Why is ATA so bad?

Posted by: Applepie

Why is ATA so bad? - 04/30/04 08:23 PM

Why is ATA so bad? My instructor has kept people at their belts if they weren't ready, and has even taken them away when students were disrespectful.
Posted by: TKD info

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 05/01/04 01:57 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Applepie:
Why is ATA so bad? My instructor has kept people at their belts if they weren't ready, and has even taken them away when students were disrespectful. [/QUOTE]


Are you sure it is ATA or the instructor. Who would want to promote a student if they aren't ready, that is silly. Ummm wait a minute, a commercial martial art school would. You have to think if someone just gives out belt then what is really the use of earning one. If a student is disrespectful, what is it teaching the student, to be respectful. C'mon, I know that disciplining a student by taking away the belt maybe harsh but, see it from the teacher's point of view, Student comes to me to learn, he/she disrespects me, I correct them, okay he/she continues to disrespect me, they do 100 push ups, they decline, okay, give them a verbal warning, they say "who cares", ask for the belt in hand and request when they are ready to hold that belt with honor and dignity and to respect the value of the tradtions of martial art then he/she can wear it. A belt regardless of the color (except Black), symbolizes meaning and sweat, where as a Black belt use to mean SOOOOOOOOOO MUCH. Actually let me correct my self, Black Belt means alot, by law ( you need to check with your local law ) you must notify your perp (perpetrator - one who is fighting you) that you are a black belt. Why? you are considered by law a walking lethal weapon. Think about it, someone calls you a name, okay, you turn around and pop him/her one. Your arrested for assault and batter, he/she takes you to court, the judge finds you guilty do to lack of control because of your studies of martial arts, you must serve 6months to a year or do community service and then pay for doctor bills. Do you want to be the one that just paid for his black belt or the one that earned it and can control the aspects of Self Defense. Don't be the next victim. Judges expect alot more from us and so do the law.
Posted by: TKD info

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 05/01/04 02:00 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TKD info:

Are you sure it is ATA or the instructor. Who would want to promote a student if they aren't ready, that is silly. Ummm wait a minute, a commercial martial art school would. You have to think if someone just gives out belt then what is really the use of earning one. If a student is disrespectful, what is it teaching the student, to be respectful. C'mon, I know that disciplining a student by taking away the belt maybe harsh but, see it from the teacher's point of view, Student comes to me to learn, he/she disrespects me, I correct them, okay he/she continues to disrespect me, they do 100 push ups, they decline, okay, give them a verbal warning, they say "who cares", ask for the belt in hand and request when they are ready to hold that belt with honor and dignity and to respect the value of the tradtions of martial art then he/she can wear it. A belt regardless of the color (except Black), symbolizes meaning and sweat, where as a Black belt use to mean SOOOOOOOOOO MUCH. Actually let me correct my self, Black Belt means alot, by law ( you need to check with your local law ) you must notify your perp (perpetrator - one who is fighting you) that you are a black belt. Why? you are considered by law a walking lethal weapon. Think about it, someone calls you a name, okay, you turn around and pop him/her one. Your arrested for assault and batter, he/she takes you to court, the judge finds you guilty do to lack of control because of your studies of martial arts, you must serve 6months to a year or do community service and then pay for doctor bills. Do you want to be the one that just paid for his black belt or the one that earned it and can control the aspects of Self Defense. Don't be the next victim. Judges expect alot more from us and so do the law.
[/QUOTE]


I also want to add that if you are being attacked and have no time to mention that you are a black belt then you have to do what is necessary to defend. Otherwise, notifying your perp will give them a decision to either to continue to fight or step away and walk away.
Posted by: Applepie

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 05/01/04 02:15 PM

I mean... they're calling ATA a McDojang and that they give out belts if they pay for it, and I was trying to say something to contradict it.
Because I don't think... that all ATA schools are McDojangs.

But thank you! [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]
Posted by: Uriel

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 05/02/04 12:04 PM

something about "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" comes to mind when I want to post on this subject.
Posted by: Applepie

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 05/02/04 10:58 PM

Please Mr.Uriel... I'd like to know!!
Posted by: Uriel

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 05/03/04 12:50 AM

years from now...hopefully you will never need to know.

just have fun at what you do
Posted by: JohnL

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 05/03/04 08:25 AM

You do not need to tell any perp that you are a blackbelt, nor do you have to register your hands/feet as lethal weapons.

You're talking total garbage.

JohnL
Posted by: Uriel

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 05/03/04 10:29 AM

Not sure if this went through the first time or not but..

John is correct. I didn't read it before otherwise I would have said it...

garbage...pure garbage.

That's the stuff that people believe that will get you killed or laughed at hysterically.
Posted by: Applepie

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 05/03/04 02:39 PM

Okay... would you clarify one last thing for me?
I guess there are DoJangs where, if you work your butt off, you'll get the most out of it, but if you don't, you'll still get a belt but it won't get you anywhere.

Is ATA one of those DoJangs? Or is it not even that?

Thank you both.
Posted by: cxt

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 05/03/04 04:05 PM

Since the ATA are a national chain with 100s (at least) of schools I would expect the training and teaching standards to vary greatly from school to school.
Posted by: Uriel

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 05/03/04 07:41 PM

Screw it. I was never one to make friends. Like my friend that I did make said once...

"we'll burn that bridge when we get there."

Since you seem to be pushing for an "Yes ATA blows" answer...

Far be it from me to let you down.

Yes, the ATA is the McDojang of McDojangs (in general). Your style is a franchise and nothing more. Your "national" champions are champions only because they don't invite other organizations to join. Even then your sparring is just tag.

MOST ATA schools have a guarunteed black belt program.

MOST of them are great for one thing...

Babysitting.

With that all said remember the #1 rule...JUST HAVE FUN
Posted by: TKD info

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 05/05/04 03:03 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JohnL:
You do not need to tell any perp that you are a blackbelt, nor do you have to register your hands/feet as lethal weapons.

You're talking total garbage.

JohnL

[/QUOTE]

John you seem to disagree with what I said. I think you might want to look into your local laws before judging my advice.

By law there are 3 level of force that is applied when defending oneself. 1st is controlled force which would allow for the judge not to convict you on a basis that you set the fight where your opponent was either held down or striked with an exceptional stun. Otherwise you will be convicted of the 2nd law of force, excessive force, in which your perp grabs your wrist, you turn and strike the perp in which he lets go of your wrist and grabs his face or crotch, but then, you continue to kick or strike him repeatedly 3/4/5 or more times. (minimal 30 days in jail no community service). The last but well known least used deadly force, only allowed when the perp has endangered your life by carrying a weapon.

