to get a jump
Posted by: penquin
to get a jump - 04/27/08 03:13 PM
I am wondering if someone could tell me a website that has the ATA forms illustrated.
and/or Hwa rang do forms.
I am interested in getting into one of these schools and can't seem to find illustrations or videos of all the forms.
Posted by: jeff_andle
Re: to get a jump - 04/27/08 06:05 PM
penguin,
ATA copyrighted their forms. A stroke of business genius but a source of much acrimony. Look on e-bay and I bet some are available. I suspect the sequences of moves are available if the names meant anything to you w/o illustration.
Posted by: TKD_X
Re: to get a jump - 04/27/08 07:00 PM
have you considered any other TKD styles? just asking. and if you are a good visual lerner, you could watch on youtube. the only thing is, these are no substitutes for live instruction.
Posted by: penquin
Re: to get a jump - 04/27/08 07:53 PM
I was informed that the ATA schools are better suited to handle my disability better, but if I was misinformed could you recommend a good TKD or other martial art school that caters to people with disabilities.
Posted by: TKD_X
Re: to get a jump - 04/27/08 10:39 PM
AHH i had just written a LONG reply when my internet explorer CRASHED! just for you, i will rewrite it: May i ask what kind of disability and/or what kind of limitations you have as a result? i think that ANY taekwondo school can work with someone who has disabilities. it just depends on the instructor. now it is my understanding that hwarangdo has grappling/throwing in its curriculum. is that within your capabilities? my suggestion is to look for a school that isn't too large or commercialized. big, commercialized schools usually have multiple instructors and large classes. this can take away from time that would otherwise be spent assisting your special needs. look for a traditional school that doesn't have flashy and extraneous elements. whatever you do, don't let your disability hold you back. if an instructor has the slightest air of uncertainty when talking to you, i would rule out that dojang. also see in what setting the instructor talk to you. if the instructor takes you to his office so you can sit down and seriously discuss your options, that instructor would probably be a good choice. if it is a rushed conversation in the school's lobby, i would steer clear. you could watch how the class runs. would most of the stuff fit you? is it the kind of stuff you could picture yourself doing? i think that at the end of the day, you will know what is right for you. you will just be able to tell. i have trained in 4 different schools and i have gone through the looking process 4 times. be patient and you will find the right school. it doesn't even have to be tae kwon do. you could look into tang soo do (a close cousin of tae kwon do), karate, or even kung fu. it would help if i knew what kind of limitations you face.
TKD X
Posted by: jeff_andle
Re: to get a jump - 04/28/08 06:44 AM
TKD_X this has been the subject of a few threads already (specific to his situation). The simple fact is that with continuity of training in a single style, he could hold a fairly high rank given the time that he has put in.
Posted by: penquin
Re: to get a jump - 04/28/08 10:36 AM
He doesn't know me jeff, so shh.
seriously
TKD_X I have a massive hernia that prevents high kicks, spin kicks, and jumping kicks. I want to earn my black belt(finally) after 26 years of in dojang and out(as indicated by jeff). This is one of the reasons why I want to find out what the forms (sorry forgot Korean word for kata)
By the way, thank you about the identifying a good school. I need to be reminded. I almost went to check out a commercialized school, but decided not to because of you. (the schools initials are K A)
Posted by: TKD_X
Re: to get a jump - 04/29/08 03:49 PM
i thought you might say something to that effect (about the high kicks etc.). that is why i suggested a traditional school that doesn't base their system on flashy techniques. i admire your perseverance. i trained for 10 years before i achieved my black belt after setbacks and starting over from the beginning twice. it will be worth it.
i'm glad to help anytime!
P.S. there are a few Korean words for "form." the only ones i'm aware of are poomse, hyung, and tul.
Posted by: penquin
Re: to get a jump - 04/29/08 08:45 PM
this will be starting over 4 or 5 depending on how you count. I was informed I might be able to retain a partial rank. I just hope it is not 8 gup or yellow belt. I was at one time 3 kup in Kyokushin kai and a 5 gup in Tae kwon do.
