tea kwon do vs tackling/take downs

i know that that kicking is effective for keeping people away from you but what if they try tackling you, sure you can kick them in the face but there still moving foward and whilst they are theres a good chance theyll get a hold of ya.

what would you do? say if if someone was three feet away and then went for the take down and you coudnt get the kick in quick enough?
perhaps jump over them?
catch them in a reverse headlock and ddt them?
catch them in a reverse headlock and smash their head into a wall or nearby object?

thoughts please.

IF you're quick enough, use your knee (mooreup).

Take care,

Gaffer.

That's why it's not a bad idea to cross train. (ie. Jiu-Jitsu)

Been there done that.
The best way to avoid that situation is to reconize people who are a possible threat,and stay more than three feet away.If thats not possible use your foot work to get out of there.I would not recomend only relying on jiu-jitsu because if you are out numbered the ground is where they want you.Also he could have a knife.Of course,if there is no knife or others to worry about.Jiu-jitsu is perfect!

[This message has been edited by CHU GWOHA (edited 11-23-2004).]

Learn to sprawl. If you can take his back, or drop an elbow on his neck. Not always possible.

The knee is a good technique if you absolutely cannot spend any time getting tangled up ( against several opponents ), but keep in mind it's low percentage, and if it fails you've pretty much given him the takedown.

tackles don't usually start 3 feet away bu still if i were to be tackled from that far away they wouldn't have enough speed to hit me hard enough to keep there momentum so i'd just knee them on impact and rool them away.
however if they were say 8-10 feet away. and did get the necessary speed to keep there momentum I'd probably be to late to counter it before the impact so I'd just raise my knee and give them something hard to land on. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

Sure there's alot of variables... 1 attacker, multiple attackers... for the sake of argument lets stick with one. If multiple... it's 'fight or flight', probably the latter. Let's face it, it's not the 2 on 1 Dojang senario, these thugs will fight dirty, probably want to do some serious bodily injury to you.

I would think the typical street thug DOESN'T want to take the fight to the ground; mostly wants to remain standing. If you should cross a 'mental' grappler of the MMA type, you'd better knock him out before he gets a hold of you, or else...

Taekwondo is not just kicking. Step back in a low front stance and punch to the face, and keep moving back to gain distance.

Sprawling is the best solution.
By the responses some of you gave, I can see you have absolutely no clue.

I'm not seeing much advice here that makes me feel warm and fuzzy. If I had to choose a strategy, I would go with mobility. You're on your feet, so use 'em! Move around, don't trip, look for escapes, and attack fast and hard.

As always, take my advice with a grain of salt, as I have not been in this sort of situation.

I have heard MuayThai (the member) mention something called a flying knee. If I'm correct, that would be a good technique against a charger, assuming that you have room to move forward.

A lot of you seem to be posting with the idea that takedowns == charging. It's probably what an unskilled person would use and it's good to know how to deal with it, but there's more to the takedown world. The takedowns of choice for grapplers are the single or double leg. The grappler will wrap his arms around the back of one or both your legs, and will either lift and slam or reap and drive to put you down. Trained grapplers, especially wrestlers, can shoot in very fast. If the grappler knows striking as well, he may move as close as trapping range, engaging/distracting you with strikes all the while, before going for the single or double leg. A lot of the suggestions in this thread just aren't going to work against that. Sprawling is the best response, and all martial artists practicing combatively need to know how to do it.


[This message has been edited by KylejustKyle (edited 11-30-2004).]

First of all, in Taekwondo you should be able to keep your opponent away enough from you that you can simply kick them in a certain area, preferably the solar plex so you don't severely hurt them, just knock the wind out of them! But thats for fighting unexperienced people, for your question though, I would train in Jui Jitsu for a while. I did Taekwondo for 7 years, Jui Jitsu for 2 years, and have practiced a little Hapkido, and trust me, after taking a couple months of Jui Jitsu, your problem will be solved!

Jujutsu has responses for that. But let us picture it TKD-wise... To tackle they are going to come at you full speed, tilted forward and the head low. You aren't going to check their speed or inertia by standing in place to deliver a kick.

