ATA #2

Posted by: MLA

ATA #2 - 03/10/06 10:59 AM

Hello...

I'm an adult white belt in my local ATA academy, and I continue to have questions galore. For those who've shared their thoughts on ATA before, note that I'm resorting to forum posts for my answers. I suppose I should/could ask the following questions of my instructor, but there never seems to be time before, during, or after class. I feel I've been a good student so far...very attentive and motivated in and out class. I stretch before, after, and between classes, work out and practice between classes, and read and research to (try to) find answers to my questions. But I still have some lingering questions about what the h*ck I'm doing:

Yesterday, after my fifth class, I received a fourth stripe (black electrical tape) on my white belt. I have no idea what any of the stripes symbolize. Online, I've found ATA academy's that are more forthcoming with information about requirements than mine is (mine suggested I purchase the book or DVD for $25). I see that White Belt Testing Requirements are:

A. Basics & kicks: First stripe

1. High block, low block, inner forearm block (I know these)
2. Front punch, reverse punch, knife hand strike (I know these)
3. #1, #2, #3, #4 front kicks; #1, #2, #3, #4 side kicks (AFAIK, I know one front kick, and one side kick...what's with all the #'s? There are four front kicks and four side kicks to learn? If earning my first stripe is contingent on this, then I shouldn't have my first stripe, in my opinion. What do y'all think?)

4. Memorize the Songahm Spirit of Taekwondo (I still can't recite this from memory, though I'm getting better with practice. Again, if the first stripe is contingent on memorizing this, then I don't think I've earned it yet.)

B. Form: Second stripe

1. Songahm 1 (Il Jang), 18 moves (I've practiced this on my own, from instruction sheets I've downloaded off the web, and have never been asked to try it in class; should I have my second stripe?)

2. Great attitude (well, I've got that)

C. One-step sparring: Third stripe

1. One-step sparring #1, #2, #3 (I know #1 and #2; we covered #3 in class one time so far)

2. Self-defense techniques (I know these)

In the info I have, there's no mention of a fourth stripe, but I know I need the fourth to "graduate". Graduate to what? I have a white belt, though I don't think I've fulfilled the requirements.

Bottom line:

1) What are the 1-4 front and side kicks (or where can I find them described)?

2) How/why are stripes awarded?

3) What's a graduation?

Thank you in advance for your any info you can provide...

MLA
Posted by: blascun2k

Re: ATA #2 - 03/10/06 01:00 PM

Im not sure how much help I can be, but I'll try. First...Strips (electrical tape) is just something schools do, some times you have to test to get these strips of tape, and those test cost money, some times they don't test for them. Most tournaments that I've been too will not allow tape on a belt.

As far as earning your little strips of tape, if you havent met the requirments, and they still gave them to you, what do you think this means? Sounds like they just want your $$$$$$$, and will give you promotions to keep you happy.

As for Front kicks 1 - 4, I know of one front kick, that is a front kick, lift your knee bent to your chest, and snap outward striking with the ball of your heel. I don't know of another type, some one will correct me if Im wrong.

They want you to buy a book for $25 in order to explain what techinques do????? One word for this....RUN!!!!!!!

They should teach you the techinque, and then explain to you why/how/when it works.


If i remember correctly from your previous post, you have just started with this ata school...I practise under the WTF organization, We have no strips of tape on our belts, goes from white to yellow, and it takes most people atleast 2 months to pass the test, our requirments to pass to the next belt are:

Honor Code 1-10 (this is just our school motto sort of speak)
3 step sparring 1-4
8 Count #1
Practise Form
Proper front kick
proper turn kick

Thats just to get to the yellow belt.

From yellow to orange, you have to repeat all the following steps, in addition to teagu form #1, 3step 5-8, axe kick, hook kick, crescent kick (sort of like a round house) and spar one person for 1 minute, full contact with pads.

I don't know, if I were you I would ask your instructors to be more clear on what your doing, if You don't understand what your doing, you can't learn. IMHO
Posted by: VDJ

Re: ATA #2 - 03/10/06 01:05 PM

Quote:

Hello...