Posted by: BrianS
Re: to get a jump - 04/29/08 09:06 PM
penguin,
I have never met someone so concerned with rank and so little with actual learning.
Posted by: penquin
Re: to get a jump - 04/30/08 12:37 PM
he was talking about starting over, so give me a break.
I am sorry if I equate rank with learning. After all, isn't a black belt a person who has mastered all the basic techniques? I have read that at least a dozen times in these forums. I believe I have learned the basics and have mastered them. I have learned other techniques from other styles. If you have nothing more to learn or if your instructor doesn't teach you more, you have mastered the basics if, of course, you are doing the technique correctly.
I have a had bad instructor who was enamored with other students than me. Those other students were doing the technique incorrectly, but he thought they were golden.(I am comparing them to him) They were promoted faster than I because of his "blindness". I hope this sheds some light on this subject.
I know not all instructors are like him (He is no longer allowed to teach by his association and the better business bureau) I could say almost all instructors are not like him, but the bad apples spoil it for the rest.
Posted by: TKD_X
Re: to get a jump - 04/30/08 06:05 PM
i don't quite know if i understand the relevance of the instructor story. i understand that you don't want to start over. it is reasonable after attaining a high rank that took you years to get. i would feel the same way. by the same token, you have to be flexible. the last time i switched schools, i was a 1st gup (brown belt with black stripe). When i switched, that particular color belt was the rank before recommended blackbelt which is the rank before blakcbelt in my current system. so instead of testing in about 3 months for blackbelt, i took a few months before testing for recommended blackbelt and then 6 months at RBB. there's always going to be a little give and take.the forms may be slightly different (as was in my case) or they might be a whole different set (as what may be your case if you choose an ATA school). i have to agree that BB does not equal learning. learning is personal. it doesn't stop. don't look at BB as the end, look at it as the beginning. BB indicates proficiency in basic techniques. but they are, after all, only basics. my advice would be to set goals for yourself slowly. don't put the blackbelt in the middle and block out everything else. you could miss out on a lot. always keep the black belt in the back of your mind, but don't let it rule your thoughts. it's a slow process. you are not only going for a blackbelt in TKD, you are going for a blackbelt in patience. just go with what feels right. take the high road. it doesn't matter what time you get to scotland, just that you get there.
TKD X
Posted by: penquin
Re: to get a jump - 04/30/08 11:43 PM
nicely put. The instructor story was for BrianS(we have a small history about things)
Anyway I was wondering if you TKD X or anyone else know if tang soo do is similar to Tae kwon do mixed with street fighting techniques? I observed a class today and described to the instructor my previous styles. He said it sounded as if I would fit in great there, but I want to find out if he was fishing for student?
Posted by: TKD_X
Re: to get a jump - 05/01/08 07:26 PM
to my knowledge, tang soo do is very similar to traditional tae kwon do. the schools in my area do teach some takedowns and ground fighting techniques as well as practical self defense. i don't know if that's what you consider "street fighting." to me street fighting has no skill and is just all out. whoever is lucky enough to land a punch wins. either way, it is less based on the flahiness that rules some tae kwon do schools today. did you feel like you would "fit in great?"
Posted by: penquin
Re: to get a jump - 05/02/08 06:49 AM
Quote:
teach some takedowns and ground fighting techniques as well as practical self defense. i don't know if that's what you consider "street fighting." to me street fighting has no skill and is just all out. whoever is lucky enough to land a punch wins. either way, it is less based on the flashiness that rules some tae kwon do schools today. did you feel like you would "fit in great?"
what I meant by street fighting was techniques that would be illegal in a tournament. for example, an opponent does a round house kick and you grab the leg hit the pressure point in the inner thigh then pummel him/her with a series of moves causing them not to wish to fight anymore.
