speed breaks!
Posted by: TKD_X
speed breaks! - 05/23/08 09:41 PM
so i tried an unsupported reverse punch speed break today. one where you drop a board and hit it in midair. first time put a nick in sabunim's wall
when it didn't break. he told me to do it in the parking lot. what that did was put me in front of the community skatepark and all of the thugs associated with it. so i hold up the board and let off a mean ki-hap. by the time i went to punch it they were all screaming back at me. i had one more unsuccessful go after that. then i asked my friend to just hold the bottom so it would still be relatively unsupported but at least not moving. that was when it finally broke. so i went back in the dojang as the skatepark applauded. now i'm home icing my knuckle
. i don't know if it's broken, it'll be a pretty shade of blue tomorrow. anyone want to share some knowledge of breaking unsupported or relatively unsupported 1-inch boards?
Posted by: jeff_andle
Re: speed breaks! - 05/23/08 10:54 PM
Quote:
so i tried an unsupported reverse punch speed break today. one where you drop a board and hit it in midair. first time put a nick in sabunim's wall when it didn't break. he told me to do it in the parking lot. what that did was put me in front of the community skatepark and all of the thugs associated with it. so i hold up the board and let off a mean ki-hap. by the time i went to punch it they were all screaming back at me. i had one more unsuccessful go after that. then i asked my friend to just hold the bottom so it would still be relatively unsupported but at least not moving. that was when it finally broke. so i went back in the dojang as the skatepark applauded. now i'm home icing my knuckle . i don't know if it's broken, it'll be a pretty shade of blue tomorrow. anyone want to share some knowledge of breaking unsupported or relatively unsupported 1-inch boards?
Hitting a moving board is a fool's errand. i bet most of the damage to your knuckles happenned then. Especially plastic rebreaks.
Have a friend dangle it between thumb and finger and hit it knuckles on the line you want to break.
Posted by: BrianS
Re: speed breaks! - 05/24/08 01:45 AM
What's the purpose in this?
Posted by: oldcoach
Re: speed breaks! - 05/24/08 03:21 AM
Ah...to climb the mountain because it's there, to break the mid-air board because it CAN be done, to ring the door-bell and run away...such is the call of the human spirit that is free...and the intemperance and bravado of youth
Ah yes, I was young once...
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anyone want to share some knowledge of breaking unsupported or relatively unsupported 1-inch boards?
Yep.
Leave them things to Bruce and Jean-Claude
Posted by: VDJ
Re: speed breaks! - 05/24/08 09:38 AM
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Ah...to climb the mountain because it's there, to break the mid-air board because it CAN be done, to ring the door-bell and run away...such is the call of the human spirit that is free...and the intemperance and bravado of youth
Ah yes, I was young once...
Quote:
anyone want to share some knowledge of breaking unsupported or relatively unsupported 1-inch boards?
Yep.
Leave them things to Bruce and Jean-Claude
Actually I have to admit watching GM He Il Cho throw a board about 30 feet into the air and break it with a spin hook kick was pretty impressive. Oh, I forgot to mention he was blindfolded as well. No real purpose other than entertainment I guess. If you REALLY want to challenge yourself, try a Louisville slugger with your shin 
VDJ
Posted by: TKD_X
Re: speed breaks! - 05/24/08 01:37 PM
i just wanted to see if i could do it. just like breaking 5 boards is a demonstration of strength and precision, speedbreaks demonstrate...speed. there are less risky ways to do it like having someone hold a small part of it, but if i ever wanted to do it in demonstration, it would look better to do it solo. keep in mind i didn't throw it up. i just held it with one hand, dropped it, and punched with the other hand. the reason i was practicing is because i have a 2nd degree black belt test approaching and i am contemplating which tecniques i would like to break with. i wanted to know if i could do it to save myself some promblems on the test day in front of the grandmaster. now i know i'm gonna have to have someone hold part of it. just trial and error. board breaks are experiments. if you don't challenge yourself, how can you excel. would you do the same break you did at your white belt test at a black belt test? probably not, because each time you challenge yourself to do a little more. i've done reverse punch power breaks, now i wanted to try something more difficult. so no one here has ever tried a speed break? as much as i appreciate your criticisms (not being sarcastic, i do appreciate them), i was rather looking for advice on the execution of a speed break.
Posted by: Andymcc
Re: speed breaks! - 05/24/08 02:55 PM
Well for my 3rd dan test I did something similar. However it was not a punch, where your knuckes could take some real damage with the slightest change of angle of the board. I would stear away from that... just my own opinion.
But for mine, I did the same idea as yours, but it was with a spinning hook kick. My left arm started straight out, holding the board in front of myself. I tossed it up... about 2 feet, and executed the spinning hook kick to come around and break it as the board lowered.
On the upward toss, the board rotated, but did not change it's centerline, if you know what I mean. It took some work to get that toss right to keep the board from angleing even the slightest bit sideways as it fell. I spent quite a bit of time just practing the toss before I even began to practicing trying to kick it. Once I got the feel for exactly how to toss it, the rest of it was mostly timing the kick. That might be something to spend some time on that will help you if your pursue this type of break. Give mine a try... you might like it better than the punch, it will keep you from breaking your hand, and it's pretty flashy and impressive if you can pull it off.