I'm an adult white belt in my local ATA academy, and I continue to have questions galore. For those who've shared their thoughts on ATA before, note that I'm resorting to forum posts for my answers. I suppose I should/could ask the following questions of my instructor, but there never seems to be time before, during, or after class. I feel I've been a good student so far...very attentive and motivated in and out class. I stretch before, after, and between classes, work out and practice between classes, and read and research to (try to) find answers to my questions. But I still have some lingering questions about what the h*ck I'm doing:

Yesterday, after my fifth class, I received a fourth stripe (black electrical tape) on my white belt. I have no idea what any of the stripes symbolize. Online, I've found ATA academy's that are more forthcoming with information about requirements than mine is (mine suggested I purchase the book or DVD for $25). I see that White Belt Testing Requirements are:

A. Basics & kicks: First stripe

1. High block, low block, inner forearm block (I know these)
2. Front punch, reverse punch, knife hand strike (I know these)
3. #1, #2, #3, #4 front kicks; #1, #2, #3, #4 side kicks (AFAIK, I know one front kick, and one side kick...what's with all the #'s? There are four front kicks and four side kicks to learn? If earning my first stripe is contingent on this, then I shouldn't have my first stripe, in my opinion. What do y'all think?)

4. Memorize the Songahm Spirit of Taekwondo (I still can't recite this from memory, though I'm getting better with practice. Again, if the first stripe is contingent on memorizing this, then I don't think I've earned it yet.)

B. Form: Second stripe

1. Songahm 1 (Il Jang), 18 moves (I've practiced this on my own, from instruction sheets I've downloaded off the web, and have never been asked to try it in class; should I have my second stripe?)

2. Great attitude (well, I've got that)

C. One-step sparring: Third stripe

1. One-step sparring #1, #2, #3 (I know #1 and #2; we covered #3 in class one time so far)

2. Self-defense techniques (I know these)

In the info I have, there's no mention of a fourth stripe, but I know I need the fourth to "graduate". Graduate to what? I have a white belt, though I don't think I've fulfilled the requirements.

Bottom line:

1) What are the 1-4 front and side kicks (or where can I find them described)?

2) How/why are stripes awarded?

3) What's a graduation?

Thank you in advance for your any info you can provide...

MLA




Lets see if I have this right,

In your first thread of the same name, you mentioned that your classes are 30 minutes long, so if my calculations are right, you have a total of 2 1/2 hrs of class training time after 5 classes. With a short warm up time of say 8 minutes, this leaves you 22 minutes to learn strikes (kicking & punching, blocks and stances) per class. A whopping 110 minutes (1hr 50 minutes) to be able to get your "tag" (thats your stripe)for being abble to perform basics at your belt level. MLA, you asked before and it has been answered, sounds very much like a McDojo.

Now to answer your questions, the tags/stripes you are receiving is a grading method to show your progression in the basics that you are learning. When you have learned the required basics and received all your tags, you are then tested and promoted/graduated to the next belt, in the case of white belt, it is typically the yellow/gold belt that you are promoted to. Most tags are issued after 10 or more class hrs, which would be about every 3-5 weeks, and is totally up to the instructor. Our school is between 12 & 15 class hrs depending on the students ability to comprehend and perform the technique. We also only issue 3 tags per belt level, some issue less and some issue more (we have a small chain that does 8 per belt and has the gaul to CHARGE for them ! Feel fortunate that at least that isn't happening to you).

As far as an explantion of the kicks, again it very's from org to org and instructor to instructor. With us ours would be rear leg front, lead leg front, skip front and jump front snap kicks as well as rear leg side,lead leg, step behind side and skip side kicks (round kicks follow the same format as the side kick except for the step behind). Hand techniques are middle punch, high punch, low, middle, high blocks (simplifying terminology here), arc hand strike, knife hand strike, guarding block and the front, sitting and back stances. After we have been thru this then the pattern would be taught (BTW, alot instructors don't like it when you look to teach your self the patterns and try to get yourself ahead w/o them teaching you. The video may show one way of doing something and the teacher another, then they will tell you you are doing it wrong and it can lead to some problems. My advice is to let the instructor do their job). I am guessing that you are getting rushed thru your basics so they can get you to test real soon.