But if you can wheel away to one side (just a bit aiki-like may I suggest) and in so doing maybe deliver the heel of your palm solidly to the side of their head... Well, might not something like that have a good effect?

I am someone who has gained a black belt in Tae Kwon Do had several years of Muay Thai Kick boxing and am currently studying ninjitsu and all I can say that if you don't know what to do if someone is about to tackle you or is three feet away from you and you don't have time to use a powerful kick knock them to the ground if someone is running at you obviously you won't just be like DHur and get demolished think a little ahead that is what the martial arts are for perseption so that you can see when you might need to kick someone in the FACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

aplonis, you and I think very much alike! If someone is coming at you full tilt, get the heck out of the way! Either move to the side or do a spin or something to get to the attackers side, then nail them as hard as you can, either on the temple, or in the ear! If you can daze the attacker, you can either run, or if absolutely neccassary, you can create enough distance to reset & go at'em with quick powerful strikes! That's just me though. Peace!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TKD-21:
I am someone who has gained a black belt in Tae Kwon Do had several years of Muay Thai Kick boxing and am currently studying ninjitsu and all I can say that if you don't know what to do if someone is about to tackle you or is three feet away from you and you don't have time to use a powerful kick knock them to the ground if someone is running at you obviously you won't just be like DHur and get demolished think a little ahead that is what the martial arts are for perseption so that you can see when you might need to kick someone in the FACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[/QUOTE]


I don't follow what you're saying at all. Are you saying that the best response to a takedown attempt is a kick to the face?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by aplonis:
But if you can wheel away to one side (just a bit aiki-like may I suggest) and in so doing maybe deliver the heel of your palm solidly to the side of their head... Well, might not something like that have a good effect?[/QUOTE]

That might work against an untrained drunk rushing you like an enraged monkey, but it's questionable whether it will work against a trained takedown attempt. Trained grapplers, especially wrestlers, are good at changing the direction of their takedown. It seems likely that by spinning you'd end up giving them a single leg takedown and your back. You're only slightly less likely to end up on the ground, but if you do it's more likely you'll be there face down.

I must admitt that I called this one wrong the first time around. After a disscussion with my instructor, I was made to see the light! I am now convinced that KylejustKyle was right. The sprawl approach is your best shot in this case. My plan was o.k, if the attacker was incapable of adjusting to the dodge. When you think about it though, most people, trained or not, are going to shift their attack before you could reset and strike.

Umm, theres other moves too. Gees, if they are going for your legs / waist for a takedown then I would prolly punch them in the temple (punch / backfist). You could also palm strike their ear and blow their eardrum. Not saying you should do this if your attacker is another kid (cos u wanna hurt a fellow kid but not cause too much damage).

I would possibly jump back and move left or right. The WORST thing you can do if someone wants to grapple you is move straight back cos they will just come back again and again.

The best thing you can do is evade back to give yourself time to think and try to open up the attacker. Dont go full on straight in cos thats not the point of martial arts.

Hope this helps

Scott

Let me try to illustrate the problems with the stand and strike approach. In order for the vast majority of strikes to be effective, you have to root yourself with your legs to produce power for impact ( the rest are mostly low percentage highly targeted strikes ). If you don't root, your strikes will be relatively ineffective. Not all strikers train constant contact; all grapplers do so they're used to that sort of thing. When you do root, you've just given away the takedown for sure. Are you willing to trade one shot for the certainty that the rest of the fight is going to happen in the grappler's world, not yours? His hands are up and he's moving in and dropping level fast, you're unlikely to get a clean shot.

I don't know if some of you don't know what a sprawl is or what. Your legs are being attacked, so when you sprawl you move your legs back away from the attack while trying to redirect your opponent's incoming force downards. You can try to strike after that, without having to play the one die roll crapshoot above.


[This message has been edited by KylejustKyle (edited 12-08-2004).]

