiliev can "do" some pretty kewl things, but I don't think they're quite the same thing. Perhaps, you could be more specific and say why you think they might be "of interest".

hi,

thought to blend in with Aikido now that last series of posts is in a babycradle lock:)

In my time w/ Oshima Sensei, well we did some static exercises that were nearly identical to the internal development I've practiced with Gurudev Amrit Desai (of course with Oshima Sensei we were in seiza or tachi, in the dark cold mornings of winter wishing/praying to take ukemi).
Basically a type of guided meditation leading into continuing slowing breath.

Perhaps, as I am unfamiliar w/ standing bear in Aikido, there is a direct link to Zen Buddhism as such postures go...Attended several Sesshin in the Mountians and Rivers order Soto and Rinzai Monastery...Sitting, Standing and Walking all as positions for meditative practice.

Interesting possibility introduces idea O'Sensei vanished for a while and trained in India or China ( or with a Tengu in the Mts ) Also home of Dogen, Japanese Master who traveled to China and brought Zen to Japan leading to my brutally streched connection on internal development and Aikido....

****China-Chi Kung, Taoism, Zen, Chin-Na
India-Buddhism, eight arms of Yoga
O'Sensei--Life of Practice allows him to absorb the best of visit to or study w/ Indochinese and create Aikido and by learning realized the best of Indochinese MA always incorporated internal energy development.

cool?
P.S. I feel Aikido, like so much in life, can never be understood, I spent 6yrs w/ Oshima Senesi and had then just begun to see how deep the rabbithole was. I feel kinda positive that Changing instructors might only hinder "understanding" of Aikido. I dont even understand what I just said

hi,
eyrie, yeah teaching MA via demonstration and adjustment easier than didactic dissemination, as when I taught Nuclear Med or A&P (especially in this type of post and wait mode) lead me to a convoluted verbal vehicle.

So yeah, I am so obtuse and unfamiliar with this mode of communication, I apologize.

To my connection First: (lying down NOT a given option as it leads to sleep considered a lower level of consciousness)
(Also Siddhartha is not a god and not the only Buddha, currently we are blessed w/ HH the 14th Dalai Lama, Buddha of Compassion)

I agree and was emphasizing that O'Senesei had more Zen Buddhist, Indochinese influence during especially his later years where the man who used to smash bricks on his head (Plz Ref text "Abundant Peace") emphasized Love of others over destruction.

My connection could simply been...

1.) O'Sensei trained physically and mentally over his entire life (perhaps w/o having a particular goal in mind) and so made himself the perfect receptacle to receive
2.) The external techniques of Chin-Na and other locking and throwing techniques already assimilated AND
3.) Given #1 O'Sensei realized that these Varied Practices of Internal Energy Development (Yoga, Qi Gong etc.) came to fruition only if practiced in a healthy trained body (or invert concept:the inetrnal development requires a trained healthy body).
4.) He may have been misinterpreted as his level had surpassed any student but made sure that even without understanding internal development, the postures and practices would be passed on...and in the ultimate realize Love and Compassion can only bring "Abundant Peace" (Lets avoid the power of the proper Itemi O'Sensei can be seen executing for now...OR START A NEW Thread/stream/whateveryacallit)

Any better? I'm used to MA and future Allied Health Care Professionals in my face asking questions or halting digressions. Often my preamble, if absent, would only invoke what I'm typing NOW....I may not be so...eloquent?
PS


only yourself and everyone have replied to any of my posts, THANKS. Others have, but it was usally the orig poster, posting me a post to bend the spork

P.P.S.-give me feed back- does bulleting my opinions help??

Well Karl, this IS a MA FORUM - not a class where one gets to prance and pony around in front of a bunch of adoring students. Therefore, the communication modality here, I think, is far less didactic than it is dialectic.

I suppose, bulleting your opinions does help, insofar as it enables you to better communicate your ideas and arguments. But not if it doesn't make logical sense or reinforce your argument.

Firstly, I doubt if Ueshiba ever had any direct Zen Buddhist or, as you say, "Indochinese" influence. There is certainly no record of him studying to any great depth with any teacher of Zen, when it is clear from various sources that his primary influence in that aspect has always been from Oomoto-kyo Shinto - itself a bastardization of various Shinto, esoteric Shingon and Shugendo philosophical practices.

As for "Indochinese", perhaps you meant Indian and Chinese - because Indochinese has quite a different connotation, and refers to a native or inhabitant of specific areas within the SE Asian peninsula. In any case, I don't think that's quite right either, Buddhist influences on Shintoism had occured during the Nara period, at least a millenium before Ueshiba's birth. Although there is evidence of Ueshiba's sojurns to China and Mongolia, there is no record of Ueshiba having travelled to India, much less travelling to either continent for the purpose of studying yoga or qigong.

So, how did he, who began life as a sickly and frail child, come to the realization of these varied internal practices, outside of such direct influences? No doubt he trained hard and physically, as evidenced by various accounts - but are you suggesting that one could simply become the perfect receptacle and acquire the essence of "internal energy development" through similar "physical training" - whatever that is?

Or, could the simple explanation be that something in Deguchi's teachings made it "click" for him (and for his nephew Inoue - who although not as well known as Ueshiba, was just as insightful a man of budo as Ueshiba was), and which enabled him to synthesize aspects of various martial arts that he had sporadically studied in his youth, and in the short time that he had studied with Sokaku Takeda?

hi eyrie,

points taken. Thanks, sorry bout the semantic issues and my sucks syntax.

Knew about the Shinto mysticism, just tossing a concept as history is never fully correct, as with most things in life.

No such thing as a class of "Adoring" community college kids used to being spoon feed, more like a pack of wolves going for a kill (if they 'taint falling asleep @0700)

Soooo...new topic?/?

--karl

Written history never is... but isn't that the whole purpose of a forum? To discuss and debate these things logically? To sort the wheat from the chaff?

New topic? Sure, why not... feel free to start a new one.

hi eyrie,

(Promise not off Aikido topic, verbal sparring used to be fun)

Thanks, I'll pass for now, as I see what a forum can be involves changing variables not bound by the constraints of absolute logic, I am not worthy to propose a topic as it might involve Inductive Logic.
Thus automatically invalidating the topic as there is not way to Absolutely preclude the falsehood, and thus ensure the truth of the final conclusion via how you seem to see the absolute of what a forum IS (aint lookin for a dickshunary definition of forum niether;)
(as you seem to see it as a place for argument based on logical truths and logical falsehoods bound by the constraints of deductive logic where even a literal translation of another persons word choice is fair game to invalidate their premises and so the credibility of their conclusion even though we both know that an argument with false premisses and/or a false conclusion might nonetheless be valid and an argument with true premisses and conclusion might nonetheless be invalid) love Faulkner and that stream of consciousness writing style.

-respectfully remaining, Karl