Good luck with your break and your testing.
Posted by: flynch
Re: speed breaks! - 05/24/08 05:35 PM
For our 2nd dan test you hold the board with one hand and break it with the a ounch from the other (partially supported)
For our 3rd dan test you toss the board in the air and break it in mid air (unsupported)
Posted by: VDJ
Re: speed breaks! - 05/24/08 05:39 PM
You want to challenge your self? Break 50 boards in 30 seconds. Set up stations with say 5 boards each, travel down each station breaking with the technique of your choice. Really want to challenge yourself, do it without spacers.
VDJ
Posted by: TKD_X
Re: speed breaks! - 05/24/08 05:59 PM
i'm not too sure about the 50 boards in 30 seconds. i think for my upcoming test i'll end up doing a barely supported roundhouse kick due to the fact that my knuckle feels...crunchy today.
Posted by: TKD_X
Re: speed breaks! - 05/25/08 12:02 PM
just as a quick update, my knuckle feels a lot less like a potato chip today.
Posted by: EarlWeiss
Re: speed breaks! - 05/25/08 03:25 PM
Doing bone on boardnbreaks without "Conditioning" first would be like running a 1/4 mile a couple of times a week and then deciding you will run 5 miles. Your body will let you know it was overstressed.
Posted by: StuartA
Re: speed breaks! - 05/25/08 08:01 PM
Speed is the key here and follow through for unsupported breaks, more follwo through than normal as you have to take into account the lack of support to the board.
Of course, as Earl says, ensure your knuckles are fully conditioned first.
Wood boards are easier to do this with than rebreakables because they have more grains and require less accuracy.
Stuart
Posted by: TKD_X
Re: speed breaks! - 05/25/08 09:26 PM
i was doing it with a wood board. now as for conditioning, i was only doing 1 board. i've done 2 supported with a reverse punch before. honestly i was surprised that it wouldn't break. you can even see dents where my knuckles hit.
Posted by: jeff_andle
Re: speed breaks! - 05/26/08 01:31 PM
yes, it's amazing what won't break when you take away support. I am a strong, slow kicker. I have broken the rebreakable equivalent of 6 boards with the right support and even then the mechanical holder and the two people on it moved 6" without the boards breaking on three attempts.
The force applied needs to be so sudden and with such complete followthrough that inertia prevents the board from just accelerating under impact. I would be lucky to break more than 1 board with a speed break with any foot technique other than front or round and still not much more.
My hand techniques perhaps are fast and strong enough for speed breaks but it's just not on my "to do list".
Posted by: TKD_X
Re: speed breaks! - 05/26/08 03:01 PM
well i'll be testing for the first time in front of a grandmaster. i wanna make sure i look good. i want to set myself apart from my peers. good thing i tried this break first so i don't look stupid at my test.
Posted by: Dereck
Re: speed breaks! - 05/26/08 04:12 PM
Speed break with hand ... try a knife hand instead.
Posted by: TKD_X
Re: speed breaks! - 05/26/08 05:05 PM
i was actually considering a knife hand. i'll have to see. speaking of knife hand speed breaks, have any of you ever seen someone chop a full beer can in half completely unsupported?
Posted by: jeff_andle
Re: speed breaks! - 05/26/08 05:22 PM
I would use a ridge hand or else REALLY work on absolutely proper rotation. There is less chance of hyper-extension on the ridge hand from trying to speed up a technique and throw in power beyond what you have practiced.
Also (for a dropped board) there is a natural tendency of a knife hand to slash downwards slightly, adding to gravity, while a ridge hand tends to rotate upwards, directing the strike against the falling of the board.
Posted by: EarlWeiss
Re: speed breaks! - 05/26/08 10:55 PM
For speed breaks with the hand try to employ the concept of "Additive Speed" If you stand in one spot and do a knifehand then the speed of your hand i how fast you move the hand. Say 50 MPH. Now if yu can coordinate a stepping action toward the board while moving the hand and if you step at 20 MPH and coordinate the motion properly your hand is moving at 70 MPH relative to the stationary board. Easy to show. Tough to explain in writing.
Posted by: TKD_X
Re: speed breaks! - 05/26/08 11:11 PM
i think i understand what you mean. how would one apply that to a punch. just pivoting? or dare i say it? sine wave? the first one i could manage
Posted by: jeff_andle
Re: speed breaks! - 05/27/08 06:27 AM
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i think i understand what you mean. how would one apply that to a punch. just pivoting? or dare i say it? sine wave? the first one i could manage
When not specifically dissallowed, I step-reverse-punch with a hip twist. Yes, the walking induces a sort of sine wave too.
For the knife or ridge, stepping from closed stance to middle stance or even back stance will throw hip twist and torso weight into the hand as well as provide additive speed (Thanks Earl -- I tell my students to do this but never had such an elegant explanation of why!)