It seems that it might fit, but after my first with an ATA school I don't know. I feel as if I can offer the ATA school an insight on "real" techniques that would work in real situations. Besides after 25 minutes of doing the class I knew their first form. They were a little shocked. Is this a good sign or bad? I see it as good (for me to achieve my short term goal, BB) and bad as in they are easily impressed (then again I am awesome 
)
I haven't read my pdf's on what the any of the ATA forms consist of, but I will take a look at them before my next class.(I was invited back to take a few more classes for free)
Posted by: jeff_andle
Re: to get a jump - 05/02/08 07:16 AM
Quote:
It seems that it might fit, but after my first with an ATA school I don't know. I feel as if I can offer the ATA school an insight on "real" techniques that would work in real situations. Besides after 25 minutes of doing the class I knew their first form. They were a little shocked. Is this a good sign or bad? I see it as good (for me to achieve my short term goal, BB) and bad as in they are easily impressed (then again I am awesome )
I haven't read my pdf's on what the any of the ATA forms consist of, but I will take a look at them before my next class.(I was invited back to take a few more classes for free)
Which school and what rank instructor? Discussing teaching an SD module after they know you better is appropriate if the instructor is week there. Do it privately of course.
If they did what I would have done knowing your training history, you'd get walked through forms until one of them posed you any technical issues. If they are going to have you memorize all 9 (some schools require retained memorization of all material, but it's not an Association rule) it still should be all about the "grey matter" stringing well-known techniques in the specified order... at least for the first 4-5 belts the kicks are all "low abdominal impact".
In any case they probably hear - as does this board - a lot of "self made masters" and getting someone that actually knows something might be a pleasant suprise.
songahm 2 and 3 add round kicks, doube hand blocks and jump front kicks plus some more simple strikes and blocks.
songahm 4 and 5 add twin hand techniques, spin reverse kicks and more simple strikes and blocks. For short term memorization you might learn a form a night just on your experience. For competition memorization I'd assume longer to retain it all.
In Wha I and II add crescent kicks, complicated turns, and circular blocks. In Wha I is ussually as far and any transferring newcomer gets in the "crash course" to determine equivalent rank. It's usually the footwork and balance and not the techniques themselves.
Posted by: penquin
Re: to get a jump - 05/02/08 04:32 PM
The school is Sherwood Black belt academy Rick Glen. the Instructor is Rick Glen 3rd or 4th degree (I read some of the liteture saying 4th) His assistant told me that I would have to know all the forms even past black.(no problem) I saw on youtube some of the forms. I hope he modifies some for me. Are the forms standardized? I found some pdf's about what is expected of me for each test, including a walk through for the forms.
Posted by: jeff_andle
Re: to get a jump - 05/03/08 07:38 AM
Quote:
The school is Sherwood Black belt academy Rick Glen. the Instructor is Rick Glen 3rd or 4th degree (I read some of the liteture saying 4th) His assistant told me that I would have to know all the forms even past black.(no problem) I saw on youtube some of the forms. I hope he modifies some for me. Are the forms standardized? I found some pdf's about what is expected of me for each test, including a walk through for the forms.
Your instructor is authorized to permit alterations suiting physical limitations at least to 1ste dan and within reason to his testing authority. The regional testing panel between his authority and up to 4th dan determines if any allowances are warranted. From 4th dan up testing is in front of the Master's Council. I know people that have tested for 5th & 6th dan 3-5 times and typically short of a wheelchair or polio, you don't get much allowance.
I'll be voluntarilly midterming there next month just to get a feel for it but there's no requirement to do so until a year from October for me... and likely two years from June at my present training rate.
Posted by: penquin
Re: to get a jump - 05/03/08 08:47 AM
We have a person in wheelchair at this school. I don't think I'll be able to test for 5th for quite some time, and since you said they may not give me allowances, I probably won't get that high. Unless, of course, I get my surgery before then(I hope so). His assistant instructor didn't seem to think I needed allowances. My pitiful jump front kick seemed okay to him; also my turn around back kick was wobbly, due to my weight being thrown of balance because of hernia, was okay to his assistant. Is his assistant correct in thinking my technique it okay because of my hernia? I try to get my technique perfect, and I know if I were the instructor I would say I need to work on it until I can do it better. It wouldn't effect my promotion.