Kylejustkyle gets it, good post.
Those of you who want to try to strike and not sprawl or learn other mechanicaly effective techniques, learn to fall really really really well.

take a sidekick to there head it will nudge them back or a jumping/exchange front snap kick/front rising kick/flying high kick. when you land get them with a punch/back hand strike that will defenately if you have enough power take THEM down

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Matthewmacintyre:
take a sidekick to there head it will nudge them back or a jumping/exchange front snap kick/front rising kick/flying high kick. when you land get them with a punch/back hand strike that will defenately if you have enough power take THEM down [/QUOTE]

I hate to revisit this thread, but this is a really bad answer. If the guy's just rushing you a head sidekick might work, but why meet force with force? When you execute the side kick you're on one leg, if the guy has any mass to him the impact will also put you badly off balance, possibly grounding you. If he manages to deflect your kick you're on the ground for sure, probably starting off in side or back mount.

Against a skilled takedown attempt it just won't work. By the time you see him dropping level/approaching for the shoot and start raising your leg for the kick, he's going to be close enough to stuff your kick attempt or just grab your leg outright. You've given him the takedown.

I'm not sure what your second answer is, I wish martial artists and their schools would agree to some form of standardized vocabulary. It sounds to me like a jumping kick of some sort? He's lower than you, his head level is about your waist level. He's also almost close enough to reach his arms around and warp around your legs. You don't have the space to do a full jump kick of any sort, and by jumping you've just guaranteed your takedown again. He doesn't even have to wrap your legs well, just drive through. You could try a jumping knee, but then his forward momentum will probably put you on the ground anyway.

most school in my area teach HAPKIDO as while as TAE KWON DO and hapkido truly do work good in close up fighting, i,m also started taking judo been in it for about two year and i think i,m rounding myself off pretty good. like tacobill said cross training is a good ideal each martial arts have there own move that work in different way`s. hapkido is good if you get grab, tak kwon do is good for more than one attacker judo is good when someone grab you and as while as helping out when ur on the ground so cross training is the key.

I don't get in here very often but this thread got my interest.

In my opinion, it is just short of pure fantasy to imagine you can precision kick a grappler who is in the middle of a double leg shot. Also, the flying knee is not effective when you are unable to initiate. It requires forward drive, something you will not have in this situation.

Learn to sprawl, period. Learn to clinch, period. These skills will allow you to at least deny a grappler an easy prey.

lol funny story, this is NOT what you should do in that situation: guy tried to tackle me once before i knew any training, and i just grabbed his throat and hung on for dear life. kinda funny cause it worked but i was really really really lucky to even get a hold of it and keeping it.

anywho, i use the SPEAR stuff for tackles, or you could sprawl, i've used that before. or you could do a straight side step, but only if your quick at 3 ft away. Another one i've used is a back/side angled step and then hinging on it while pushing the dude out of the way.

just whatever works for you, if you can do a liu kang flying kick and work it in that situation, then by all means, MORTAL KOMBAT!

I think to often we assume TKD is all about using our feet. Punches, elbows, and knee strikes are part of the system as well as basic restraint and takedown techniques. However, it doesn't hurt to cross train in styles that better deal with certain situations better than others. I believe TKD can defend well against the tackle in initial stage but if the attacker gets his arms around you and you start to go down it becomes a different fight from there.

Any trained fighter should be able to handle a "tackle" by an untrained person rushing at them.
The bigger concern is when a semi-skilled or skilled person who goes for a takedown.
Tackling and takedown are not the same thing, they are very different animals.

Just reread the title of the thread-should be able to throw your tea cup at them [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/tongue.gif[/IMG]

Train in Hapkido. Tae Kwon Do and Hapkido techniques were originally taught side by side, they're meant to work that way.

A warrior should be skilled in combat at all ranges. If you have weaknesses your enemies can take advantage of them.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Subedei:
Train in Hapkido. Tae Kwon Do and Hapkido techniques were originally taught side by side, they're meant to work that way. [/QUOTE]

There is a hapkido school next the taekwondo school I used to train at, oh and a kumdo (the Korean equivalent of kendo) school a few doors further down. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] (Really! Then again this is in an affluent part of Daejeon)

Overwhelming evidence shows that purely TKD simply doesn't work when faced with a grappler.
There is a video on subfighter.net that you can download, showing a brazilian jiujitsuist fighting a TKDer.
He chokes him out. Twice.