Just as a note, if at any point your opponent retreats in any way and you continue to strike your opponent, expect to be sued and maybe (depending on judge) you will introducing your self to the pit crew in the holding cell. So as far as garbage, don't think so,My friend is a Martial Arts Lawyer, please check his website out http://karatelaw.com/martialarts.html. This may open you guys eyes more. He has defended so many black belts it is just so unbelievable, and John you maybe one of them soon with your narrow mindedness. Just remember you heard it from me first, advising you about the law. Remember, we may enjoy all of those striking, kicking, and choking aspect of martial arts, but when you injure someone, regardless of being attacked or just doing dumb stuff, you can be taken to court. Remember we live in the U.S.
Posted by: TKD info

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 05/05/04 03:04 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Uriel:
Not sure if this went through the first time or not but..

John is correct. I didn't read it before otherwise I would have said it...

garbage...pure garbage.

That's the stuff that people believe that will get you killed or laughed at hysterically.
[/QUOTE]


Uriel, you don't know much about the law, so please look it up and maybe you might want to ask a counselor, if it were to happen.
Posted by: JohnL

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 05/05/04 09:50 AM

Hi TKD info:

The link you gave didn't go anywhere. Is it typed right.

I went to www.karatelaw.com where a Mr Kaufman has a site. He says he's a Martial Artist amd lawyer and offers services with regards to MA and the law. Is this the site you meant?

On that site there is no mention whatsoever of registering your hands/feet as lethal weapons.

Further, your comments onthe use of force are put forward as fact when you have used nothing to back them up. With my (admittedly limited) experience of the law, things are not black or white and to set things out as such is to give a false impression.

If you stand and stomp on a guys head for a while, yes you're going to jail. But not because you're a martial artist.

JohnL
Posted by: Uriel

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 05/05/04 11:10 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TKD info:

Uriel, you don't know much about the law, so please look it up and maybe you might want to ask a counselor, if it were to happen.
[/QUOTE]

I don't know much about the law? Hmmmmm...how wrong that is. I wish you well in whatever fantasy world you live in man.
Posted by: Applepie

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 05/05/04 03:15 PM

and uh... the issue isn't really about the law... John is saying that you really wouldn't have the skills/power that a real blackbelt would have if you came from a McDojang.

okay, I'll just have fun at my martial arts dancing. kam sah hae yo. *kisses you all*
Posted by: JohnL

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 05/05/04 05:00 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Applepie:
and uh... the issue isn't really about the law... John is saying that you really wouldn't have the skills/power that a real blackbelt would have if you came from a McDojang.

okay, I'll just have fun at my martial arts dancing. kam sah hae yo. *kisses you all*
[/QUOTE]

Hey Applepie

If you're refering to my posts, I said nothing about the guys abilities and where he trained. I am questioning the advice he is giving regarding the law.

JohnL
Posted by: Uriel

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 05/05/04 05:12 PM

In re to blackbelts and lethal weapons...

In japan they had to register so people knew who was a real black belt or not.

In the US this is not so.

In fact..
http://www.tafkac.org/faq2k/legal_2007.html

Check it out. Read it...

It deals with both not having to register yourself and excessive force.

Now anyone wishes to discuss this further, please feel free to start a new topic. I would be interested in knowing any statute or case that dealt with registering as a weapon and the such.

Remember, I can back up what I post about the law...can you?
Posted by: TKD info

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 05/06/04 02:22 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Uriel:
In re to blackbelts and lethal weapons...

In japan they had to register so people knew who was a real black belt or not.

In the US this is not so.

In fact..
http://www.tafkac.org/faq2k/legal_2007.html

Check it out. Read it...

It deals with both not having to register yourself and excessive force.

Now anyone wishes to discuss this further, please feel free to start a new topic. I would be interested in knowing any statute or case that dealt with registering as a weapon and the such.

Remember, I can back up what I post about the law...can you?
[/QUOTE]

Urial, I prefer to spell it my way as you can do whatever you want with mine, since you are so ignorant minded.

In regards to registering your hands as a lethal weapon, no you do not need to do that as I never mentioned that you have to go to the local police station to register your hands or feet. NO, i never said that, what I meant was, if a person did however get into a fight, the person knowing self defense has to realize the potential danger that may come out of a situation. Again, in regards to the McDojangs and the McMartial Artists with their fake black belts, most of them seem as though they can just walk out with their heads up high and then look for a fight without realizing the consequences behind it. Which I was stating on the law. You may know the law, but, doesn't you have been to a trial as things don't just fall in your lap as you hoped it did. So please realize the importance that regardless of defending yourself, it will all depend on the outcome of the defense. Again, witness to this experience and crime, a perp grabs a fanny pack from a purse, the husband stops him by grabbing his jacket then doing a judo leg trip (tai toshi) the guy falls then doubles over to the side. Well that was control force, until he literally mounted the guy then started to beat him, excessive force. Big difference, now do you see my point. Again, we may know and enjoy what we learn, but when it comes down to the law we have to be in control at all times, depending on the attack.
Posted by: JohnL

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 05/06/04 07:42 AM

Hi TKD info:

However you did say that you had to notify the perp that you were a blackbelt. You haven't commented further on this statement, which is garbage.

As for you hands/feet being lethal weapons in the eyes of the law, you have not backed this up in any way. I, like Uriel, would like to know of any statutes where this is the case.

JohnL
Posted by: Uriel

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 05/06/04 10:48 AM

TKD Info,

I, like John L, wonder if you actually do read any of our posts or maybe suffer from a slight mental disfunction and just post random thoughts instead?

I still await any "proof" for you to back up your "opinions".
Posted by: TKD info

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 05/07/04 12:55 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JohnL:
Hi TKD info:

However you did say that you had to notify the perp that you were a blackbelt. You haven't commented further on this statement, which is garbage.

As for you hands/feet being lethal weapons in the eyes of the law, you have not backed this up in any way. I, like Uriel, would like to know of any statutes where this is the case.

JohnL
[/QUOTE]

John please visit this sight in regards our hands and feet are considered deadly weapons.
http://home.earthlink.net/~haskman/va_law.htm

. DEFINITION OF SELF DEFENSE

A. Self defense is a law of necessity.

B . The amount of force used in self defense must be reasonable under the circumstances.

