Any Olympic sparring tips On fast Guy?

iam black belt in TKD.. Pretty good.. That dude always gives me a hard time sparring him. he is fast and got good combos. i tried every thing fake, go in, check, knee up . every thign u cna think off. Any tips from experts?
thank you

have you tried knocking him out yet?

Buddy this is Olympic sparring! no punching to head..

yes. Olympic Sparring. It does have knockouts. Kicking to the head, at black belt level (you did say you were a bb, didn't you?) is very legal and usually the prefered method of winning via knockout.

any one just help me wit technique

Hey you are the "good" blackbelt in olympic sparring. Although you not knowing you can knock someone out in Olympic is a bit unsettling.

Maybe you should take something more your speeed?

Knitting, perhaps?

try this,
stand on your left leg, right leg up in a half chambered position, left hand checks in front of the face, right hand acts as a lead, elbow bent please!!! I don't guarantee you will score lots, that depends on you, but if you are any good at all you won't be scored on from this position.

Right. Unless the other person is better. Or patient.

Remember the only "their is NO WAY this guy will score on you if you use this technique" that actually works is not getting in the ring.

But I will let you kids discuss amongst yourselves.

as far as better goes, my former sensei was a 6th dan in tkd and he won many matches by retreating to exactly this stance. As far as patient goes, what are they waiting for? Surely you can stand on one leg for 2 minutes. Not that you would have to. Your opponent will eventually attack, and then you counter. By the way the whole kid crack, I am 28 years old and have been doing various martial arts for over half my life. I never claimed that the stance was perfect, the application depends on the defender, some people can't walk without tripping. That's not my fault, and the technique of walking seems to work for everyone else fairly well.
Personally I don't use this stance because I am a more agressive fighter, but many others make it work.
Just trying to help.

It is a basic block. Anyone worth their salt will beat the hell out of you in an Olympic match if you "stood on 1 leg for 2 minutes".


Anyone else remember when BB rounds were almost always 3 3's?

By the way if your "sensei" was a 6th dan in TKD, maybe he shouldn't be called "sensei" [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

I've had trouble with some of the smaller quicker guys, who have very fast counters. Every time I through a kick they spin round with that back kick and keep you out. I find the best thing to do is aim a front leg side kick at there hip, when they go for the back kick it will knock them off balance and I usually rush inw ith punches but seeing as it is olympic a kick or body punches would suffice.

In this situation I am a fair bit taller then the person I'm fighting (This technique is used alot at world champ level however the people who use it are usually taller). If you are the same height and he has faster kicks and better combos then u need to train harder and get faster.

by the way I can name a host of 6th and 7th dans that I could beat in point sparring. You don't get hihg ranks in TKD by winning tornaments so rank has shit all to do with point fighting ability.

[This message has been edited by kiwi (edited 06-27-2004).]

Now KIWI has brains.

Yes. Use distance to keep the smaller quicker fighter away. Since you are a blackbelt I'll give you a tip to go along with Kiwi's tip.

Even if you have to strike an area that isn't a "scroing target" do it. That means if you want to check his distance and his hip isn't open, smash a sidekick into his arm. He will change up or start to raise the arm enough to stuff into the hip.

The kick into the hip can also be used to set up a 45 kick to the body or a back kick to the body.

This was termed as a "cut-kick". It really isn't a pure sidekick; almost a front kick mixed with a side kick.

But when in doubt, just use a side kick.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Uriel:
...The kick into the hip can also be used to set up a 45 kick to the body or a back kick to the body...
[/QUOTE]

Uriel is right but what I like to do is fake a rear leg round kick but change it to a cut kick placing my foot on the opponents hip and using them as a supporter I jump off my other foot and execute a jump back kick to the helmet. I use this but because this is a knock out technique, only use it durring competions where Knockuots are allowed. This kick is the easier form of a 360 jump back kick. Also, when some one is rushing you stop him with a cut kick and then do a 45 round kick with other leg.

right which is also the same set up to the backkick to the body instead of head. but if you got it, use it.

I called him sensei because I have been doing Japanese styles for five years now, he was Norm to me. As far as the statement about point sparring and having nothing to do with rank, I would agree with this. I have sparred with a few sandans who didn't even touch me. I also use the kicking technique that you are discussing of kicking to the lead hip, although mine is a little more like a push kick. I never saw anyone beat Norm, but he was more of a full contact fighter, as am I. The idea behind this stance is to stand in it until your opponent is dumb enough to attack, and then counter. Not stand there all day. Most of your opponents are not patient enough to wait for you all damn day. I spar in a cross between a karate and a tkd stance, because it suits my needs and abilities. Shallow stance with my hands in a shuto position ( but with closed fists). I teach sparring to children and seldom lose to advanced belts, but this is still a posture that I teach, because it makes your opponent have to work for it. Yes it is basic, but basics are what work in most situations. That is why they are taught first and you are supposed to practise them for life.

