Aikido v.s krav maga

ok guys.. i am an aikido practitioner... and i heard one of my friends in the dojo saying that krav maga (isreali martial arts developed around the first conflicts between it and palestine) is alot more violent and alot faster and stronger than any martial art there is... only someone told me that the only martial art fast enough for it is aikido.. is this true?

OK, I'll do it so nobody else has to.

Don't put too much effort comparing which style is faster, harder, better, more effective etc.... It is the individual that will make that difference.

Different arts/styles will emphasize different concepts and applications; and the training methods will differ but when it comes to putting things into practice it is all about the individual.

As for Krav and Aikido, I'm training in both and I like them for different reasons

Chris

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ShAaBaNgBaNg:
i heard one of my friends in the dojo saying that krav maga (isreali martial arts developed around the first conflicts between it and palestine) is alot more violent and alot faster and stronger than any martial art there is...[/QUOTE]

Krav Maga is simply another style of modern military combatives--don't believe all the hype.

Being a member of the tribe.......I found interst in Krav Magr back in the 70's. The original art was great, and some Israeli's still practice it the original way. Back then, it was like Jewish Muay Tai. But the populice got their hands on it and now alot of it is like Tae Bo. Chris why don't you tell everyone the combat boots and camoflouge story? There is the practice and then there is those who play Israeli Commando. Done right, it very effective. In the early days the first attack was a kick to the knee to cripple the attacker. Not so much now though huh Chris?

I'm not familiar with how Krav has developed and I've only been to one place to train... but from what I've read and seen, Krav Maga is becoming another commercial enterprise and some of the "quality control" is slipping.

I'm training in Krav for some specific reasons including a good old fashioned workout and a lot of bag work for praticing strikes. Where I a training, the Krav class is pretty much divided into two groups: The larger group is just there for the workout (weight loss, toning, cardio...) and the much smaller group is experienced martial artists from different backgrounds exchanging ideas while using the Krav Maga cirriculum as the starting point. One other thing I really like about Krav Maga is I get a lot of practice with knees, elbows and low kicks; all effective weapons in my opinion.

Just like any other art, I think the further you get from the roots, the more different the art looks and feels. In this case there is also a commercial aspect.

Sensei Lou, the boots and camo was actually my experience with a Systema seminar, not Krav. But I think Systema is going to be the next art to hit the spotlights. Next year we will be seeing posts that say "a friend told me that Systema is the real deal, best art ever from Russia and nobody can touch it".

Going back to the original post here, I would think it is pretty foolish to say that a Krav Maga punch is any faster than any other punch.

As for being more violent than aikido, well that ain't hard. Most of the cartooons I grew up on (Bugs Bunny, Road Runner, Superman) are more violent than the "peace, love and harmony" neutralize the attacker but please don't hurt him" generally associated with aikido.

Chris

I have been training in Krav for a year now.
There are three levels

Cardio Krav which is basically Cardio kickbox
with some self defense thrown in.

Then there is Civilian Krav which is still being taught in the raw form, the same form the IDF (Israeli Defense Forces) uses (we eye gouge, groin kick, strike to the throat.)

Then there is the Law enforcement Division which is very close to the civilian class, but pays close attention to using reasonable force.

The quality control is Amazing! I don't know how anyone can say that its diminished.
If and when I test for Brown And Black Belt I have to go to Natanya, Israel or The NAtional Training Center in LA. There are only a handful of black belts in the world, and most instructors are only certified to test you up to green, brown and black are by invite only!

The issue is simply Krav being marketed as Self Defense, which it is, but its much more Military oriented. They don't advertise it this way because theres more money in self defense!

Anyone interested should try a class. It is by no means watered down.

TOPitbull;

I'm glad to hear you are having a positive experience and are sticking with the Krav. Keep in mind that there may be other schools that aren't as "true" as yours and might be teaching a watered down version.

We recently had a guy come into our Krav class who just moved to the area. He had a bit over a year at another place and signed up on the first night. A week or so later he cancelled out after determining that we focused on too much contact.

Now maybe we do but I'm happy where I am. Obviously this other gentleman thinks Krav is something different that I do. I make no claim to know the true Krav or anything like that, I just know that I like what I found and it happens to be called Krav.

By the way, my instructor has been through all of the certifications at the LA center, for whatever that is worth.

Chris

I think that trying to compare Krav Maga to Aikido is like trying to compare chalk to cheese.