C. Deadly force cannot be used in self defense unless there is a reasonable fear that the person is in danger of being killed or suffering great bodily harm.

D. Deadly force is most often defined as using a deadly weapon (see section V, Malice), but hands and fists can be deadly weapons when they are repeatedly used against an unresisting or incapacitated person.

C. Self defense is viewed from the mind of the person acting in self defense. (ie. Does this person have a reasonable fear of some harm that justifies his acting in self defense.).

F. Two types of self defense: Justifiable (no fault) and Excusable (partly to blame for the conflict).

G. The general self defense jury instruction:

THE COURT INSTRUCTS THE JURY THAT the amount of force used in self-defense must be reasonable in relation to the harm threatened, and that the defendant is not allowed to use deadly force in self- defense unless he reasonably feared, under the circumstances as they appeared to him, that he was in danger of being killed or that he was in danger of great bodily harm.

[This message has been edited by TKD info (edited 05-07-2004).]
Posted by: TKD info

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 05/07/04 12:56 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Uriel:
TKD Info,

I, like John L, wonder if you actually do read any of our posts or maybe suffer from a slight mental disfunction and just post random thoughts instead?

I still await any "proof" for you to back up your "opinions".
[/QUOTE]

You are the better MAN. I leave it at that.
Posted by: Uriel

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 05/07/04 02:25 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TKD info:
John please visit this sight in regards our hands and feet are considered deadly weapons.
http://home.earthlink.net/~haskman/va_law.htm

. DEFINITION OF SELF DEFENSE

A. Self defense is a law of necessity.

B . The amount of force used in self defense must be reasonable under the circumstances.

C. Deadly force cannot be used in self defense unless there is a reasonable fear that the person is in danger of being killed or suffering great bodily harm.

D. Deadly force is most often defined as using a deadly weapon (see section V, Malice), but hands and fists can be deadly weapons when they are repeatedly used against an unresisting or incapacitated person.

C. Self defense is viewed from the mind of the person acting in self defense. (ie. Does this person have a reasonable fear of some harm that justifies his acting in self defense.).

F. Two types of self defense: Justifiable (no fault) and Excusable (partly to blame for the conflict).

G. The general self defense jury instruction:

THE COURT INSTRUCTS THE JURY THAT the amount of force used in self-defense must be reasonable in relation to the harm threatened, and that the defendant is not allowed to use deadly force in self- defense unless he reasonably feared, under the circumstances as they appeared to him, that he was in danger of being killed or that he was in danger of great bodily harm.

[This message has been edited by TKD info (edited 05-07-2004).]
[/QUOTE]

So basically you just posted something that backed up John and my claim. Nowhere do you state in this post that you have to register as a lethal weapon (which we both told you was bull) nor that you have to tell someone you are a bb before fighting (which is bull too)

I think you (or myself) is misunderstanding the subject of having the hands/feet concidered LETHAL weapons. *I* am saying (I can't speak for John) that since YOU said that the Hands/Feet were Lethal Weapons and needed to be registered as such...that you should prove this as I have posted facts otherwise. What you just posted here was saying that the feet/hands can be concidered a deadly weapon if they beat someone to death. A PILLOW can be used as a deadly weapon via suffercation. What you stated before and what you are discussing/trying to "prove" now are two TOTALLY seperate issues.

But remember one thing about website definitions...they are just that. Websites

[This message has been edited by Uriel (edited 05-07-2004).]
Posted by: TKD info

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 05/07/04 04:19 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Uriel:
So basically you just posted something that backed up John and my claim. Nowhere do you state in this post that you have to register as a lethal weapon (which we both told you was bull) nor that you have to tell someone you are a bb before fighting (which is bull too)

I think you (or myself) is misunderstanding the subject of having the hands/feet considered LETHAL weapons. *I* am saying (I can't speak for John) that since YOU said that the Hands/Feet were Lethal Weapons and needed to be registered as such...that you should prove this as I have posted facts otherwise. What you just posted here was saying that the feet/hands can be concidered a deadly weapon if they beat someone to death. A PILLOW can be used as a deadly weapon via suffercation. What you stated before and what you are discussing/trying to "prove" now are two TOTALLY seperate issues.

But remember one thing about website definitions...they are just that. Websites

[This message has been edited by Uriel (edited 05-07-2004).]
[/QUOTE]

Uriel in your response, okay regarding registering, in my previous posts I typed in parathesis that those that are martial artist should look into their local law so that they are knowledgeable of what is considered justifiable self defense. So registering at their local police station, I never said that nor did I say that registering your hands or feet as a lethal weapon either. I said by law, especially in Virginia a person can be considered as a lethal weapon or deadly.

i.e., D. Deadly force is most often defined as using a deadly weapon (see section V, Malice), but hands and fists can be deadly weapons when they are repeatedly used against an unresisting or incapacitated person.

That proves my point regarding the fact we are considered lethal or deadly weapons if we abused the situation at hand.

I did not bring up registering JohnL did, please look at his post above


posted 05-03-2004 08:25 AM You do not need to tell any perp that you are a blackbelt, nor do you have to register your hands/feet as lethal weapons.

You're talking total garbage.

JohnL

Secondly, regarding telling your perp that you know martial arts. That is questionable, I agree, I even brought this debative issue to my friend Mr. Kaufman. Although, he did mention, by avoiding the situation and volunteering information as that may play both ways (personally which I never thought) good and or bad, it may even get you out of the predicament. My brother had an incident in which he was close to defending himself when he had mention to a person that he knew martial arts, at that time, who would of known, but, the guy withdrew. So, to correct my self, do you need to say that you are a black belt, I am WRONG, i admit that, would it help, that is a personal preference. Have I proven that you have to mention that you are a black belt, no, but it has helped out people in the court system here in Virginia.

So all in all, yes I am partially wrong in regards to YOU HAVE TO TELL A PERP YOU ARE A BLACK BELT, its the law. Local law districts may vary, so I can only speak for the state of Virginia.

Now regarding registering your hands, I never brought that issue up, John did so if you want to bash someone do so to him. I did say that your hands are letal and feet are, and yes the law agrees as well. Yes, if a pillow can be use to kill someone, then as considered by law a lethal weapon.

So now that I have proved myself partially, you can now get off my back and stop bashing myself and or other people. This forum is about learning from each other, as I did with you. So be mature and admit that their was some miscommunication from either your part or even Johns.