At international level...hell at even national level that stance should only work briefly. If you curl up in it, you will be taken apart.

Maybe you and norm should get out and fight more [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

Wouldn't a full contact fighter think the raising the leg idea even more ridiculous the point sparrers? I mean it's a poor technqiue in point sparring but in full contact it's suicidal.

I think that you need to work on your balance if you think that raising your leg is suicidal, I have stopped many attacks from a chambered position, as well as landing many side kicks this way. As far as Norm goes, it is very Rude to insult my former master, especially when you know nothing about him. If you did you wouldn't say such things. I will not give you his real name cause that would be very disrespectful, but lets just say if you were half the fighter he is you would have a room full of trophies.

Ps kiwi I told you that I don't spar this way. Two posts ago. But this is a very easy position to be in to jam a kick.

A) Every jackass that went to an MA tourny has a room full of trophies.

B) If you just stand on one leg, you will get your ass kicked by anyone good.

C) Why do you feel the need to bash Kiwi? I don't recall him saying anything about your "master".

D) Blah blah blah.

Please tell you master and his trophy cabinet that i sincerely apologise for offending him and his trophy cabinet in any way. My intetnion was never to offend him and his trophy cabinet it was to share my knowledge with one of his and his trophy cabinets students.

After rewatching karate kid I must say that you were right. The standing on the one leg kick is a brilliant kick. Your master and his trophy cabinet sure know there stuff.

The opposition you faced must've been top class for the super deadly one legged kick to even be allowed. Your master and his trphy cabinet must go to some pretty deadly tornaments.

Obviously the Olympic point sparrers are no where near the calliber of your master and his trophy cabient otherwise thay would use the one legged kick.

Obviously K-1 level strikers are no where near the caliber of your master and his trophy cabinet otherwise they would all use the one legged kick.

p.s. now i'm being disrespectful [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Kiwi,

LOL. The kid means to block with the knee in a sideways fashion (God I hope he does) and not that crane LOL. But yeah...it's a lot like that otherwise.

Question for you though. You call it "olympic point sparring". Just wondering why?

Just to distinguish between the different rules in point sparring. I could call it WTF rules but most non-TKD persons don't know much about the organisations. However most people have seen or atleast hear that TKD was in the Olympics.

So the main reason is just so everyone can follow what I'm saying.

The stance described is particuallarly inneffective (speelling? I changed it to remove the joke) if front leg sweeps are allowed... as you only have the front leg. also if you are quick enough and can get inside their chamber you can score quickly with a hand technique. As far as beating a fast person (though I'm still low ranking), I can't give much advise, from what I have seen I am the fast guy. Try being defensive, when my opponent does that it messes me up. I like to wait for them to attack so that I can counter, but it depends on the method used by your opponent. Try to go for a knockdown and hard hits to the body so that he gets point deductions and gets winded.

Also you could chase a chicken around to try and get faster, because as everyone knows if you can catch a chicken you can catch greased lightning.

[This message has been edited by Christiancadet (edited 07-01-2004).]

The stance described works really well if front leg sweeps are allowed...

No

No more jokes, this simply doesn't work.

a This in no way resembles the crane kick in karate kid, I believe this is called fast kick in tkd.
b you are turned at 45 degrees to your opponent, not straight on idiot.
c my former master is a former 2 time Kumite champion, yes like bloodsport Jackass
d I am not a kid I am 28 years old and I have been doing ma for almost 20 of those years
e ever heard of a side kick
f you are not standing on the lead leg
g Norm used this stance for point sparring with green belts for green belt humilition, some of which were black belts in other styles such as Shotokan which is the same shit as tkd, and he said if you could touch him you won. In 12 years no one ever did.
h If all your targets are covered how does anyone score a point on you, unless you are slow enough and dumb enough to let them get behind you.
i ever tried a sliding side kick, try three or four of em from this position.

Heres another Kumite champion.
http://www.myhero.com/myhero/hero.asp?hero=frank_dux_taft_ul

Now read this, when I have time I will post a more thourough article.
http://martialarts.jameshom.com/library/weekly/aa073001b.htm


Underground tornaments, lol.

I didn't say it was frank dux, I would never train under a movie legend, ickk. My master recieved an engraved katana valued at approximately 5,000 U.S. dollars in the seventies. He doesn't live in the states and I only found out about this through a late night conversation over beers. Not from random bragging to get students, like so many champions.

He is a 3rd dan in Hapkido, a 6th dan in tkd and a 4th dan in tang soo do.

so is everyone with a sewing machine.

I know the technique you are talking about.

