TKD and Creatine

Posted by: Anonymous

TKD and Creatine - 01/31/05 05:49 AM

Hello mates,

I just wondered if some of you use f.e. creatine, I know that some people use it to be more effective with strength explosions etc.

I would like to have some oppinions

thx [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: TKD and Creatine - 02/01/05 12:17 PM

I'm thinking about using it, because it's body own (you produce it yourself too)

Does anyone has expierence with it, just let me know [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]
Posted by: MikeMartial

Re: TKD and Creatine - 02/01/05 03:13 PM

No Spoon,

When I started TKD, I was still using creatine daily. If you check my thread called "My Progress With Kurz" under stretching, you'll find I make a comment about how creatine *may* have contributed to my hamstring pulls.

There's a fair bit of anecdotal evidence out there about creatine and muscle pulls; nothing studied, as far as I know, though.

While I was lifting weights, creatine was fabulous. Incredible recovery, and this made workouts all that much more intesive. And, for a hardgainer like me, the easy 10-12 lbs packed on by muscle cell hydration was nice.

But.....This was pure anerobic resistance training. Diving into something like TKD, with extremely fast dynamic moves, I'm not sure if creatine would help.

Now that I'm not a novice anymore, and my body, muscles, and tendons have become used to the stress and kicking, I have pondered the idea of re-visting creatine. I surely DO NOT want another hamstring pull, so I'm very hesitant.

But seeing as how TKD is aerobic AND anerobic, I wonder if creatine would help with recovery.

Anyways, if you do decide, my best advice would be HYDRATE like you are a dying man in the desert. I'm talking at LEAST 2 litres per day, if not more.

And keep us posted [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: TKD and Creatine - 02/03/05 02:16 AM

I will, it's the second day that I use it now. I'm about 73 kilo's and for a tournament I'm in the 70 - 75 range, so I could use 2 extra kilo's, that's the reason I started using it, maybe a little over reacted, but it won't harm me, even your brain uses creatine, and will help you focus.

Cheers [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

[This message has been edited by nospoon_TKD (edited 02-03-2005).]
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: TKD and Creatine - 02/03/05 11:21 AM

I also read on the internet that you get dehydrated very fast, I will dring about 3 to 4 liters fluids a day (read: water. milk etc)

thx for the advice [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: TKD and Creatine - 02/03/05 11:55 AM

Creatine is naturally used by the body already. It comes from things such as red meats. If you start taking this and your body has excess you will only crap it out and it will be money wasted.

You may want to do further research on the internet or talk to a sports doctor. I've never seen it used other then for weight lifters as it helps in the recover. For just a martial art boost I can't see it being too helpful as you are not experiencing muscle tears like that of weight lifters.

Who knows ... just my opinion.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: TKD and Creatine - 02/03/05 01:30 PM

Hello,

1) I understand that it won't help me with TKD, but as you prob. know is that weight counts heavy [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG] in MA sports. I'm around 160 lbs when I have to fight people on tournaments who are 165 lbs, I believe that I'm in a disadvantage. I'm just a starter at TKD and TKD tournaments so I believe that I can use every lbs since I'm not as expierenced as the most fighters.

2) Creatine helps you recover between extreme energy flows.

I'm from holland so my my english is not as good as the most people here. Here is a scientific realease about creatine, pleae read.

2. What does it do and what scientific studies give evidence to support this?


Creatine is bodybuilding's ultimate supplement, and for good reason. For one thing, creatine can significantly increase lean muscle mass in just two weeks. It is also responsible for improving performance in high-intensity exercise, increasing energy levels, and speeding up recovery rates. It’s no wonder athletes who use it have such of an edge over those who do not. Soon nearly every athlete who competes will use it (if they don't already). Creatine's ability to enhance energy reserves in muscles comes from its muscle protein synthesizing action, while minimizing protein breakdown. This occurs because creatine has the awesome effect of super-hydrating muscle cells with water. It enhances muscles' growth too-making muscle fibers bigger and stronger.

Quite a few studies have been done on creatine to figure out why and how it works so well. There have been over twenty double blind (meaning neither the researchers nor the subjects knew who was getting what), placebo-controlled studies conducted on creatine in the past five years. They proved that creatine increased energy levels, resulting in increased strength, endurance levels, and recovery rates. Another unexpected benefit attributed to creatine was discovered as well: creatine accelerates fat loss, while building lean body mass!

Thx a ton for your opinions
Posted by: MikeMartial

Re: TKD and Creatine - 02/16/05 06:41 PM

Any updtaes on this, Nospoon_TKD?

Dereck: Tsk tsk tsk, you are wrong, my friend. Creatine in fact is NOT wasted, when supplemented in excess. Too many studies have proven it works, and is safe. That being said, I myself have had positive and negative effects....and am still curiousn as to how it would affect a TKD martial artist.