Posted by: Andymcc
Re: speed breaks! - 05/27/08 07:39 AM
Quote:
For speed breaks with the hand try to employ the concept of "Additive Speed" If you stand in one spot and do a knifehand then the speed of your hand i how fast you move the hand. Say 50 MPH. Now if yu can coordinate a stepping action toward the board while moving the hand and if you step at 20 MPH and coordinate the motion properly your hand is moving at 70 MPH relative to the stationary board. Easy to show. Tough to explain in writing.
It does not translate so simply this way.
Adding a forward stepping or shifting motion definitely would add power, but not speed. It doesn't equate to 50+20=70. It equates more to 50 mph plus increased force and velocity equals increased power.
Posted by: ITFunity
Re: speed breaks! - 05/27/08 07:55 AM
Quote:
Speed is the key here and follow through for unsupported breaks, more follwo through than normal as you have to take into account the lack of support to the board.
Stuart
Yes speed is the key, but with snap as well. I think the follow through just moves the board forward giving it "give", hence no break, as it is un-supported. So I always did them with speed & snap. The follow through is withg supported boards, no?
Posted by: TKD_X
Re: speed breaks! - 05/27/08 03:39 PM
there has to be a degree of follow through with any break. i will apply you advice someday. it'll be a while before i try it again though.
Posted by: penquin
Re: speed breaks! - 05/30/08 03:54 PM
How about punching the board into a corner of a brick wall that might work. Sorry, I had put my two cents in.
Posted by: TKD_X
Re: speed breaks! - 05/30/08 04:59 PM
corner of a brick wall? not sure i understand...at all...
Posted by: Kimo2007
Re: speed breaks! - 05/30/08 05:08 PM
Ahh youth, I broke the small bone in my hand breaking concrete slabs...it was years before I could shake hands properly.
Posted by: penquin
Re: speed breaks! - 05/30/08 05:45 PM
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corner of a brick wall? not sure i understand...at all...
hit board, board flies into brick wall, board breaks any questions?
Posted by: TKD_X
Re: speed breaks! - 05/30/08 09:14 PM
so you use the wall to break it and not your hand? that defeats the whole purpose of the speed break. it would be easier to just break it flat out than to try to break it off a wall. that's just silly.
Posted by: penquin
Re: speed breaks! - 05/30/08 09:28 PM
It was meant to be silly
Posted by: TKD_X
Re: speed breaks! - 05/30/08 10:20 PM
it wasn't the good kind of silly.
Posted by: penquin
Re: speed breaks! - 06/01/08 08:22 AM
sorry
Posted by: Supremor
Re: speed breaks! - 06/01/08 09:30 AM
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it wasn't the good kind of silly.
Silly as in a joke 
I got it anyway.
Posted by: TKD_X
Re: speed breaks! - 06/01/08 11:25 AM
hehe, don't worry about it. so right now i'm contemplating doing a horizontal hammerfist speed break with someone else barely supporting the board. thoughts?
Posted by: Supremor
Re: speed breaks! - 06/01/08 02:07 PM
Sounds fine, although a knifehand break would be easier and probably more impressive. I've never liked hammer fist breaks for some reason.
Posted by: BulldogTKD
Re: speed breaks! - 06/01/08 05:59 PM
Hold the board in one hand and punch it with the other!
Posted by: TKD_X
Re: speed breaks! - 06/01/08 06:38 PM
that's too easy bulldog! haha. i wanna go above and beyond. as for knife hand i don't know. i feel like i could generate more power with a hammerfist. maybe i'll forgo the hand techniques all together and do a tornado/360 roundhouse kick.
Posted by: Andymcc
Re: speed breaks! - 06/01/08 07:37 PM
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hehe, don't worry about it. so right now i'm contemplating doing a horizontal hammerfist speed break with someone else barely supporting the board. thoughts?
Yes, my thoughts are you should do the unsupported spin hook kick I told you about on page 1 of this topic. 
Posted by: jeff_andle
Re: speed breaks! - 06/02/08 06:35 AM
it was a joke TKD_X...
Posted by: RazorFoot
Re: speed breaks! - 06/02/08 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Speed is the key here and follow through for unsupported breaks, more follwo through than normal as you have to take into account the lack of support to the board.
Stuart
Yes speed is the key, but with snap as well. I think the follow through just moves the board forward giving it "give", hence no break, as it is un-supported. So I always did them with speed & snap. The follow through is withg supported boards, no?
I have done this break before a couple of times. In most attempts, the board is held by another person standing off to the side and it is released from a position slightly above my head and out in front. It is a quick snapping movement as you strike the board. You have to strike and retract as you make contact, leaving the force with the board but not pushing it away. It took about four attempts to do the first break but after I had a feel for it, it came a little easier the next few times.
It shows good focus, control, and accuracy. If you have to get in and get out really fast on a strike, it helps to be able to have a punch with the speed of a fast jab but with good power at the point of contact. That is the only practical application I can see.
Scottie
Posted by: TKD_X
Re: speed breaks! - 06/02/08 05:14 PM
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it was a joke TKD_X...
sometimes it's hard to tell.
now if i did a hook kick then i would want someone holding it. i have never practiced a toss up. i'll have to ask my master.