And stop calling people kid or child or rudely offend people. What you posted was reasonable and acceptable. I learned and only posted what facts I had, and accepted what faults I made.
Posted by: Uriel

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 05/07/04 09:56 AM

Ah you see John's post came directly from questioning your own post.

TKD Info, you are getting "better" but you still need to stop and read things...as we all do.

If one of us says "I cannot believe you just said such and such" and you don't think you said it then STATE it in another post. Don't try to jump on us for mis-reading (or maybe we did read it correctly) the posts INTENT.

[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 05/18/04 12:07 PM

Hey I was not a member at the time ya'll were discussing this but i had to weigh in on this topic even if it is late. I did not have time to do the sign up b/c I was at work (teaching tkd in a junior high school) but I have been in the ATA for 13 years and doing tkd for 15 and would like to say it is no joke-and is not a McDojang. At least not where I was taught or at the school I help run.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Applepie:
Why is ATA so bad? My instructor has kept people at their belts if they weren't ready, and has even taken them away when students were disrespectful. [/QUOTE]
Posted by: Uriel

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 05/18/04 07:41 PM

I am glad you found what you were looking for in the ATA.

:: wonders who else thinks I must be severely medicated right now ::
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 05/19/04 06:21 AM

I emailed Mr. Kaufman about the notifying a perp. issue, and he flat out told me it was an urban myth he first heared about back in 1965. Anyway, I hope that settles that issue :P I knew it certainly wasn't true here in Ohio... just not practical anyway. If you have time to have a conversation with your attacker, you probably have a chance to avoid the fight entirely, in my opinion.

[This message has been edited by Baji Brad (edited 05-19-2004).]
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 05/19/04 01:06 PM

To Uriel- I was wondering what your back ground is as far as which styles and what branch of those styles you have studied and what your experience with the ATA is. Did you train there or is it just heresay. I hear you saying you are retired in other posts so I assume you have quite a bit of experience.

To Baji Brad- who is Mr. Kaufman
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Uriel:
I am glad you found what you were looking for in the ATA.

:: wonders who else thinks I must be severely medicated right now ::
[/QUOTE]
Posted by: WADO

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 05/19/04 04:26 PM

I'm not sure what the ATA is but I am trying to research it I hope I don't find that guy Stephen Oliver behind it.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 05/19/04 04:26 PM

TKD info's post: [QUOTE],My friend is a Martial Arts Lawyer, please check his website out [URL=http://karatelaw.com/martialarts.html[/QUOTE]

[This message has been edited by Baji Brad (edited 05-19-2004).]
Posted by: Uriel

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 05/19/04 04:49 PM

Have I TRAINED under the ATA system? God no. Have I SEEN products of the ATA System? Yes. Have I been invited to instruct for ATA? Yes. Have I been invited to put my NAME to an ATA school? Yes.

Would I ever? Hell no.

I've been around long enough to know a mcdojo and baby, ATA takes the cake and the pie too.

For the ATA's point of view their website is:
http://www.ataonline.com/index.asp

Here are a few ATA things...

A) GUARANTEED BLACKBELT
B) Kids getting MULTIPLE DANS
C) Their techniques, from what I have experienced, are poor..at best.
D) Their Insturctors are not usually the person on the marquee but rather people he gets to teach
E) It is a healthclub mentality (read as contract)
F) Their "NATIONAL CHAMPIONS" are only champions because the ATA has a CLOSED nationals available ONLY to them.
G) Their forms are COPYRIGHTED to prevent anyone else doing them in competitions.
H) Only ATA Uniforms maybe used...

hmmmmm

Sounds like a money making scam to me.

I could go on, but I won't. I've given the sons of a bi... far too much of my time discussing the wonders of the ATA.

But seriously, they are great at one thing.

A Day Care Center.

If you find ATA to be your liking, then do the ATA.

There are two sides to every story and that is just my small view on the ATA, I am sure the ATA has another side.

Shortly put though, these are the guys that 1st Round KO sees as "taekwondo" people and judges the art as thus. McDojos...

[This message has been edited by Uriel (edited 05-19-2004).]
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 01/14/05 08:08 PM

Handing out Black Belts? THats an insult not only to the student, its an insult to my country. My Name is jin sung and i am from korea. my grandfather instructs a style of tae kwon do that has been around since the ancient silla dynasty. Tae Kwon do unified my country, my people, and my heritage. Even rumors of such things are horrible. before this i had never heard of purchased black belts. if thats what is happening at this ATA school then the answer is simple. IT IS BAD!!!
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 01/15/05 11:54 PM

Hi Jinsung,

I think ATA had a great beginning from Korea until about 1983, then the founders of the school ran into some very great US Market People and copyrighted all the poomesae and voila...that's what we have here today at the ATA-a McDojo.

Now there are very great instructors and Olympic Style fighters in this school but they are far and few between unfortunately.

This is a place to learn some confidence while playing other sports, provide some daycare and a very nice alternative to Cardio -Kickboxing...which is the godawful most boring way to workout since the treadmill.

ATA as a Martial Art school? .......to be determined. Martial Sport is closer to it all-overall.

McDojo? Yes. But then, I saw alot of nice things this McDojo did for alot of families so I'm not totally against it. But no; I wouldn't either consider it remotely close to a bonafied martial art school either.

but, it may work for you because we are all individuals and I cannot say what is good for one or another.

I liked it but liked my Hung Gar Kung Fu training better, for I paid whenever I wanted to monthly for my dues and my instructor was from Hong Kong and knew what was important and what was not. Trophies? fah. At ATA trophies are everything but not in the Hung Gar Kung Fu School. It's "learn as much as you can and pass it all down". Being ex military, I relate to that.

Overall? EVERY martial art is good in my book-just find the one that fits you like that very favorite pair of jeans. ATA works for alot of people so I'll never diss it. I got my ass handed to me a couple times thier too in some fights so their are some good fighters in the school too.

In summary; Just Do It. -and ENJOY. It's all good.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 01/16/05 09:43 AM

What is ATA, and how do you know if you are attending an ATA McDojo?
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 01/16/05 09:37 PM

Isn't this typical. We start off with a general discussion and end up with a bitch slapping contest between TKDinfo, JohnL, and Uriel. Could you possibly post reply's that are on subject and do not degrade someon elses opinion with name calling or other such language.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but they can be expressed in a civilised manner. I'm just sick of reading the cras language.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 01/16/05 10:19 PM

The ATA is not bad. Granted, there may be bad Masters. I personally feel that the ATA has made TKD more of a sport and less of a way of life, but come to think of it, so has the WTF and the ITF. Just remember, the essance of TKD lies within philosophy and good people. Individual Master's make TKD good or bad by thier influence on thier students.