I would check out how legally binding your "contract" is and see if you can find another school. I don't mean to be insulting, but I don't think you are getting quality instruction from your description. Best of luck to you.

VDJ
Posted by: Dereck

Re: ATA #2 - 03/10/06 01:55 PM

Sorry MLA but I honestly think you need to take the time with your Instructor(s) and ask all of these questions. Everything should be explained as it happens especially being new. Nothing should be left for you to ponder. And everything required at each level should be fully explained and trained in class and should not be left up to you to find out ... that is what you are paying them for.

Some serious questions MLA which you should get from the source.
Posted by: MLA

Re: ATA #2 - 03/10/06 02:46 PM

Is there not at least one ATA Master/owner/proprietor/instructor/black belt reading this forum? I know there are thousands of forums besides this one out there, but supposedly there are more than a thousand ATA schools and clubs...

Their silence speaks volumes.

Thank you, everyone else, for the input. I will continue to practice in the spirit of Taekwondo. My wife and I continue to enjoy the experience.

One more question, if anyone's still reading this far down...

Say I fulfill my six-month agreement with ATA, and walk away with a green belt (?). If I then join my university's TKD club (Palgwe forms), what can I expect? Will I start from scratch?

Thanks again for your generous input...

MLA
Posted by: Dereck

Re: ATA #2 - 03/10/06 03:10 PM

Each school is different MLA but certainly talk with the new Instructor(s) should you decide to train elsewhere. I do however question any place that after 6 months awards anybody a green belt ... or perhaps you were just using this as an example.

Our school has taken in others from independent clubs as well as ITF clubs. They start at white belt but are understanding that they can advance faster as they know many of the techniques. One gentleman that now is a friend and neighbor, came from an independent club and did everything we did but with the exception of our one-step self defense patterns. He was able to train from white belt to blue belt in one night ... and could have gone further if he had it in him but that is quite a lot of stuff to accomplish. Then he tested from blue to red belt/black stripe. Then after 6 months he went for his black belt. All of this was done in relatively quick fashion.

Talk to them and maybe that is all you will have to do is fill in the blanks. If it is a complete different system then you may have to start from the beginning and work your way through like everybody else. Don't see that as a negative but a positive as you will be a better practitioner at every level as you know a lot of things already.

Good luck and enjoy your training with your family.
Posted by: butterfly

Re: ATA #2 - 03/10/06 03:51 PM

MLA,

Also, there have been other posts on the ATA. I am not sure if you had a chance to look at them and search the archives.

Just consider what Dereck said about rank. Also, consider that some other TKD stylists have 5-10 year requirements of continuous study to reach 1st degree BB.

Each style has it's own time line. But generally, in most styles that I am familiar with (Karate/TKD), 3-8 years for BB is more common, with 4-5 years being probably the average.

Green in many styles would equate to about 2-3 years study. I hope this gives a bit of comparison.

Good luck.

-B
Posted by: MLA

Re: ATA #2 - 03/10/06 04:28 PM

Yes, I've seen and started other ATA posts here. They've been very informative.

I certainly misspoke about getting a green belt in six months. I was probably thinking of the ATA's camoflage belt (between yellow and green).

MLA
Posted by: Dereck

Re: ATA #2 - 03/10/06 05:42 PM

Quote:

I certainly misspoke about getting a green belt in six months. I was probably thinking of the ATA's camoflage belt (between yellow and green).




The belt we have between the yellow and the green belt is a yellow belt with a green stripe through the middle. I guess you are not joking about it being camouflaged? I can understand you not remembering it as you can't see it.
Posted by: BrianS

Re: ATA #2 - 03/10/06 06:03 PM

MLA,

A campflaged belt? Holy cow! Are you joking? From what I've read so far i'd run from your school ASAP if you ever want to learn true TKD or self defense period.
Posted by: TeK9

Re: ATA #2 - 03/10/06 07:28 PM

MLA

Hello, I did not want to reply to this post for the many reasons Dereck have given. It seems harsh how some people are judging your school. But you have given many reasons for them to. I hope that you are able to get the most out of your contract. Learn what you can. My advice is to try your local college he only draw back is that sometimes the classes are to full. But the up side there is much motivation for learning.

