I want to just clear this up with everyone about kicks in TKD.

Posted by: Tkdstreetfighter88

I want to just clear this up with everyone about kicks in TKD. - 06/19/03 08:28 PM

I have already posted this in the tkd or jujitsu topic but i would like to put it out there because it is very important and everyone seems to be putting TKD with high kicks. I didnt post this in the why does tkd have high kicks section because i doubt anyone goes into that one anymore i know i dont.

Ok many of you think of high fancy kicks when you think about Tae Kwon Do.

People seem to think it is weak because of this one reason. Truth is Tkd is one of the most powerful martial arts you can learn, I never thought so until i started taking it.
See im training to be a pro Full contact fighter im going to train hard for another 4-5 years until i really start to compete, reason being i know im not ready im just learning everything i possibly can reason being why i post and read on this forum.I have trained in boxing, muay thai,

I have also learned a good amount of jujitsu from my friend but nothing had helped my power, speed, stanima, and defensive skills as Tae Kwon Do did.

and now i will get to why im posting this

Why do we learn high kicks in tae kwon do?
I thought about it and when i finally figured it out i asked my master and gave him my answer, to my suprise he smiled, patted me on the back and said he never had anyone figure this out on their own.

You constantly stretch and learn high kicks not to try to kick someone in the head far from it. (Even though i have found that snap kicks/jump snap kicks are an excellent knock out shot, do there devestation speed and anyone who has tryed to catch a full powered snap kick knows this. A powerful snap kick to opponents throat or jaw is very effective. You should only use it if you can snap kick a good 6 inches above the opponents jaw.)

But anyways you really learn high kicks because if you learn to kick real high with your kicks (rounhouse, axe, side, ect.) when you use them to lower targets of the mid and low section you have much much more power. Reason being if your able to use powerful high kicks those same kicks become lethal when used lower because you can follow through, penetarte and do much more damage beacuse of your flexibility from high kicks. Think about it everyone should get it.

Some dojangs use kick to the head but that should be only done in point sparring. If your instructor hasnt warned you about high kicks and most fancy spinn kicks and how not to use them in a street fight or full contact then chances are they dont know what there doing and probally are teaching you the sport of tkd and not the art. There only business is winning trophys and not turning you into a skilled martial artist.

I justed wanted to clear that up
You can listen to me or not
it wont hurt my feelings
but i guarantee you im not trying to BS and im dead serious
Posted by: Yoseikan Student

Re: I want to just clear this up with everyone about kicks in TKD. - 06/19/03 09:54 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tkdstreetfighter88:

You constantly stretch and learn high kicks not to try to kick someone in the head far from it. (Even though i have found that snap kicks/jump snap kicks are an excellent knock out shot, do there devestation speed and anyone who has tryed to catch a full powered snap kick knows this. A powerful snap kick to opponents throat or jaw is very effective. You should only use it if you can snap kick a good 6 inches above the opponents jaw.)

But anyways you really learn high kicks because if you learn to kick real high with your kicks (rounhouse, axe, side, ect.) when you use them to lower targets of the mid and low section you have much much more power. Reason being if your able to use powerful high kicks those same kicks become lethal when used lower because you can follow through, penetarte and do much more damage beacuse of your flexibility from high kicks. Think about it everyone should get it.

[/QUOTE]

Ok see where you are coming from and have read similar things about kata bunkai in karate. Would agree that throwing a kick through from a low position upwards does show ability to drive through - BUT on the whole many TKD kicks do not hit low and through - they hit high and are designed to do so - and thats why i'm going to have to disagree.

Being able to do high kicks will/ can improve the low kicks, but that does not mean that in training a high kick you are training a low kick. The only way to practice and perfect a technique is to do it and do it accurately.

You react/fight as you train.

If you kick high in training you kick high in fighting. Low kicks are different mechanically, so in training high kicks you are not practicing low kicks. In that respect I don't care what I'm told by an instructor - I know that that is a truth.

A high roundhouse hits the head first. A high snap to the chin/head is focused on the head and is driven through there. Both kicks are used a lot by TKD practicioners and they do not begin the impact at a low height - they were not designed to.

A side stamp kick is easier to drive through and get body weight behind that a high side thrust, but that is because they are different kicks NOT the same kick at a different height.

The mechanics of this is obvious.

[This message has been edited by Yoseikan Student (edited 06-19-2003).]
Posted by: Tkdstreetfighter88

Re: I want to just clear this up with everyone about kicks in TKD. - 06/20/03 07:08 PM

What im saying is, i mean that learning high kicks will improve your flexibility meaning that when used to lower targets you can follow through farther meaning more power.

As for being designed to be used as high kicks i can understand in certain cases like the snap kick i was explaining, i also beleive that the roundhouse and inside cresent kick could also do damage as a high kick but i wouldnt bet my life on it in a fight that could send me to the hospital.

I mean think about it you use a high kick your open, have poor balance, and even if you do make contact your probaly only gonna hurt him enougth to piss him off not injure him.