[This message has been edited by MasterTravis (edited 01-16-2005).]
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 01/16/05 10:24 PM

Couldn't agree more Master Travis. I hate it when talking about TKD that other martial artists degrade it by saying that it is more of a sport than a proper MA. TKD is a proper MA and in its full is a way of life which can be used to benefit a persons well being.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 01/18/05 07:30 PM

drp2345,

ATA stands for American Taekwondo Association, founded in 1968 by the Lee Brothers (Haeung Un Lee being the primariy eldest and Grand Master-now deceased)along with Soon Ho Lee (now the Grandmaster)Inn Ho and Gyun Kun; who came to the US who now run the Association from Arkansas today.

The school and style was once called Songham (which was taught in parts of Korea before coming to the US in 1974). Then it became the American Taekwondo Association of today.

Songham or "Traditional Taekwondo" as they call it in the ATA is still the style taught today.

It's a form heavy curriculum(70% or so, 15% sparring and 15% self defense).

I believe Songham Taekwondo (according to the manuals) may have once been a really strict, hard ass, 5 belt-2 year conditioning course to reach bb in KOREA, THEN you were supposed to become a STUDENT and learn the good stuff in the Dan Ranks.

But then the Lees came to America and ran into some "Schlikmiester Marketing Mavens" and were taught the ways of the 'Grandmaster Dollar' and added 6 plus more belts to the Black Belt curriculum (in 1983) along with some neat videos and books (additionally priced as well) developing what many schools today would be called the Black Belt Academy.

You can still train hard and lose some weight and have some fun with others at ATA. That's ok.

But in most ATA schools, you have to almost pee on the Senior Instructors desk to fail the belt tests (ok, the jr. Color Belts I guess would be more accurate-black belts a little tougher to pass-I saw them fail a couple times in testing).

Like I wrote earlier, this school is good to help you out in other sports that require some balance, hand eye and a little disclipline. It gives the tykes a little confidence too whom are normally withdrawn and shy. I think that modern problem of ADD can be even remedied by places like ATA and Martial Arts in general. and that is nice.

But compared to an old fashioned full contact Kung Fu class (if you are talking traditional, mind you) this may not work for you.

My Kung Fu class did not require a contract and you paid when you could and trained with the "grandmaster" but has you only call him by first name even though he was triple the age of any instructor at ATA whom I called "sir" or "mister/ms".

I believe the Lees had true and emotional ties to General Choi (the recogonized founder of Modern TKD) before going McDojo. I enjoyed talking to them on occasion. I favor Koreans in general for I have dozens of friends in Korea from my days in the service so this is not a slam at TKD nor Koreans whatsover.

In fact, the YMCA in Philadelphia PA has a really nice TKD School in the style of Chung Do Kwan. Very informal but really nice school that stresses more self defense and GOOD HURTING STANCES AND STRETCHES. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

These guys let you train in a T-Shirt and sweats (only the belt marks your "level") and you will be marked up/bruised after a class, but they are good folks. However, the Korean Grandmaster is long gone unfortunately (also deceased).

ATA requires 1 to 2 year contracts and you see the "grandmaster" once every 2 years.

No contracts at all with Hung Gar Kung Fu in Buffalo NY.

Its all about choice as always. People enjoy the formality, rank and file of ATA (it IS very organized).

But I like getting past all that and having someone just really teach me how to stretch, kick and punch with endurance, energy and balance without any of the other malarky.

That's just me. Again, there are olympic style fighters in the ATA and not everybody is pudgy and wind bagged like the myths would believe.

Just a matter of choice is all....

I hope this gives you more idea about ATA-American Taekwondo Association, drp2345

Good luck to you and all your training endeavors.

B-2
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 01/22/05 06:50 PM

It all comes down to what you are looking for. If you are looking to train in an informal atmosphere that stresses hard workouts and repetition for fighting then a king fu school in a rec center or someplace similar may be for you. You want that traditional, gritty atmoshpere and that's fine.

The ATA is mainly a place for parents and kids to train together in a clean, organized, professional, and fun atmosphere that teaches traditional Taekwondo techniques and more. There are olympic fighting programs and intense adult-only workouts if that is what you want, but if you don't want that you don't have to have it. Grandmaster H.U. Lee's vision was to bring his art to the masses in a place that allows anyone who wants the benefits of martial arts to participate. So if that means making things more organized, and less brutal then that is valid.

Grandmaster Haeng Ung Lee learned the first 16 traditional Cheon-jee forms from General Choi in 1968. He was teaching Taekwondo-japanese mixed martial arts in Korea before that. Grandmaster H.U. Lee started training in martial arts in 1954 as a teenager. He taught martial arts to Republic of Korea military intelligence from 1956 to 1959 then opened a school in Osan, Korea after leaving the military. He opened a few "branches" of this school, one of which at a U.S. Air Force base in Korea. He met a man named Richard Reed who was his student and who brought him to the U.S. in 1962 on a "visitor visa". They started plans for a national TKD organization, and when he came back to Omaha, Nebraska in 1965 he started a regional organization which would eventually grow into an international one. The Songahm Taekwondo forms were not developed until 1983 and have been taught in ATA schools since.

That's a brief synopsis of how the organization started. It was his vision to start the most professional martial arts organization possible. The ATA was the first to keep computerized records of all students and testings, publish it's own organization magazine, as well as many other accomplishments.

All of this would be seen very positively or negatively depending on your philosophies on martial arts.

-Tom
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 01/26/05 01:50 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Applepie:
Why is ATA so bad? My instructor has kept people at their belts if they weren't ready, and has even taken them away when students were disrespectful. [/QUOTE]


ATA SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I HAVE GONE TO ABOUT 6 TO 8 SCHOOLS THAT ARE ATA AND THEY ALL SUCKED!! BIG TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 01/27/05 04:55 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Uriel:
Yes, the ATA is the McDojang of McDojangs (in general). Your style is a franchise and nothing more. Your "national" champions are champions only because they don't invite other organizations to join. Even then your sparring is just tag.