There's been some small studies done on aerobic function, and with positive results, but 99% have been related to strength gain, weight gain, and anerobic recovery.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: TKD and Creatine - 02/17/05 03:42 AM

Hello again!

Sorry, took me a while, but here's an update. As far I can say, is that I grow about 1.5 kilo's.
I can also say that my stretching is better. I can stretch a little more (don't know if this is caused by the creatine though)

Because I only do push-ups and abdominal exercises I can say that my chest and triceps are growing a little and it's more contoured( read: dry muscule) (excuse me for my english)

I can't really tell to be honest if this will effect my MA skills, but I'm happy I gained 1.5 kilo's in only 1.5 weeks

I weight about 162.8 lbs so I more kilo and I'm at my weight I'd like to have [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]


more to come..
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: TKD and Creatine - 02/17/05 10:55 PM

hey all,, i use creatine and it s great!! one problem with it but ,, if you use it regularly your body stops producing it naturally so if u stop, your muscles go down harder beacause they are used to being "fed it" instead of producing it.

i take three days on then three days off!

cheers,

JD
"Unless your mind is still, you cannot see anything"
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: TKD and Creatine - 02/17/05 11:43 PM

Is this creatine just a shortcut instead of hardwork. JD-TKD say's there are some adverse affects short term, long term who knows if it will not do some more serious harm.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: TKD and Creatine - 02/17/05 11:59 PM

I've read so much about it and on long term (more then 3 months?) will stop your own production, that's why you have to keep your body "active" by having a stop once in a while.
There is not such a thing like brain damage [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] or misfit limps [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Cheers
Posted by: MikeMartial

Re: TKD and Creatine - 02/18/05 07:01 PM

Ok, obviously, there's a LOT of mis-information being spouted out about creatine.

As far as a "short cut" : It may be an opinion of one who takes the Holier-than-thou road, but bottom line, it works. Why spend twice the energy to get half the results?

As far as decresing your own creatine levels: Purely anecdotal. This comes from people going "off" creatine, and losing weight, feeling weaker, etc etc. Find me a study, and I'll change my tune, but it doesn't lower your own levels.

Here's a FAQ Myth/Truth article from a very good site, www.bodybuilding.com :

By: AnimalPak




Myth: The More Creatine You Take, The Better.


Truth: You've seen those sick bodybuilders chugging down 10-20 grams of creatine. Is it worth it? According to scientists at St. Francis Xavier University in Nova Scotia, at 0.1 grams per kilogram of bodyweight, male athletes excreted 46% of the ingested creatine within 24 hours. For a 220 pound lifter, this means that if he consumes 10g of creatine, 46%, or 4.6g of creatine, is wasted. In another study performed at the Human Performance Laboratory at Ball State University, scientists confirmed that lower doses of creatine monohydrate (5g/day) are effective, and that results can even be achieved without a loading phase.




Myth: Creatine Loading Is Mandatory.


Truth: Once again, research is proving that less creatine is needed to deliver results. The research cited above also suggests that creatine loading may be nothing more than a waste. Should you load? In most cases, probably not. If you're an elite athlete, a professional bodybuilder or competitive powerlifter, you may want to consider loading, just in case. For the rest of us, 5g is all it takes.




Myth: Creatine Harms The Kidneys And Liver.


Truth: Unless you have a pre-existing medical condition, creatine use should not damage your kidneys or liver. Most of the hype has been the result of anecdotal reports. In one study which tracked healthy athletes over a five-year period, football players who used creatine at levels up to 15.75g of creatine per day showed no effect on markers of renal or kidney stress. In another study conducted by Dr. Kerry Kuehl at the Oregon Health Sciences University in Portland and presented at the 2000 annual meeting of the American College of Sports Medicine, the kidney function of 36 healthy male and female athletes who consumed 10g of creatine per day was examined. After twelve weeks, Dr. Kuehl found that creatine did not adversely affect kidney function.




Myth: Creatine Causes Excessive Water Retention.


Truth: More bullshit. A recent double-blind, placebo-controlled study found that, after three months of creatine use, test subjects showed no significant increase in body water. In fact, the creatine group showed greater gains in total body mass and fat-free mass. Best of all, this recent study employed the latest in body composition measurements-deuterated water isotopic analysis which utilizes a non-radioactive "tracer". Now it is possible that some inferior-grade creatine may actually promote water gain that results in a soft, puffy look. However, this can be due to several reasons. One, it may not be due to the creatine, but excess sodium. When cheaply manufactured, excess sodium remains in the finished product.




Myth: Creatine Causes Cramping.