My advice: Crosstrain in a grappling art.

I agree with all the cross training posts. Why limit yourself to one style. Almost any bio you read of a grandmaster will show you how many different arts they trained in. Here are some examples: www.bushido.org/~Circle/mceaddy.htm http://www.triplettacademy.com/stan.html
I am also in TKD. I have also started boxing, ninjutsu and hopefully taijutsu(2 days a month soon)
The more you know the better you will become.

I dunno, I think it's better to stay within one style for quite a while before crosstraining if you intend to do so.
Too much crosstraining can leave you unfocused and screw up your stances among other things.

It should be noted however that I'd consider Tae Kwon Do and Hapkido exactly the same art for various historical reasons. They should not be taught alone if you intend to become a skilled fighter.

[QUOTE]
It should be noted however that I'd consider Tae Kwon Do and Hapkido exactly the same art for various historical reasons. They should not be taught alone if you intend to become a skilled fighter.[/QUOTE]

Why do you believe this to be so? Also you seem to be implying that Tae Kwon Do and Hapkido can be crosstrained together easily because they're very similar, or are in fact the same art. Does that mean it's ok to crosstrain similar styles such as Goju and Uechi Karate, but not ok to crosstrain very different styles such as Shotokan Karate and Judo?

I thought Judo was the same as WWF wrestling, sorry, WWE wrestling, they changed it didnt they? How gay is that!?!

Most 11 year olds are trained quite well in WWE arnt they, it would certainly explain their bedrooms being so messy.

Scott

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nitronix:
I thought Judo was the same as WWF wrestling, sorry, WWE wrestling, they changed it didnt they? How gay is that!?!

Most 11 year olds are trained quite well in WWE arnt they, it would certainly explain their bedrooms being so messy.

Scott[/QUOTE]

There are only so many ways you can project someone to the ground with force, so all styles of such techniques will look somewhat similar. I believe there are just three base throw types. Modern professional wrestling has roots in catch wrestling, which had techniques of this nature as well as joint manipulation techniques. Modern professional wrestlers are also innovative about their craft, and look to other sources for techniques they can adopt for ring use. Judo is one such source.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Subedei:
I dunno, I think it's better to stay within one style for quite a while before crosstraining if you intend to do so.
Too much crosstraining can leave you unfocused and screw up your stances among other things.

It should be noted however that I'd consider Tae Kwon Do and Hapkido exactly the same art for various historical reasons. They should not be taught alone if you intend to become a skilled fighter.[/QUOTE]


i couldn't disagree more on both points you made.

Lots of crosstraining is a great idea, the only way it can screw up is if you dont allow enough time for sparring so you can see what style (or mix of styles) you find most effective and comfortable FOR YOU. But on that same point, if you dont spar anyway, it doesn't matter what you train in, you'll get your a$$ kicked all over the place.
It could also screw up if you only did like 3 months of each art, but that would be something a 10 year old would do.

Also, if you think that TKD and Hapkido are basically the same art, then who ever is teaching you them should be banned from teaching Martial Arts. I live and train in Korea (i train in BJJ, TKD, Muay Thai Kick Boxing, and I have done a little bit of Hapkido), now all arts have their similarities, but that doesn't mean they are the same!
Or maybe if have mis-understood your point?

However, realistically most of us only have enough time to cross train in 2 arts, MAYBE 3. So actually doing too much crosstraining isn't likely to happen.

In my opinion the best arts to cross train in for an effective fighter are Muay Thai kickboxing, BJJ (Or another form of ground fighting). I do TKD mainly for flexability (also i pretty much have 2 instructors to myself for 30 mins of an hour lesson) and Martial Arts are so cheap out here, it would be rude not to.