MOST ATA schools have a guarunteed black belt program.

MOST of them are great for one thing...

Babysitting.

With that all said remember the #1 rule...JUST HAVE FUN
[/QUOTE]

I have been in the ATA for over 3 years and I am a trainee instructor almost a full instructor. Sadly I agree with you. But let me also tell you, I would have NEVER stayed with the ATA if my instructor was just handing out belts. I came to TKD looking for a real challenge and to find out what I am TRULY made of. and I got just that. No gimmick, no extra money for my 2nd degree Belt, just hard work. Most of the Florida schools are owned by one master and he is a busniess man before he is a master. ATA has a bad rep, but MY school is great. My head Instructor is honest and a true leader.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 01/27/05 08:17 PM

ok hows this. i just came from an awards banquet where we discussed with our students how the ATA esq schools were popularizing but basically bastardizing tkd. I think it unfair to make blanket statements about any style or sect, but some of my best opponents have been from the ata. its like asking is ata or ustf better. or is karate or kung fu better. its not better unless YOU have a preference.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 01/31/05 07:06 PM

The ATA was my first organized training in Martial Arts while I was in the military. I enjoyed it for what it was, a workout and a social event. I trained for about six months, earning my green belt. At the rate I was testing, I would have made Black in about two years. It was a friendly place that seemed to have side programs for everything including pressure points, sticks, nunchuks, etc.

As far as MA training? I don't know how much worse it could get. No contact or light contact sparring, really unrealistic self defense techniques, 8 year old black belts were common and they thought they were legit badasses.

They have their own Nationals and World Championships, certify their instructors to teach weapons and groundfighting after minimal seminar training themselves and seem to jump on whatever the latest MA trend is.

When I didn't know any better, it wasn't so bad. Now? Ooooooooo boy. Kind of like a bad haircut you had in the 3rd grade.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 02/04/05 12:18 AM

In some places, you can get double charged if you fight and you are a martial artist or have a black belt. I had to register according to my country's law.

But who will be so stupid as to go around telling ppl that u learn martial art and beat him up, ending yourself in the jail? And beat him up and go. don't let him know your name!!!
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 02/06/05 03:17 PM

Hello,

This message is not a pun towards ATA or any other style. As a matter of fact, I used to study with the ATA when I was a child. I really miss being in martial arts, particularly Tae Kwon Do, because I love the techniques. I've been trying to find a TKD school here in Georgia that does not go by contracts, just month-to-month payments. Lately, however, it's been hard to keep practicing because of looking for a full-time job. I've been thinking about starting up karate, but I'm still drawn to TKD. Does anyone have any suggestions that might be helpful?
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 02/08/05 06:59 PM

i think some people may have a misconception. the ATA is not a style or a school, it is jest another organization that schools have to pay dues towards in order to compete at there competitions. the maintain very low standards. now dont get me wrong, there are some tremendous martial artists in the ata, but they are so big, that it is really watered down.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 02/19/05 04:34 PM

Want to hear my amazing Punk Rock analogy?

Once, awhile back in England and such, a bunch of young adults got very, very pissed off with life and began to write incredibly angry lyrics and develop an equally angry fanbase that followed around these new "Punk Rock" bands all throughout the underground very devotedly. To these punk rockers, it wasn't about selling albums and concert tickets to make the monies, it was about Saying "F YOU" to life and it was Lifestyle! A Religion! A Fix!

Then in America, Good Charlotte came out, and all of a sudden, adorable pre-teen suburbibitches started going to Hot Topic and dressing in pink and black and flipping old women the bird and thinking they were the best there ever was.

Long, completley ridiculous analogy short:

ATA and Sum 41 **** and you should avoid them.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 03/06/05 08:20 AM

B-2,
I suggest two things for you to try, first go to ATAonline.com to get the actual history of the ATA and Songahm Taekwondo because yours is a little off. Second, you need to learn a little bit more about what Martial Arts is all about. It is not just about the HARD Training and the fighting, there is a huge mental side to the martial arts that it appears you are sadly missing. I am a martial arts instructor and I have studied the martial arts in a variety of forms and styles for over 30 years. Martial Arts is like any other subject, the decision of better or worse is completely subjective. It all comes down to what works for you. Any martial arts school that is able to provide training and solve issues for their clients and make money at it is successful. The problem with martial arts schools of the past, present and future is that they have to make money in order to continue to exist. The ATA has merely found ways to do that while sustaining a somewhat standardized style and system. The advantage to the ATA is that you can go to almost any ATA school and receive same core curriculum. The ATA has just provided the public that is so mobile now a days with a system of schools across the world that provides a solid system of martial arts training. I also suggest that you perhaps should try another ATA school and hopefully you will better results. I am not saying that the ATA is perfect, no style or school is but they are continually changing to make improvements to meet the needs and/or wants of their clients. I hope that at least some of this sinks in for you and that you continue your martial arts training, good luck in all that you do.

signed,

a 5th degree black belt instructor
[QUOTE]Originally posted by B-2:
drp2345,

ATA stands for American Taekwondo Association, founded in 1968 by the Lee Brothers (Haeung Un Lee being the primariy eldest and Grand Master-now deceased)along with Soon Ho Lee (now the Grandmaster)Inn Ho and Gyun Kun; who came to the US who now run the Association from Arkansas today.

The school and style was once called Songham (which was taught in parts of Korea before coming to the US in 1974). Then it became the American Taekwondo Association of today.

Songham or "Traditional Taekwondo" as they call it in the ATA is still the style taught today.

It's a form heavy curriculum(70% or so, 15% sparring and 15% self defense).

I believe Songham Taekwondo (according to the manuals) may have once been a really strict, hard ass, 5 belt-2 year conditioning course to reach bb in KOREA, THEN you were supposed to become a STUDENT and learn the good stuff in the Dan Ranks.

But then the Lees came to America and ran into some "Schlikmiester Marketing Mavens" and were taught the ways of the 'Grandmaster Dollar' and added 6 plus more belts to the Black Belt curriculum (in 1983) along with some neat videos and books (additionally priced as well) developing what many schools today would be called the Black Belt Academy.

You can still train hard and lose some weight and have some fun with others at ATA. That's ok.

But in most ATA schools, you have to almost pee on the Senior Instructors desk to fail the belt tests (ok, the jr. Color Belts I guess would be more accurate-black belts a little tougher to pass-I saw them fail a couple times in testing).