It is very useful...but it isn't "god".

You will get smoked if you use it all the time.

Trust me.

Or if you don't trust, go pay the USTU some money
Enter into the US Open

btw, Kiwi...

Thank you for clarifying the wtf point thing. I guess I always did the olympic="full contact" point="tag" thing [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

Tell me how you place.

[This message has been edited by Uriel (edited 07-01-2004).]

a This in no way resembles the crane kick in karate kid, I believe this is called fast kick in tkd.
I know, I was making fun (thought it was pretty obvious and did no warrant smileys). This is not called a fast kick in TKD, it slightly resembles a shuffling side kick (which is only used for point sparring).

b you are turned at 45 degrees to your opponent, not straight on idiot.

see above, do you really need to add insults on to the end of every sentence. My last post may have been sarcastic but it prooved a point, adding idiot or Jackass proves nothing.


c my former master is a former 2 time Kumite champion, yes like bloodsport Jackass

Now you are trying to win an argument by stating credentials. However you refused to name this guy so none of this is varifiable. If youre not willing to back up the credentials don't post them.

d I am not a kid I am 28 years old and I have been doing ma for almost 20 of those years

I however am a kid, but URiel isn't and I'm sure if you post about this technique in the martial arts talk forum you will get a similar response.

e ever heard of a side kick"

No (do i need to post a smiley?)

f you are not standing on the lead leg

that was obvious (although not to some)

g Norm used this stance for point sparring with green belts for green belt humilition, some of which were black belts in other styles such as Shotokan which is the same shit as tkd, and he said if you could touch him you won. In 12 years no one ever did.
h If all your targets are covered how does anyone score a point on you, unless you are slow enough and dumb enough to let them get behind you.

Because under forward pressure it is impossible to stay on one leg ( you aint gonna hop back faster then a person can run). In the best case scenario you hit me once before I am ontop of you, you can either stayon one leg and try to out punch me (wont happen because you cannot generate the same power when you are one leg) or you can try and put you leg down (it wont be down before I get there so you will be off balance).

The biggest point is that the best in the world at point sparring are Olympic point sparrers. If youre technqiue worked in point sparring they would use it, however it doesnt.

The best full contact kickboxers in the world are in K-1. If the technique you talk about worked then they would use it.

You also state that he used this to humiliate people (sounds like a really nice guy), but doesn't that mean he is using it against people he is vastly better then. Which then means he's not using it against good people. Which probably means it doesn't work against good people.

By the way I know your master isn't Frank Dux i'm just showing you that alot of credentials can be bullshit. Please either post something that can varify this or be quite about it.

It is too easy to post somethign such as my instructor is the 15 time world champion in so and so but out of respect I will not name him.

http://sonkal.taekwondo.cz/videogalerie-en.php?rok=2001


Uriel
this is the style of TKD I do^^, you can judge for yourself hwo the sparring measure up. There are over a hundred videos on this site.
http://sonkal.taekwondo.cz/reindex-en.ph...en.php?rok=2001

Heres a highlite if you don't want to donwload all the vids. You need to have the DIVX codec to run these videos. There is avtuall some beaut counters to the shuffling side kick (similar to the technique reapers talking about however you are moving forward).

Two counters for that in the video are a reverse turning kick and a switch turning kick.




[This message has been edited by kiwi (edited 07-02-2004).]

Because under forward pressure it is impossible to stay on one leg ( you aint gonna hop back faster then a person can run). In the best case scenario you hit me once before I am ontop of you, you can either stayon one leg and try to out punch me (wont happen because you cannot generate the same power when you are one leg) or you can try and put you leg down (it wont be down before I get there so you will be off balance).

Exactly my point too, Kiwi. It is great for either a quick defense in the right position or to try to track someone once in a while.

I looked at the video or two in the link you put in. I have fought in that style before.

I do wonder how hard you guys hit though? I have seen two different versions of that style. One is in the mma leagues where it is like Olympic TKD with punching to the face. ie. Full out contact. The other was more like ITC Point sparring ie. Light contact.

But yeah, I could even tell you what those mats feel like LOL. Good vids. Thanks.

P.S. I also think that they show the hopping mentioned in one persons post correctly, as opposed to some Shotokan (to the other guy, shoto and tkd are not really the same. bb in 1 does not mean a bb in the other. also your instructor was beating up green belts? Yeah...that's my hero.) bouncing which is more like a huge foot stomp.

[This message has been edited by Uriel (edited 07-02-2004).]

In the stance that reaperblack stated couldn't u just knockmthe half chambered leg out of the way and goin punch or a round kick?