In response to the original question:
Learning BJJ or another ground fighting art is by far the best way to learn how to deal with takedowns. Learn how to sprawl, and sprawl well. Also get plenty of training in take downs and avoiding takedowns. and dont do it with a TKD instructor, they might tell you something that isn't realistic. Make sure what ever you learn, it is simple and you could do it in a live situation.

Well i've been talking for far too long now.

Good luck
Hope i've helped

By the way,
a point was mentioned earlier about not using a ground art. I think that is a great point. If you stay on the ground his friend is gonna repeatedly kick you in the head until you dont know what your name is. The best thing is to use it so you know how to get back to your feet quickly. Not learning how to fight from the ground because you dont plan on fighting from the ground is foolish, because you never know when you might be put in that situation.

In short, learn to fight on the ground, so you can get back to your feet quicker. Don't stay on the ground.

Sunset,

Believe it or not, that is the way BJJ is commonly taught for Self Defense. The idea of remaining on the ground comes from being tied into a battle where you must pin, reverse, or play guard in an effort to finish the other person within the time limit set for the competition.

Yes you are right, but i'm worried that someone would train in BJJ, and try to win the fight by an arm bar or something, when other people are involved in the fight. Also a lot of places just teach BJJ as a sport, and dont highlight the differences between it's uses as a sport and as a self defense mechanism. But yes, you have a good point.

That is something we emphasize all the time. No better wake up call than a skilled grappler who can also strike, punching your face in because you can't sweep or lock him.

As a TKD practitioner 3 f.t. will be where all of your self defence training takes place.However!!.It would help if you could cross train in Aikido or something of the sort.Trying to counter with a Jump kick,spinning back side,hook or other Will through your balance.Plenty of time to sidestep,re-plan and be effective.P.S.I am new here!!And do not profess to expertice,just my opinions .

Three feet is probably the upper range in terms of distance in self defense situations. They may start there, but most will end up a bit closer.

I have reservations about Aikido as an effective self defense method. Too much fine motor skills involved with the grabbing and twisting to be reliable during adrenal dump. Aikido has roots in styles of unarmed combat for fully armoured warriors against other fully armoured warriors. In their original incarnations, these styles didn't have an adrenal dump problem. By the time you lose your weapon in a battle and have to rely on grabbing and twisting for survival, the effects of adrenal dump are long over. Another reason grabby twisty was preferred was that the opponent's armour tended to make it difficult to find many good targets for striking. Hence the idea was developed of projecting the opponent to the ground, then quickly finding a weapon before he gets up and killing him with it. Things work differently in a modern self defense situation.

Regarding early postings by Sunset and Subedei, I can see both points and hopefully this explains both.

Many Taekwondo schools have Hapkito blended in so it seems flawless in the training. By this I mean you are learning it all from the same instructor and for many students they are not really aware where one ends and the other starts. I think it would be hard for beginners (i.e. myself going on 2.5 years) to go to another school to learn another martial art when I haven't even learned enough from my first. I think this is what Subedei was sort of getting at. Stick with one until you are more then comfortable at applying all of its techniques before taking on another. Small steps at first and later in life when you look back it will seem like you've made great distance.

Cross training is essential, but only if you are in it for the practical use. We should not forget many people are in it for other reasons with one being fitness and cross training would not be an issue.

My school is also one that blends Taekwondo and Hapkito as well as Jujitsu. Now with my instructor taking shoot fighting this can only make us stronger. I'm lucky that I have one main instructor teaching me all that he knows as I think I would get too confused if I went to too many schools at once.

I know I'm a total n00b in martial arts, but can someone explain me why you can't do a jumping kick? I just started Taekwondo and they seem to be quite high, so if it's timed well I tought you could jump over the attacker if they're going for your legs.
I only followed 5 years of Judo, and if you punch a judoka in the face, they'll be practically stunned because they're not used to blocking, but then again I was a blue belt and I knew most techniques for brown belt as well and I never saw anyone grab the opponents legs, so I don't know how it looks like or how to counter it other then the other posts in this thread.

