How long can you handle ukemi?

Posted by: AkhilleusWeeps

How long can you handle ukemi? - 10/06/05 03:31 PM

I was wondering how long you guys can handle doing ukemi with the basic Aikido techniques such as shomenuchi iriminage, shomenuchi shihonage, and munetsuki kotegaishi? (at a moderate pace, taking into account speed and accuracy in movements) Also, would setting up a system such as 30 foward rolls, 2 minutes of knee walking, 30 backward rolls, etc. higher your endurance during ukemi? I mainly ask because I've noticed how body conditioning is a big part of many MA's and the sort of execises relate to the body parts most used.

Sorry if I'm asking newbular questions but the more I practise Aikido the more I realize how little I know.
Posted by: eyrie

Re: How long can you handle ukemi? - 10/06/05 07:03 PM

It depends on who's throwing... If it's Sensei, I'd be lucky to get thru 10.

Ukemi is how aikido develops body conditioning and endurance. The importance of ukemi cannot be understated. It is the more important "half" of the art. However, ukemi cannot be performed independently as a solo exercise. It needs to be done as a paired exercise in order to derive the maximum benefit of the exercise and the art.

IOW, get thrown as much as possible, as often as possible, by as many different (higher level) people as possible. And you'll find that your aikido technique will improve 10-20 fold compared to someone else who does half as much ukemi as you.
Posted by: AkhilleusWeeps

Re: How long can you handle ukemi? - 10/06/05 07:39 PM

Ah, thank you. =]

Your reply also makes feel a bit better about my tendency to jump at the chance of being Uke while practising with Sempai. It feels in it self like teaching.
Posted by: csinca

Re: How long can you handle ukemi? - 10/07/05 03:00 PM

Quote:

It depends on who's throwing... If it's Sensei, I'd be lucky to get thru 10.



I've actually found that when being thrown by sensei it was much easier. My fall was often simply a continuation of my attack. Contrast this with working with a beginner where your attack is often met with force, stopped and you need to generate energy again to take a fall. Then you look at the mid-level nages and it's somewhere in between.

Unless of course sensei is in "one of those moods" in which case, I concur with < 10 repeats.

But I whole heartedly agree with the advice "get thrown" do it alot, get the highest ranking person you can grab (carefully of course) and ask them to toss you around for 5-10 minutes. Don't focus on their technique but focus on your ukemi until it is second nature. The beautiful thing is at this point then you can truly start feeling their technique.

Oh, once you get tired, stop so you don't take a lazy/bad fall and put yourself out of practice. I had one lazy roll result in a dislocated knee and one result in a dislocated shoulder.

Chris
Posted by: AkhilleusWeeps

Re: How long can you handle ukemi? - 10/07/05 03:42 PM

One observation I've made while practising tired is that in order to continue you must let your body be loose and nimble in order to let nage's energy take you rather than you expending yours helping him move along and thus your ukemi is much more natural and nage feels the full extent of resistance and technique. Ofcourse I'd never do such a thing with a new person but those above me in skill always manage to get me to fall perfectly with out me expending much energy.

Also, wouldn't practising till exhaustion increase your stamina/endurance? I'm not trying to get better over night, but if they're things I can do such as this, I feel I should.

Anyone agree/disagree with either of my two statements?
Posted by: eyrie

Re: How long can you handle ukemi? - 10/07/05 05:38 PM

In reality, it's uke being responsive to nage and vice versa. When you are physically exhausted and your body has expended it's last ounce of energy, push thru it and something else will emerge that feels like it is driving your body, rather than pure muscular power.

When you hit that point, when you are so tired you cannot lift your arms, you should switch roles and become nage. It will do wonders for your nage-waza.
Posted by: AkhilleusWeeps

Re: How long can you handle ukemi? - 10/07/05 06:19 PM

That last reply reminds me about Aikido and age, how as you get older you relly less on muscle and more and more on hara ( I'm guessing since you loose muscle as you age). I'm thinking practising till exhaustion is one way of artificially insuring that you will use minimal muscle.

All good replies, looks like I have more to think about.
Posted by: eyrie

Re: How long can you handle ukemi? - 10/07/05 07:22 PM

Nope, (to both). As you practice you should get "stronger" (not in a muscular sense). Your use of "power" becomes more refined and contradictorily, more "powerful".

Pushing yourself to the point of physical exhaustion is designed to allow you to experience what it (really) means to "flow" and to "extend" - i.e. what "real" power and "strength" is and where it comes from.