From everything you have read about TKD and organizations such as the ATA, WTF, and ITF. And your own personal concerns and questions I think you have enough information to make a good decision about the kind of school you are currently attending. I personally would suggest you find a new school after your contract is up. I myself am taking Hapkido at my college. So far it has been a great experience. A diverse group of students, all eagered to learn, men, women, different shapes and sizes. The instructors are usually eagereed to teach because they arn't worried about bill's they basically love to teach. Good Luck,

-Tek
Posted by: VDJ

Re: ATA #2 - 03/10/06 11:25 PM

Quote:

MLA,

A campflaged belt? Holy cow! Are you joking? From what I've read so far i'd run from your school ASAP if you ever want to learn true TKD or self defense period.





Brian,

Arkansas is the home of the ATA, you weren't aware of the 'Camo" belt ? (ugliest thing I ever saw).

VDJ
Posted by: BrianS

Re: ATA #2 - 03/10/06 11:48 PM

Posted by: blascun2k

Re: ATA #2 - 03/11/06 12:41 PM

Doubtfull you will start at another school with your present ATA Rank, as they said, if you are able to perform the basic moves, you may be able to get promoted to the next belt level (yellow in some clubs, orange in others) faster, but don't count on it. My suggestion would be to go into the new school and tell them what you've done with the ATA, don't expect any thing higher than white belt, due to the fact that the ATA has its own forms/blocks/sparring than ITF or WTF, so you'll prolly have to re-learn everything from the beginning.
Posted by: Dudley32

Re: ATA #2 - 03/11/06 04:06 PM

Quote:

Doubtfull you will start at another school with your present ATA Rank, as they said, if you are able to perform the basic moves, you may be able to get promoted to the next belt level (yellow in some clubs, orange in others) faster, but don't count on it. My suggestion would be to go into the new school and tell them what you've done with the ATA, don't expect any thing higher than white belt, due to the fact that the ATA has its own forms/blocks/sparring than ITF or WTF, so you'll prolly have to re-learn everything from the beginning.




What exactly is the ATA sparring like.

I walked into an ATA school once and they did indeed have a camo belt. I was a little confused

Matt
Posted by: Derik

Re: ATA #2 - 03/12/06 09:15 PM

Quote:

Hello...

I'm an adult white belt in my local ATA academy, and I continue to have questions galore. For those who've shared their thoughts on ATA before, note that I'm resorting to forum posts for my answers. I suppose I should/could ask the following questions of my instructor, but there never seems to be time before, during, or after class. I feel I've been a good student so far...very attentive and motivated in and out class. I stretch before, after, and between classes, work out and practice between classes, and read and research to (try to) find answers to my questions. But I still have some lingering questions about what the h*ck I'm doing:

Yesterday, after my fifth class, I received a fourth stripe (black electrical tape) on my white belt. I have no idea what any of the stripes symbolize. Online, I've found ATA academy's that are more forthcoming with information about requirements than mine is (mine suggested I purchase the book or DVD for $25). I see that White Belt Testing Requirements are:

A. Basics & kicks: First stripe

1. High block, low block, inner forearm block (I know these)
2. Front punch, reverse punch, knife hand strike (I know these)
3. #1, #2, #3, #4 front kicks; #1, #2, #3, #4 side kicks (AFAIK, I know one front kick, and one side kick...what's with all the #'s? There are four front kicks and four side kicks to learn? If earning my first stripe is contingent on this, then I shouldn't have my first stripe, in my opinion. What do y'all think?)

4. Memorize the Songahm Spirit of Taekwondo (I still can't recite this from memory, though I'm getting better with practice. Again, if the first stripe is contingent on memorizing this, then I don't think I've earned it yet.)

B. Form: Second stripe

1. Songahm 1 (Il Jang), 18 moves (I've practiced this on my own, from instruction sheets I've downloaded off the web, and have never been asked to try it in class; should I have my second stripe?)