Like I wrote earlier, this school is good to help you out in other sports that require some balance, hand eye and a little disclipline. It gives the tykes a little confidence too whom are normally withdrawn and shy. I think that modern problem of ADD can be even remedied by places like ATA and Martial Arts in general. and that is nice.

But compared to an old fashioned full contact Kung Fu class (if you are talking traditional, mind you) this may not work for you.

My Kung Fu class did not require a contract and you paid when you could and trained with the "grandmaster" but has you only call him by first name even though he was triple the age of any instructor at ATA whom I called "sir" or "mister/ms".

I believe the Lees had true and emotional ties to General Choi (the recogonized founder of Modern TKD) before going McDojo. I enjoyed talking to them on occasion. I favor Koreans in general for I have dozens of friends in Korea from my days in the service so this is not a slam at TKD nor Koreans whatsover.

In fact, the YMCA in Philadelphia PA has a really nice TKD School in the style of Chung Do Kwan. Very informal but really nice school that stresses more self defense and GOOD HURTING STANCES AND STRETCHES. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

These guys let you train in a T-Shirt and sweats (only the belt marks your "level") and you will be marked up/bruised after a class, but they are good folks. However, the Korean Grandmaster is long gone unfortunately (also deceased).

ATA requires 1 to 2 year contracts and you see the "grandmaster" once every 2 years.

No contracts at all with Hung Gar Kung Fu in Buffalo NY.

Its all about choice as always. People enjoy the formality, rank and file of ATA (it IS very organized).

But I like getting past all that and having someone just really teach me how to stretch, kick and punch with endurance, energy and balance without any of the other malarky.

That's just me. Again, there are olympic style fighters in the ATA and not everybody is pudgy and wind bagged like the myths would believe.

Just a matter of choice is all....

I hope this gives you more idea about ATA-American Taekwondo Association, drp2345

Good luck to you and all your training endeavors.

B-2



[/QUOTE]
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 03/06/05 03:39 PM

(all my experiances regaurding ATA practitioners has given me a biased viewpoint, but its good to be devil's advocate every once in awhile)

I'm not going to get caught up in the innitial argument, but though the ATA in general has a bad rep doesn't necessarily mean there aren't schools worth training in. Sometimes the instructor matters as much as the affiliation. According to stereotype, WTF is supposed to produce strictly sport oriented fighters who throw mass amounts of arc kicks, and keep no guard. However, my school is affiliated with Kukkiwon, but our Grandmaster actually frowns on the sport aspect of olympic TKD, and instead prefers to train as practically as possible, even allowing us to use takedowns and almost any other Hapkido techniques in our free sparring. Everyone is taught to keep their guard up or get kicked/punched in the head, and we have an equal ammount of attention dedicated to forms as well as sparring. Black Belts are permitted to fight anyway they see fit once having earned that level (for instance, my fellow BB's and I have trained in boxing, I'm currently training in JJ, and so long as we keep a degree of control, we are allowed to intigrate).

So stereotypes aren't always that accurate. I've heard from many in my school that its do to a standard of respect and status that we're connected to kukkiwon, for the most part.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 03/07/05 10:42 AM

I've been with a small ATA school as an adult for about 3 years and have seen many people "no-change" in rank (children and adults) and, even more common, held back or asked not to test.

With 100% certainty I can say, at least at my school:

NOBODY is guaranteed a belt of ANY rank except white.

I've been bloodied...I've also knocked people out.... sparring is "point-break" but it IS full contact.

I've worked at other schools and I find the ATA forms more demanding than most. Self defense is about average....some good, some not-so-good. It's all Hapkido.
I've also found (while sparring olympic style and Muay Thai at other schools)that my training is good enough to hang with, and beat same-rank guys...even when sparring on "their turf" in their style.


In fact, the only "negative" on this board that seems acurate to me is that the ATA ground fighting is poor. It's TKD... if you want to learn ground fighting you should take BJJ.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 03/19/05 06:48 PM

I’m an instructor in an ATA school. We don’t teach people how to beat people up. Or how to take 4 guys on in an alley. We teach confidence, respect, and discipline. We teach people how to handle situations physically, and mentally. I know my school at least isn’t as hardcore as alot of schools out there. I’ve checked out alot about 5 schools when looking for a place to train and the ATA was on only one that taught more then just fighting. And as an instructor now, I see how other schools are run and still haven’t seen a better one then mine. I go to competitions and see how other students act compared to mine, with there respect towards me and the judges and there parents, there is such a gap in the other students training. The great thing about the ATA is that there are so many schools, when one school comes with a good idea that works such as a new way of teaching all the other schools hear about it and are able to implement it.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 03/28/05 07:28 PM

I’m an instructor in an ATA school.

I wouldn't advertise this. Maybe you couldn't tell people hate you?

We don’t teach people how to beat people up. Or how to take 4 guys on in an alley.

What do you teach people? How to frolic in fields and make bitchin' strawberry coconut cupcakes?

We teach confidence, respect, and discipline.

Oh. Right.

Confidence. You mean arrogance? Confidence means believing you are going to win at a tournament and then winning. Arrogance is believing you're going to win at a tournament and then losing to some WTF kids and then saying they aren't disciplined or respectful.

We teach people how to handle situations physically, and mentally.

Except if those situations are fighting someone else or defending yourself.

I know my school at least isn’t as hardcore as alot of schools out there.

You could put it that way.

I’ve checked out alot about 5 schools when looking for a place to train and the ATA was on only one that taught more then just fighting.

They also teach you everything you need to know to get your accredited daycare license!

And as an instructor now, I see how other schools are run and still haven’t seen a better one then mine.

Because your opinion is completely unbiased.

I go to competitions and see how other students act compared to mine, with there respect towards me and the judges and there parents, there is such a gap in the other students training.

What? Are we disrespectful? The only disrespectful thing against Tae Kwon Do is the ATA and excuse us me if I hate all of you people cluttering up my tournaments and my martial art with their soccer mom, give me more money, better than thou attitudes.

The great thing about the ATA is that there are so many schools

You just hit the nail on the head. Want some fries with your belt?

when one school comes with a good idea that works such as a new way of teaching all the other schools hear about it and are able to implement it

A good idea? You have to be joking me or you're kidding yourself.

[This message has been edited by Hannah (edited 03-28-2005).]
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 03/31/05 08:02 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hannah:


What? Are we disrespectful? The only disrespectful thing against Tae Kwon Do is the ATA and excuse us me if I hate all of you people cluttering up my tournaments and my martial art with their soccer mom, give me more money, better than thou attitudes.