Strictly speaking TKD wise i've learned that doing a kiahh really loudly directed in between their eyes works wonders at making a person hesitate or pause for a split second. Now combine that with what you guys are saying about sprawling and some timing and you can get out of it.

Okay, im a big TKD stylist and have been in alot of fights. And i have fought lots of grapplers/ wreslters.


At my school wreslting is BIG and the caoch wanted me to stop my TKD and join wreslting, i told him NO and he said that wreslting is better. So i asked him to proove it. And he got his wreslting team toghether and asked me if i would take any one on i said "sure, what the hell I will take them all" one at a time though so after school i went to his wrestling meet and took on the wrestling team one by one and i won every match.


So it doesnt really matter what style you learn it matters how good you are and im not saying cross training in martial arts are bad. I also took judo but really use it and i never whent to the ground once when i took one the wreslting team. AND yes the wreslting team is VERY GOOD.

So just keep training and use want works and discard what doesnt. as i say test every move out!

Later

to TKDFighter69:

I'm curious as to what techniques you used to take them on? Also how many years of TKD have you done?

That's incredible! I was in folk style wrestling for 2 years, i learned all about tackling and sprawling. What's really impressive is how you managed to beat them when so many moves in wrestling rely on taking control of the legs and hips. Usually, once this has happened, TKD becomes severely hindered. I applaud your skill.

Okay i have been in MA since i was 3 and i train 24/7. Basically the first 3 guys i front kicked in the head rite when the guy said "fight" and they finaly cought on so i would fake then the guy would back up not to get kicked so i skip forward side kicked.

and basically the rest was foot work and Ki hops, the ki hops really freaked them out, i gave them the Bruce Lee style Ki hops that only mad them piss there pants. But yeah REALLY GOOD foot work and fakes does the tricks and once you hit them just keep hiting none stop.

well thats it later

Imho sprawl, or use a sweep or sacrifice throw if you can manage it (make sure you land on your opponent or away from them, not the other way around). In other words, start training in a grappling MA as a supplement.

Since i'm guessing Mr. Ninja here can't even name the wrestling team...

[QUOTE]Okay i have been in MA since i was 3 and i train 24/7. Basically the first 3 guys i front kicked in the head rite when the guy said "fight" and they finaly cought on so i would fake then the guy would back up not to get kicked so i skip forward side kicked.[/QUOTE]

I saw a real, live unicorn the other day. Too bad noone else was there.

And I didn't have a video camera.

And no, I can't tell you where you can see it.

yeah i was wanting to say something similar to that but eh i don't really care... words are just words and you can believe and say what you want as long as it doesn't get in the way of my training. Not that i'm saying that being able to take down the whole wrestling team... in school.. where it's really not cool to give guys nose bleeds or knock them out due to regulations... is at all something false i'm just saying that it's very hard to do unless you're some superiorly awesome fighter or the wrestling team flat out sucked ass because it's just a bunch of small people wanting to do something other than play chess. But again let me restate that my words are just words don't let them get in the way of your training.
"Exhaustion of Passion is the Beginning of Wisdom"

Dont beleive me i dont care.

the name of the wreslting team is cudahy Bulldogs, and yes they are pretty good. well if you consider being in the top ten is goood, then yeah there good. but look i dont care if you believe me or not. its just a matter of knowing not thinking you can win, and most wreslers are slow and stupid and have one track minds when it comes to fighting, and they have never seen fancy foot work when they fight or crazy ki-hops.

but believe me or not i dont care.
Later

Don't even think about aggravating this by disputing whether he fought the wrestlers or not. This is a valuable thread for TKDers, full of useful information and it will be locked if it spawns an argument.

[This message has been edited by Leo_E_49 (edited 04-25-2005).]

Hey the cudahy Bulldogs sounds familiar might i ask what area do you live in? oh and i'm sorry if you took offense to my comment i was just stating that it's hard to believe. i myself look at high school wrestlers as angry "bulldogs" so to speak and haven't bothered to think if i could beat them or not.