2. Great attitude (well, I've got that)

C. One-step sparring: Third stripe

1. One-step sparring #1, #2, #3 (I know #1 and #2; we covered #3 in class one time so far)

2. Self-defense techniques (I know these)

In the info I have, there's no mention of a fourth stripe, but I know I need the fourth to "graduate". Graduate to what? I have a white belt, though I don't think I've fulfilled the requirements.

Bottom line:

1) What are the 1-4 front and side kicks (or where can I find them described)?

2) How/why are stripes awarded?

3) What's a graduation?

Thank you in advance for your any info you can provide...

MLA




my school does it pretty similar only we use 3 stripes.
About the 4 front kicks #1 is right leg in front left leg in back front kick with right leg, #2 right leg in back left leg in front front kick with right leg, #3 left leg in front right left in back front kick with left leg, #4 left in back right in front kick with left leg. very simple about the Songahm Spirit of Taekwondo you should have this in your ciriculum book so just take it to work/school with you one day and recite it in your head untill you have it memorized.
As far as your form goes i dont know how your school does it but in my ata school the main thing we work on is form/conditioning so its kind of wierd that youve never done your form infront of the class. You should go up to your instructor after class and ask if we could have a few days dedicated to learning/polishing your form. Your white belt form is pretty simple so it shoulder be a problem. step up high block, chamber, reverse punch, #2 front kick, low block, chamber step up punch, inner forearm block, stepup front kick knife hand punch then repeat it using the other leg,arm

about your 1 step go up to him after class and ask if he could spend more time on these from now on so you can be ready for testing. sounds to me like you dont have a very good instructor if youve never even been shown your form.

Your fourth stripe means your ready for testing which happens every two months. If you dont have a fourth stripe you wont be able to test for your next belt when the time comes.

hope it helps if you need any more help/info then just ask

about the
"What exactly is the ATA sparring like." its the same as wtf or itf sparring
Posted by: blascun2k

Re: ATA #2 - 03/12/06 09:57 PM

Quote:

"What exactly is the ATA sparring like." its the same as wtf or itf sparring




Hmm, interesting comment, considering WFT and ITF Sparring are different from each other. ITF light contact, punches to head (i think, not sure), light padding/gear.

WTF Full contact, no punches to the head or face, full padding/gear..etc etc.

SO what is ATA....? Full Contact, light contact, no punches to the head, punch to the head, light gear, full gear.? Go into some detail on ATA Rules of sparring, im curious.
Posted by: Derik

Re: ATA #2 - 03/12/06 11:34 PM

Quote:

Quote:

"What exactly is the ATA sparring like." its the same as wtf or itf sparring




Hmm, interesting comment, considering WFT and ITF Sparring are different from each other. ITF light contact, punches to head (i think, not sure), light padding/gear.

WTF Full contact, no punches to the head or face, full padding/gear..etc etc.

SO what is ATA....? Full Contact, light contact, no punches to the head, punch to the head, light gear, full gear.? Go into some detail on ATA Rules of sparring, im curious.





what do you mean light or full contact? im not sure whaty our asking so ill tell you basicly how it goes. You wear a padded foam helmet without a face cover, padded foam gloves, padded foam shoes, and a chest protector. its first to 5 points or whoever has more after two minutes. No punching to the head or below the belt if you do you get a warning and if it continues you get disqualifed. kick to the chest is one point kick to the head is two a jumping kick to the head is three points. A punch to the chest is one. You dont have to like knock the wind out of somone when you hit them but it has to be solid. If i left anything else out tell me
Posted by: Dereck

Re: ATA #2 - 03/13/06 09:30 AM

From the ITF and WTF matches I've seen there are no face protectors only the foam helments. ITF rules are based more on points such as you have explained where first to five points ... but that is not all ITF as VDJ has pointed out. ITF allows punches to the head but they are controlled punches. WTF is based on time per match and then points are calculated afterwards. No points are awarded for punches to the chest but I have seen points being awarded if they were more devastating. What it boils down to is some rules are the same and some rules are different and there is no clear cut right or wrong or yes or no.
Posted by: MLA

Re: ATA #2 - 03/13/06 09:57 AM

Quote:



About the 4 front kicks #1 is right leg in front left leg in back front kick with right leg, #2 right leg in back left leg in front front kick with right leg, #3 left leg in front right left in back front kick with left leg, #4 left in back right in front kick with left leg.