"The great thing about the ATA is that there are so many schools"

You just hit the nail on the head. Want some fries with your belt?

"when one school comes with a good idea that works such as a new way of teaching all the other schools hear about it and are able to implement it"

A good idea? You have to be joking me or you're kidding yourself.

[This message has been edited by Hannah (edited 03-28-2005).]
[/QUOTE]

You know its funny how fast things can change. In my first post in this thread i was a devout follower of the ATA. I was also on my may to becoming an instructor, now only a month or so later have I removed myself from the ATA and I am much happier. I wouldnt be quite as upfront as Hanna was but to be honest. the ATA will destroy you. what I mean is, I was being given a false sense of security. I was a second degree black belt and I had a gut and pretty much NO muscle definition or endurance. Sure I had improved from when I first walked in to the school, but there was more improving that needed to be done and the ATA could not get me there. MY instructor had a pot belly and was in worse shape than me. Everyone was kind and MY ATA school did teach good morals and values, and YES you need those if you ever want to be a martial artist, w/o morals you are just a fighter and you wont get MY respect. Take it from a former student, the ATA is false hope commercialized and sold in mass.

edit: Even if the instruction at an ATA school is great, the ATA structure still has you paying alot of money each month for various things. In one month I had spent almost $400 on midterms, monthly dues, and testings. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif[/IMG]



[This message has been edited by Mr. Lawrence (edited 03-31-2005).]
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 03/31/05 05:24 PM

i agree with some thigns said here.. others, i am highly offended. the attack by hannah was completely inappropriate and uncalled for. and while yes, i do pay a lot of money, the ATA academy where i train (yes, train) now is the best tkd education i've ever gotten. i know it has a bad reputation, but i am fortunate enough to have an instructor who breaks the mold and really does care about something other than the contracts, sales, and all that stuff. for me, at least, this is no mcdojo, it is a real, good, sturdy foundation, and a great place to learn. i've had instructors who were mean, loud, obnoxious, even abusive. i've had ones who had no knowledge whatsoever over what they were supposed to be teaching. at the ATA, my instructor will refuse to let someone test unless he is 100 percent sure they are ready, and they will succeed. if they do not know the material, if they do not show discipline, respect, and all the things that make this art great, they are not allowed to test until they do so. i will admit that i've questioned whether or not it is all for the money, but any instructor who will come with a handful of students to the local gym/gymnastics academy after teaching classes all day, and spend two hours there with them, asking nothing in return, thats my idea of a person who really has his priorities straight.
so hannah, if you wish to tear me apart and verbally attack me as you did the other ata person, by all means go ahead. for the only thing that shows is your weakness and quickness to temper.
as a matter of fact, i feel sorry that you are so quick to do something like that to someone who simply posted his opinion and feelings for his school.
it's simply a disgusting thing to do.
might i also add that i am in perfect physical condition, as are many of the other students at my school. this is simply because i personaly have the initiative to keep my body in the shape that it is. i dont expect to go to any martial arts school and come out with any huge gains in muscle definition or weight loss. it takes some initiative and work on your part, outside of the school.

[This message has been edited by deadlyhands123 (edited 03-31-2005).]
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 03/31/05 09:41 PM

As an ATA member, I'd have to say that the organization is a little too money hungery for my liking, but if you have the right instructor, the training is good. and the forms are very balenced as far as working both sides of the body
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 04/06/05 02:57 PM

Well, hello everyone, I'm here to defend the ATA so I'll just get to the point.
First of all I have to say that I'm 18yo and I've been training in the ATA(STF in my country, Argentina) for 8 years now, I'm a 1st degree blackbelt and I've been to many open tournaments(the ones in wich any martial artist can get in). I have lost just one time in those tournaments, so you can't say ATA sucks against any other TKD or martial art. The reason ATA makes it's own championships is that our rules are different than yours. Inviting other martial artists to our championships would result in ATA students winning most of the fight, the reason is simple, it's not because ATA is BETTER than any other style, it's just that the point and stop thing makes it much more easier for us to score, cause we're used to that fighting system(that doesn't mean we don't train continuous sparring, we do, a lot). And also, we use a kick that's not allowed in your championships or tournaments, wich happens to be the most practiced kick in ATA...
ATA techniques are as effective as any other martial art, what happens here is that bad martial artists blame the style instead of blaming themselves for not training hard enough. I must add that we even train stuff other TKD styles don't.
I wouldn't call the ATA a commercial TKD, but I must admit it's more expensive than others, this is because ATA is much more organized. Here in my city, there are many Karate, Taekwondo ITF/WTF, Kung Fu, etc instructors that aren't even instructors, they Increase their black belt degrees by themselves, that will never happen in the ATA, I assure you.
Most of you say the guaranteed black belt means that you're gonna get a blackbelt if you pay, even if you **** . Well, that's not true in most schools, there are many ATA instructors in this area, and just one uses that system, the others(including my instructors) won't let you take the tests if you're not ready, It's a matter of honor, no instructor would like to have the worst blackbelts would they?.
To sum up, ATA is the most organized TKD style ever, and that costs money, but calling an ATA gym a mcdojang is really offensive and not true at all.
I have some videos using my nunchakus(saang jeol bong) if you want to see them(I learnt how to use weapons on the blackbelt program, and no, I didn't pay more), just email me, I can make some videos kicking if you ask me too.
Please hannah, son't be so disrespectful and always remember that it's not good to generalize.
Posted by: Spin_Hook

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 07/11/05 02:25 AM

I guess my question would have to be, "does it really matter what people think if you ARE a genuine martial artist." People are always going to talk and downgrade. It should be pretty easy to tell if your school is a McDojang.

I usually just judge each club individually based on the skills of its members. Reputable martial artists = reputable club.
Posted by: ziggytkd

Re: Why is ATA so bad? - 07/11/05 05:49 PM

As a black belt in the ATA, I have to say that the material it teaches isn't bad in my opinion. However the ATA does seem to be more money oriented than it should be. I was blessed with having an instructor that teaches more than just the given ciriculum, and cares more about teaching than the money. Also there seems to be a division in the ATA between those of us that want real training vs those that want to make a buck. And on the topic of tournaments the ATA is more family orietned than competitive. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Its not the material that makes it a mcdojo, its the instructor teaching it.