Club and Art Loyalty - Tradition or Business

In my club, it is required that you are loyal. This basically seems to mean that you should not train with any other club (as a student) or any other Martial Art (while learning TKD). Do you think this has come about by age old tradition and respect, but now is a good way to keep your money flowing into this particular club? What is everyone's opinion?

yasha hime

I have joined a MA school, not a cult.I may respect my instructors opinion and advice but I have not given up my free will or ability to make decisions for myself.
If I choose to study another art, I may ask his opinion about which art would be good,may listen to him if he advises I might need stronger background in original art before learning another. Would never allow him to tell me I cannot study anything else or crosstrain with others.

Good points Neko, thanks for your reply.

Chiding me for cross training my Japanese Instructor once said to me "you should only have one master" and I replied "I have..... me.... and I'll train where I choose!"

Instuctors that demand loyalty are obviously either very insecure or control freaks. I train where and with whom I choose.

I have had students ask advice about cross training. If I think it will be good for them I say so. If I think not, I say so and say why and then leave the decision to them. It has never caused a problem.
Sharon

i use this forum to gain insight into other arts, and my master is well aware that i am looking. he encourages it, because he wants me to grow as a martial artist. there is nothing disloyal in that.

my last tkd instructor was very wary of me going to another class as i think he would be worried that i would leave tkd for it. (wasn't the most exciting class 2b honest). The new class i am in state in their rules that as long as you don't disrespect tkd then you are ok.

If you consider that there are 3 fighting ranges, punching, grappling and kicking, normally 1 art doesn't cover all three in depth so it is necessary to cross train.

I study tkd so that covers my kicking range (hardly and grappling) with a little punching. And also jkd which works more punching and grappling than kicking. So for me it is necessary that my tkd club would understand this.

I think you will find that it is in the more tradional martial arts that this is a problem. However it is not for the tradionalist's reason. Let me explain. In past times, the one master etc would have been the statement (as bossman stated was his Sensei's opinion). Nowadays i find think that this wouldn't be as accepted by students. I think that some instructors (definately the mcDojo ones) would forbid students from cross training because they might lose their custom. Totally unfair and unacceptable.

I'm not saying all instructors are like this though.

Respect and loyalty is a two-way street - it is earned, not demanded.

Since my sabumnim was studied and participated in several martial arts in his youth, he generally encourages everyone who has reached 1st Dan to branch out and expand on what we learn. Occasionally, he will teach material outside the realm of traditional taekwondo (such as haedong-gumdo, wrestling, boxing, hapkido) and mix it in with 'the usual stuff'.

This also keeps everyone very interested and it really challenges everyone to learn things that are completely new. I think this helps us understand that TKD is not the "best" or "worst" or "only good" (etc etc..) martial art, and that it is just that, a martial art - and it is just one of many ways that explify the culture and study of martial arts.

I am currently practicing Kung Fu and I would love to study other Arts. But I think I want to concentrate more on Kung Fu before I start learning anything else! I am quite interested in Wushu, Aikido, Judo, maybe some more Kung Fu styles such as Wing chun which fascinates me.
My instructor has practice many diffrent styles himself so I guess he has no problem with us learning other Styles! If you look at other styles you will notice similar techniques, but maybe different approaches to how they're taught.

whats this master crap, i call no man master.i will say mister but not master,i dont care if others call 5th degree dan master but i will call no man master and im white.but having said that dont stay with anyclub that tells u where you can or cannot train its your life your money your choice period.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by badmamajama:
whats this master crap, i call no man master.i will say mister but not master,i dont care if others call 5th degree dan master but i will call no man master and im white.
but having said that dont stay with anyclub that tells u where you can or cannot train its your life your money your choice period.[/QUOTE]

In regards to the first part of your statement, I'll assume you are young and haven't grasped the meaning of respect. Yet.

As to the second part of your statement, I think most would agree.

You should look at something different.

Heck, I train with my 12 year old son. We do Wado. Last week he told me that he really liked karate, but wanted to do Judo once a week to learn some throws.

If a kid can figure it out...

Thank you for your comments. However, your last comment about a kid figuring it out is disappointing to say the least. Considering I asked for everyone's opinion, initiating a discussion, that type of thing. I wasn't asking for advice on how to figure it out, sorry if you misunderstood. I'm glad your kid has 'figured it out' though.

[This message has been edited by yasha hime (edited 05-16-2004).]

It both tradition and your Sensei doesn't want to loose you since that is his income.
I would train what ever school that you want, but out of respect you shouldn't talk about the other style or classes in your dojo.

When a martial arts school is run as a buisness, I think it's a bit unreasonable for a teacher demand that kind of loyalty of people before they even really know him/her.

Thank you all for your opinions. All excellent comments. I tend to agree that you must allow yourself to be free to choose what you want to do (it's your life and your money), but also show respect by not talking about the other art or classes while in your dojang.

[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

If a student feels qualified enough to judge his style of martial arts is lacking or insufficient r need to cross-train, then he should also realized that he should no longer continue train in that art.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 0goun:
If a student feels qualified enough to judge his style of martial arts is lacking or insufficient r need to cross-train, then he should also realized that he should no longer continue train in that art.[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, most students feel they are qualified to judge their style and instructor when they're nowhere near.

They leave, join anothet school and do the same.

Eventually they learn nothing and think they know everything.

JohnL

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JohnL:
Unfortunately, most students feel they are qualified to judge their style and instructor when they're nowhere near.

They leave, join anothet school and do the same.

Eventually they learn nothing and think they know everything.

JohnL[/QUOTE]

JohnL,
I agree with you totally.

For those that believe cross-training is essential, what do you do if or when a principle/technique of one style conflicts with the other? How do you determine the correct one?

I believe most teachers require loyalty to avaoid those conflicts? Initially, as a junior student you are not qualified enough to resolve those conflicts, because you would not have enough understanding of either art to resolve that conflict.