Thank you for the explanation. So, it's one front kick from two positions on each side...not really four different kicks. Or, am I missing something (again)?

Quote:


very simple about the Songahm Spirit of Taekwondo you should have this in your ciriculum book so just take it to work/school with you one day and recite it in your head untill you have it memorized.






Aye, my wife and I are working on recitation.

Quote:


As far as your form goes i dont know how your school does it but in my ata school the main thing we work on is form/conditioning so its kind of wierd that youve never done your form infront of the class.






Yes, we work on segments of the form, but I've never been asked to or shown how to put all 18 moves together. Aided by online info, I've practiced the form on my own at home.

Quote:


You should go up to your instructor after class and ask...





Aye. The best place for me to find answers is my dojang.

Thank you...

MLA
Posted by: bluemesa159

Re: ATA #2 - 08/02/06 03:51 PM

Sorry to revive an old thread, but I thought I'd make some clarifications to what has been posted...

Quote:

Quote:


About the 4 front kicks #1 is right leg in front left leg in back front kick with right leg, #2 right leg in back left leg in front front kick with right leg, #3 left leg in front right left in back front kick with left leg, #4 left in back right in front kick with left leg.




Thank you for the explanation. So, it's one front kick from two positions on each side...not really four different kicks. Or, am I missing something (again)?




Close. The #1, #2, #3, #4 is not foot-directional dependant, rather, it's foot-positional dependant.

In ATA, the front kick is performed from the front stance.
#1 is the front foot w/ the rear foot planted. Rock the body back onto the back leg, lift the front leg up, knee high into chamber, snap the foot forward.
#2 is the rear foot, don't move the front foot.
#3 is the front foot... slide the rear foot up even with the front foot, then kick with the front foot. Used to kick and move in on your attacker.
#4 is the rear foot... slide the front back to the rear and then kick with the rear. Used to kick & evade the attacker.

Not sure if the stripe on the belt issue was ever fully explained, so I'll give you the answer straight out of the Instructor book, page 210.
Color Belt Knowledge Stripes:
"The first stripe is earned for memorizing all stances, blocks, strikes, and kicks for that belt level. The second is for memorizing the form for that belt level. The third is for memoizing all sparring segments or one-steps."
The knowledge stripe(s) are placed on the wearers left side of the belt.

Color Belt Rank Stripe:
"This black stripe is worn on the right side of the belt and does indicate rank. It shows that the student is a decided rank for that belt level rather than a recommended."
Posted by: MLA

Re: ATA #2 - 08/03/06 09:13 AM

Well, I quit going to ATA a while back.

Got tired of classes in which I was the only one over 13 (and *most* classmates were *much* younger than 13), and reciting stuff during one-steps like, "Manners. I'm proud to use them. Manners." (Oops, forgot: That's probably copyrighted.)

Instead, I registered for the TKD course at the university, but now the section has been cancelled, and the other sections don't fit my schedule. Too bad, because that would have been less than $100 for two 90-minute classes per week, September-December. (I work at the university, and get fee remission as a perk.)

Looks like no more TKD for me...for a while.

=MLA
Posted by: Fletch1

Re: ATA #2 - 08/09/06 12:31 AM

Sounds like a reasonable decision.

I never post here but caught this thread as I remember my experience with the ATA. Nice people. Not much martial arts...but they were nice. Very business oriented and they have a very organized program that grooms and drives their Black Belts to carry on the organization and generate money and open new schools...infinitely much more so than ITF or WTF schools.

I remember my Camo belt as well and the belt tests every few weeks leading up to it and the understanding that I would have my Black Belt in less than two years if I kept coming and didn't miss a test.

I am thankful for the experience but would not go back or advise anyone looking for martial arts to follow the same path.
Posted by: Derik

Re: ATA #2 - 08/09/06 04:33 AM

Front kick #1= Right leg in back kick with right, #2=right leg in front kick with right, #3=left in back kick with left,#4=left in front kick with left


oops just read your last post, I am probally quitting mine once I turn 16 but until then its better then nothing