What happens if your opponent uses the same stance? Is there a time limit or will you stand there in a never ending face off like to monoliths lost to time. If I was wrong about the forward leg thing sorry, I had just been told at a tournament I went to that they defined the forward leg as the farthest forward to be placed solidly on the ground which would make me correct however I could easilly (and probably am) be wrong, in Olympic sparring which is what I usually do doesn't to the best of my knowlegde allow sweeps but I though we were talking about but that was just cleared up and revealed to me that we were reffering to Olympic Sparing (I think?) in which case the forward leg sweep was a completely useless comment.

Sorry

[QUOTE]Originally posted by taekwondosamurai:
In the stance that reaperblack stated couldn't u just knockmthe half chambered leg out of the way and goin punch or a round kick?[/QUOTE]

LOLOLOL

Errrmm...actually...that *IS* the "defense" I use for that stance. That and jaming.

Firstly let me apologize for my unwillingness to discuss things in a civilized manner in my previous posts. I became one of those people that I hate, and for this I am sorry. You are right, rather than insult you I should offer evidence or shut up. I have none. This stance when I have used it, has worked for me. I can absorb a full kick with my shin while standing on one leg and not stumble, usually I choose to jam it closer to the ground, but I can. You don't have to believe me, and I understand if you don't. Norm never beat anyone up, he never had to. He was a very good instructor and a good martial artist. Again in this case I am unwilling to offer proof and if you don't believe me that's still ok. This stance, like any stance isn't meant to be used all the time. You should never do anything all the time, you become predictable. No you cannot counter this with a kick to the shin and a groin punch, groin punching is illegal, and if you kick my shin that's all the reaction you get. Part of the reason why their may be some variations in balance and technique is my build. I have big feet, I am short (5'8"), and I am a former powerlifter with 24" legs. So I am close to the ground and stable. None of this needs to be discussed, again I apologize for my immaturity of late.
Have a good day.
Roger

how much do you weigh in lbs?

I weigh 112 at 5'6 (I've grown!) though I don't think you were asking me... really old typo

[This message has been edited by Christiancadet (edited 07-19-2004).]

214 lbs right now, because I gained weight on my vacation. My best weight for competion is about 197lbs.

a 5'8" heavyweight?

good luck...yer going to neeed it.

i'm the same way in sparring fast and usually effective. the best advice i can give u is keep your gaurd up and look for repeated actions before his big combos.
expl. if he did a combo like roundhouse, double roundhouse/sissor kick you might look for repeated swith foots, or hop steping.
I hope this helps. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

Look children let me explain something to you guys.

I have been in TKD for over 10 years now. I started when I was 13 and I am now 24. I have competed on the City, State, National, and International levels. The crap you guys are speaking of all has adv's and disadv's.

Look if we are agreeing that the other person is faster than you - now if you are the same height you spar primarily definsively. Keep your distance with front leg sidekicks and 45 degree pivots (like then he comes at you with a hop-step kick or just runs in), evading is very useful and conseves your energy. If he is persistant wait until he is tired and counter him usually with a turning back side kick or turing hook kick then hop-step toward him and contnue throwing combos until he is forced out of the ring. If he is quicker and gets in close then use a pushing font kick - if he falls down you are awarded one point.

If the guys is taller than you and faster then you need to work on an agressive approach where you get in and out quick. Probably fast cuts to the inside (watch your head), use simole kicks no hook kicks, only your fastest and accurate kicks like fron side, turning back, and roundhouse. Use your front leg followed by your back. Try to keep him off his rythem since he is faster.

If you are taller (and he s still fast like ha been the case the whole scenario) - spar defensivly keep him at a distance like the first scenario i talked about. This time let him inside and go for the crescent and hook kicks to the head. When and if they tire out then move to an offensive attack.

No matter what situation you are in while sparring you always have to be adaptive to the situation - this is why we have continuous sparring. For the longest time back when I was competing I weighed 187 pounds and was put in the heavyweight divisino becasue i was stockier and bigger than most guys in whatever divisinon I was put in back then (cant remember). I have always sparred people A LOT bigger than me. However I was always faster. In fact I am probably one of the fastest heavy weights in college competition right now. I remember last year I sparred in the Carolina Open here in Chapel Hill. I was 194 pounds. There was only 1 other person in the heavy weight division he was 240 pounds and 3 inches taller. Even though I was faster I lost because 1. I lost a lot of speed. 2. I was not prepared to spar and pulled a groin muscle the night before 3. his counters were right on the money 4. it was like mike tyson sparring george forman. Sometimes there just isnt anything you can do, but you can always put your heart into the match and earn the respect of your competitors. Now i weigh 225, have almost NO speed but I am as big as the guys I will be sparring - we will see whos timing is better on counters, but I am making every effort to start training 3 hours a day now and get my speed back. I remember when my back leg roundhouse was faster than an avg persons front hand jab.

I hope this helps you out.