Quote by TKDfighter69 -

[QUOTE]and most wreslers are slow and stupid and have one track minds when it comes to fighting, and they have never seen fancy foot work when they fight[/QUOTE]

OK, now I know you have never fought a real wrestler before. Wrestlers are very fast and mobile and most are far from stupid.

I was prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt, unlikely as it was that you could beat an entire "top 10" rated wrestling team, but I am forced to call BS on your story.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MattJ:
Quote by TKDfighter69 -

OK, now I know you have never fought a real wrestler before. Wrestlers are very fast and mobile and most are far from stupid.

I was prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt, unlikely as it was that you could beat an entire "top 10" rated wrestling team, but I am forced to call BS on your story.[/QUOTE]


im not trying to start an argument or any thing but, what i mean by slow and stupid is, they have ONE TRACK minds, they dont think of any thing else but the ground and if you compare them to a Martial artist they are stupid, and as for speed, compared to a martial artist they are slow.

Wreslters and Martial artists are in two totally different groups but when i said they are slow and stupid i was comparing them in martial art standerds.

But think about it a martial artist and a wreslter....compare them, i mean it! you will see that a wreslter is slow and stupid when it comes to it.

And im VERY sorry if i offended any one at all about calling the wreslters slow and stupid!!!

and yes i did fight a wreslting team that was in the top 10, they were number 10 but, they are still in the top ten.

believe me or not it doesnt matter as long as i know i did it im good.

later

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Strider_Hanzo:
Hey the cudahy Bulldogs sounds familiar might i ask what area do you live in? oh and i'm sorry if you took offense to my comment i was just stating that it's hard to believe. i myself look at high school wrestlers as angry "bulldogs" so to speak and haven't bothered to think if i could beat them or not.[/QUOTE]

Ok I live in Cudahy Wisconsin. No i really didnt take offense to your comment.

I under stand its hard to beleve, but its true. See thats whats wrong with martial artists today (NO OFFENSE TO ANY ONE) but today martial artists think that almost every thing is inpossible, like oh i cant fight that guy or i cant do this are that because this or because that. Thats not how Bruce Lee thought, if he put his mind to it he could do it, and he did. take Bruce Lees one inch punch for example!!! And look at Miyamoto Musashi, who killed over 60 men and and lived to a ripe old age is about the only samurai who died of old age!! I can syre as heck tell you they didnt think they couldnt do the stuff they did.

Im not trying to start an argument.

But i think like Bruce Lee and Miyamoto Musashi, and many others alike. i suggest reading the "Book of Five Rings" by Miyamoto Musashi and you will under stand where im coming from, and read it a couple of times because you might wont get every thing the first time you read it, i read it alot, im on the 4 time reading it now its a wonderfull book.

But hey, im just trying to help.
Just keep training and try every move in every scenario possible and throw away what doesnt work in certain situations, if the move doesnt work in one scenario, try it in another, where one move doesnt work,it will some where else.

Well i got to go later! and keep training!!!

P.S. read the "Book of Five Rings" by Miyamoto Musashi. read it alot at least 3. but read it!!!
Later

Well, having done a fair bit of both, I'll bite my tongue and just say I don't agree.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gemini:
Well, having done a fair bit of both, I'll bite my tongue and just say I don't agree.[/QUOTE]

Dont agree with what??

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TKDFighter69:

what i mean by slow and stupid is, they have ONE TRACK minds, they dont think of any thing else but the ground and if you compare them to a Martial artist they are stupid, and as for speed, compared to a martial artist they are slow.

Wreslters and Martial artists are in two totally different groups but when i said they are slow and stupid i was comparing them in martial art standerds.

But think about it a martial artist and a wreslter....compare them, i mean it! you will see that a wreslter is slow and stupid when it comes to it.

And im VERY sorry if i offended any one at all about calling the wreslters slow and stupid!!! [/QUOTE]

This. But you apologized which is why I bit my tongue.

WHEW........my eyes are tired from all that reading.

With that said i am gonna close the thread cause I don't want this to turn into a flame war.

Im nipping it in the bud.....

GC