Truth: The idea that creatine use causes muscle cramping is anecdotal with no clinical evidence to support this claim. On the contrary, clinical studies show that creatine use is not associated with cramping. In one study, researchers examine 16 men who either supplemented with creatine or a placebo. Under specific dehydration conditions, the occurrence of cramping and tightness were reported in both groups, but "nothing that would suggest a greater incidence associated with creatine supplementation." Two other studies conducted at Arkansas State University in Jonesboro fond that creatine use by 61 Division I athletes during training camps had no effects on the incidence of muscle cramps, injury or illness. These athletes used 15-25g per day on the loading phase, and another 5g/day as maintenance.




Myth: Creatine Needs To Be Taken With Grape Juice.


Truth: The concept behind taking creatine with sugar such as grape juice is sound. But the trick is not the grape juice per serving. It has to do with insulin's function in the body. For creatine uptake to be enhanced, insulin release should be encouraged. Insulin functions as a kind of creatine pump, pushing it into muscles. If you're going to stick to juice, make sure you get at least 100g of juice for every 5g of creatine. Depending on your level and your goals, juice loaded with sugars may not be suitable. Newer research indicates that you can take your creatine with protein for the same results. A new study reports that taking 5g of creatine with 50g of protein/47g of carbs produced the same results as taking 5g with 96g of carbs.




Myth: Creatine Works Better In A Liquid Form.


Truth: In fact, in liquid form, you may not even be getting creatine, but creatinine, a by-product of creatine breakdown. Creatine, in powder form, is extremely stable. When exposed to an acidic environment or moisture for a long time, creatine will begin to break down into worthless creatinine. The citric and phosphoric acids found in many liquid creatines, which are used to preserve the shelf life of these products, actually helps break creatine down. So as a rule of thumb, if you're going to make a creatine shake, drink it by the end of the day.




Myth: All Creatines Are The Same.


Truth: Just as there is a difference between $100 champagne and $15 dollar champagne, there's a difference between high-quality creatine and inferior-grade creatine. Traditionally, Chinese creatine is a lower quality product, with more contaminants such as creatinine, sodium, dicyandiamide, and dihydrotriazine. German creatine, from companies such as SKW (Creapureâ„¢), are cleaner, purer products.




Myth: New Forms Of Creatine Work Better.


News flash: no form of creatine has been proven in published studies to work better than plain old creatine monohydrate powder. Whether you're spending your extra dollar on effervescent, liquid or chewable creatine, the most important consideration is the creatine. And whether you decide to splurge and buy creatine citrate or creatine phosphate remember one thing: the major clinical studies have been performed on plain creatine monohydrate powder. Numerous studies have also shown that creatine powder is easily assimilated by the body. So unless you've got money to burn, stick with creatine monohydrate powder. Products such as effervescent creatine or creatine chewables offer convenience and a novel way to take plain old creatine powder. For real value, there's no better choice than powder.




Myth: Creatine Will Affect By Body's Anabolic Hormone Function.


Truth: While creatine can boost strength and lean mass, research from the University of Leuven in Belgium has shown that it doesn't not alter anabolic hormone response to training. These hormones included growth hormone, testosterone, and cortisol. This research also might suggest that stacking creatine with prohormones or GH secretagogues might be a beneficial.




Myth: Creatine Use Is 100% Safe. False.


Truth: While creatine is non-toxic, creatine use is not wholly risk-free. As with all other nutritional supplements, individuals with pre-existing medical conditions should not take creatine or other sports supplements. For example, there have been at least one case study which reported kidney inflammation in subjects who used creatine. However, in one case, the patient had a pre-existing kidney problem. So before you begin supplementing with anything, the best advice is to see your physician.




Myth: Creatine Is Ideal For All Athletes.


Truth: Some athletes stand to benefit a great deal, others very little. Athletes who require sudden, high intensity bursts of power and strength are ideal candidates for creatine supplements. These athlete might include powerlifters, bodybuilders, sprinters, football, baseball, and basketball players, and the like. Endurance athletes or those who participate in sports which require steady aerobic output may not benefit from creatine use.




Myth: Creatine Must Be Taken At A Specific Time.


Truth: While it has been proven that you can maximize creatine uptake by taking it with a 1:1 ratio of protein to carbs, no real evidence suggests that there's a best time to take creatine. As a supplement, creatine increases your body's pool of creatine. Whether you take it in the morning, afternoon, or evening probably won't make a significant difference. For convenience sake, you might take it with your post-training protein/carb shake.




Myth: Cycling Creatine Will Produce Better Results. False.


Truth: There's no significant evidence which shows that cycling creatine is better than taking it continuously. There's no compelling proof which shoes that creatine supplementation in athletes will down-regulate the body's own ability to produce creatine.




Myth: You Can Get Enough Creatine From Your Diet.


Truth: The average person gets only about 1g of creatine per day from his diet. When you cook your meals, you also destroy a good part of the creatine found in foods such as beef, cod, salmon, and herring.



[This message has been edited by MikeMartial (edited 02-18-2005).]