Posted by: jeff_andle
Re: to get a jump - 05/03/08 05:56 PM
Quote:
We have a person in wheelchair at this school. I don't think I'll be able to test for 5th for quite some time, and since you said they may not give me allowances, I probably won't get that high. Unless, of course, I get my surgery before then(I hope so). His assistant instructor didn't seem to think I needed allowances. My pitiful jump front kick seemed okay to him; also my turn around back kick was wobbly, due to my weight being thrown of balance because of hernia, was okay to his assistant. Is his assistant correct in thinking my technique it okay because of my hernia? I try to get my technique perfect, and I know if I were the instructor I would say I need to work on it until I can do it better. It wouldn't effect my promotion.
If they put a white belt on you they may merely be saying it's good for a white belt. Only front snd side are in the curriculum in that form. Also it's a principle of positive reinforcement and praise-correct-praise to say it's good, here's how to make it better, etc.
Posted by: TKD_X
Re: to get a jump - 05/03/08 08:07 PM
how fast do you anticipate your surgery? it may be better to wait for that so you don't further mess yourself up.
Posted by: penquin
Re: to get a jump - 05/04/08 08:46 AM
I can't mess myself up any worse than I am now. I have 40 more pounds to lose, but now that I am completely covered by the VA, they may want more. I am struggling to lose the weight; another reason to want get back in martial arts to help with weight loss. Of course, I don't want the VA touching my belly without my favorite doctor present. I doubt they will allow that.
Jeff they are keeping me at blue and testing up to it. I am studying the PDF's that I found to get a jump on the forms. I now know the 2nd form, and mastered the 1st.
Posted by: TKD_X
Re: to get a jump - 05/04/08 08:26 PM
i think you'll have to work your diet to get rid of those forty pounds. i wouldn't recommend any vigorous physical activity. but that's just my opinion.
Posted by: penquin
Re: to get a jump - 05/04/08 09:52 PM
I have changed my diet, and all I lost since last year is 25 pounds. As for vigorous physical activity, If I do the classes right, with the right instructor, I can do martial arts. I just got to not try to kick high, like I used to. That really hurts. Even my constant meditation doesn't get rid of it right away.
ps Jeff I must have been tired and not remembered exactly what you wrote. Sorry my statement doesn't jive with what you wrote.
Posted by: jeff_andle
Re: to get a jump - 05/05/08 06:01 AM
No, it's common to do what you said if there's a clear comparable rank.
Posted by: penquin
Re: to get a jump - 05/05/08 02:30 PM
Is it common to have to pay for the lower tests? I hope not, or at least I hope not as much. I also hope that me studying the material before hand for the lower belts is okay. In the school "rules" it says you can't perform forms higher than the rank you are. This is confusing if you are doing what I am attempting to do.
Posted by: jeff_andle
Re: to get a jump - 05/05/08 11:49 PM
I'd have to refrain from answering that for your instructor but if you are wearing a blue belt you would expect testing to brown to be your first promotion and all the rest is just prerequisites to testing... best to ask him though.
In my opinion if you stop studying ahead at in wha ee-jang you are not performing forms higher than your rasnk, but again, that is between you and he.
Posted by: penquin
Re: to get a jump - 05/06/08 04:21 AM
That is my opinion as well.
Posted by: jeff_andle
Re: to get a jump - 05/07/08 07:49 AM
of course the caveat is not to practice too much anything that an instructor in this style hasn't gone over with you or else you will refresh muscle memory of techniques slightly different than what they want you to perform...
... not a big problem but it is the real reason for the rule -- prevent self-taught bad technique from becoming habit.
Posted by: penquin
Re: to get a jump - 05/07/08 12:07 PM
I think the purple belt I was training with last night either taught himself or just wasn't concentrating on the form last night.
If you were to try and instruct a pregnant woman on how to maintain balance on the two round kicks in the purple belt form, how would you? I am trying to maintain balance, but I keep on being unable to recoil the kick at the end. I noticed that if I keep my base foot perpendicular to the "opponent" I keep it better then pointing my heel to the "opponent"