Aikido as we know is a non aggresive self defence.It was designed to teach your attacker the error of his ways as peacefully as possible.
Krave Maga is to teach someone the error of his ways by any means nessasary.
Thats my definition anyway.

[This message has been edited by Karl (edited 12-03-2004).]

i know nothing of aikido but picked a book on krav maga up in my local bookshop a while back. my senseis were so impressed they tracked down and bought their own copies.

i train in gkr karate, amongst other things, and dont groan, we're quite nice guys and as interest in kobudo and krav maga shows, open minded guys..

back to me, my interest in krav stemmed from the fact that i intend to go into the armed forces in two years........ i have to say, the book looks good....

>As for being more violent than aikido, well >that ain't hard. Most of the cartooons I >grew up on (Bugs Bunny, Road Runner, >Superman) are more violent than the "peace, >love and harmony" neutralize the attacker >but please don't hurt him" generally >associated with aikido.

I always find it quite amusing when people talk about martial arts that they actually know little about. There are many different styles of Aikido varying from those that focus on Ki to those that are a little more shall we say extreme. My style of Aikido is based on the Yoshinkan style of Aikido, but a little more aggressive. There is a reason afterall why the Tokyo Special Riot Police use Yoshinkan Aikido in their training!

To call it a soft art is really not to understand it. Many of the moves would considered devastating to many. One move will often end a fight outright since you can't fight on if you wrist or elbow has been broken. I personally know of a new Shodan who was recently attacked by 3 youths on his way home from training. He disabled 2 of them with relative ease in a matter of seconds. The 3rd ran off when he saw this.

AikiJim,

I didn't mean to imply that aikido was soft but if you look at the art as a whole (yes I know there are many styles...), and look at the writings and teachings of O'Sensei and most of the first generation deshi, you tend to get a bit more focus on harmony and "not hurting the attacker" than you do in other martial arts. In fact over the last few years as I've gone to visit other aikido dojos I've been told more and more that my aikido feels more like aiki-jujitsu.

Contrast this with Krav Maga (going back to the start of this thread) and you won't find much talk of harmony or being nice to the attacker. Philosophically, the two arts have a different focus or at least some of the practitioners like to pretend they do.

Note that I'm not saying that one art is better than the other and if you notice my first post on this thread I currently train both.

Chris

[QUOTE]Originally posted by senseilou:
Being a member of the tribe.......I found interst in Krav Magr back in the 70's. The original art was great, and some Israeli's still practice it the original way.[/QUOTE]

Does it have any relation to Moshe Feldenkrais?

He wrote a book for, I think, the Hagganah, in the 1920s, on jujutsu, based on his experiences in the riots. The book paid his way to France, where he studied electrical engineering and helped design the VandeGraf generator with the Curies. He sent a copy of his book to Jigoro Kano, who was demonstrating judo in Paris, and Kano brought him in as a direct student. Feldenkrais founded the Judo and Jujutsu Club of Paris in the 1930s.

Does Krav Magda have any roots in what he taught in the 1920s in Palestine?

I am new here, but would like to chime in on this subject.

I am currently studying Krav, however I have studied Aikido in the past on two occasions. Both times were very short as one was when I was young and there was only one instructor in the Philly area, however the instructor moved away within a month. I tried again when I was in the Army, and again, the instructor was transfered. There also seems to be a lack of Aikido instructors/masters in my area.

I enjoyed the grace of Aikido, and now I enjoy the movement and power of Krav.

The only problem I have, is after multiple rolls on the matt..it is hard to jump up and hit the focus mitts. I am having trouble overcoming the dizzyness... I'm 50, a weight lifter and a runner...but this kicks my butt..

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RangerG:
after multiple rolls on the matt..it is hard to jump up and hit the focus mitts. I am having trouble overcoming the dizzyness... I'm 50, a weight lifter and a runner...but this kicks my butt..[/QUOTE]

You need some rolling practice without the striking at the end.

Stop after each roll and learn to root yourself, get your information from the soles of your feet and pick an unmoving "target" spot to look at. Do this over and over. See the spot before you roll, then when you come up, fix your eyes on that spot and feel your center and the soles of your feet. Gradually, you can adapt and come up striking.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by aikikiai:
You need some rolling practice without the striking at the end.

Stop after each roll and learn to root yourself, get your information from the soles of your feet and pick an unmoving "target" spot to look at. Do this over and over. See the spot before you roll, then when you come up, fix your eyes on that spot and feel your center and the soles of your feet. Gradually, you can adapt and come up striking.

[/QUOTE]

My thanks for your wisdom on this training issue.

RG