High kicks are mainly for show ever try to use one in a full contact and you will understand what i mean.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: I want to just clear this up with everyone about kicks in TKD. - 06/20/03 10:42 PM

define full contact-like in muay thai?
like in kickboxing? Like in pride fighting tournament?
I have seen head kicks in all of these.effective ones that resulted in a knockout.
A few years back a thai fighter in the night of champions tournament double round kicked another fighter along the jawline.knocked him out with the first kick,knocked him thru the ropes with the second one. They were fighting under thai rules.
Would I try a head kick on the street, where there is no nice ref there to back the other fighter off if I fall on my ass or get kicked in the groin? No way.
Posted by: Yoseikan Student

Re: I want to just clear this up with everyone about kicks in TKD. - 06/20/03 10:45 PM

good post

nuff said
Posted by: Karate Dude

Re: I want to just clear this up with everyone about kicks in TKD. - 06/21/03 07:42 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by nekogami13:
define full contact-like in muay thai?
like in kickboxing? Like in pride fighting tournament?
I have seen head kicks in all of these.effective ones that resulted in a knockout.
A few years back a thai fighter in the night of champions tournament double round kicked another fighter along the jawline.knocked him out with the first kick,knocked him thru the ropes with the second one. They were fighting under thai rules.
Would I try a head kick on the street, where there is no nice ref there to back the other fighter off if I fall on my ass or get kicked in the groin? No way.
[/QUOTE]Neko's politically correct. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]
Posted by: Lothmir

Re: I want to just clear this up with everyone about kicks in TKD. - 06/21/03 04:28 PM

Along with what everyone else has said about learning high kicks in TKD, the reason for high kicks is because it was originally used to kick enemies off their horses. Atleast, that's what I have read in a book about the history of martial arts. Thanks for your time! [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

-Lothmir(Flower Jewel)
Posted by: Karate Dude

Re: I want to just clear this up with everyone about kicks in TKD. - 06/23/03 09:59 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lothmir:
Along with what everyone else has said about learning high kicks in TKD, the reason for high kicks is because it was originally used to kick enemies off their horses. Atleast, that's what I have read in a book about the history of martial arts. Thanks for your time! [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

-Lothmir(Flower Jewel)
[/QUOTE]http://ocaladojo.tripod.com/karatedojo/id6.html
_____________________________________________
Posted by: kempo_jujitsu

Re: I want to just clear this up with everyone about kicks in TKD. - 06/23/03 01:06 PM

learning hight kicks for "COMPETITION" is one thing....self defense is completely different.
Posted by: Tkdstreetfighter88

Re: I want to just clear this up with everyone about kicks in TKD. - 06/24/03 12:45 PM

As i said in my second post
Some high kicks can work
but it is to risky
if anyone wants to go use high kicks in fullconatct then best wishes toward ya
but as for me i think i'll think i'll stick to what i was taught
Posted by: Chen Zen

Re: I want to just clear this up with everyone about kicks in TKD. - 06/27/03 02:35 PM

High kicks can work in full contact and street fighting. The key to making them lethal to your opponent and not yourself is being a well rounded MAist. You must have speed, power, timing, footwork, flexibility, strength, and good defense. After you have these things then you can high kick effectively, but not before. You shouldnt go out there like most tkdist and do nothing but kicks or start of with a kick or do fancy jump kicks or kick with the rear leg first.(most have been guilty of this early on in training). You have to know when to throw it out and keep it as secret weapon almost. Use it to counter or to devastate after a combo. There are a lot of variables with kicking but there are no hurdles that cant be crossed without proper training.
Posted by: kempo_jujitsu

Re: I want to just clear this up with everyone about kicks in TKD. - 06/27/03 06:17 PM

the only time i would use hight kicks on the street is
1. as the element of surprise...maybe he is not facing me and turns into a high hook kick...or just plain doesnt expect me to do it, but probably not even then. for me high kicks are too easy to evade, and leave you too off balance.
2. more likely than the first...i would kick them in the head only after i knock the crap out of em first..but even then i can think of better things to do.
so basically i think you should keep your kicks low..high kicks telegraph, they are slow compared to lower kicks, leave you too easy to off balance, and expose the groin and other vital areas of the legs too much. and considering my opponent probably isnt on a horse......
plus i must admit getting kicked in the knee or groin hurts alot worse than getting kicked in the head. so high kicks effective or not (to me NOT) are still to me not the best option.
Posted by: Chen Zen

Re: I want to just clear this up with everyone about kicks in TKD. - 06/28/03 01:10 PM

I wouldnt go so far as to say the best option but a viable option yes. I think it depends on your heigth and the length of your legs too. Im tall and flexible so I can lift my knee to most people's chin without much effort. Its my thinking that most people arent expecting you to throw it and thats the best reason to do it.
Posted by: smittenkittenTKD

Re: I want to just clear this up with everyone about kicks in TKD. - 06/29/03 05:20 PM

high kicks are used to make lower kicks better! they also look great in forms(poomse) lol ;-)
Posted by: Lothmir

Re: I want to just clear this up with everyone about kicks in TKD. - 07/02/03 07:55 PM

I agree with Chen Zen on the whole "it depends on your height". I'm short (5'2"/5'3") so low kicks don't really do much for me, they might graze someone's shin or something. I'd have better luck stepping on their foot. I've found I'm best at kicking in the stomach area. Then again, it also depends on the height of your opponent. Thanks for postin'!

-Lothmir(Flower Jewel)
Posted by: Chen Zen

Re: I want to just clear this up with everyone about kicks in TKD. - 07/03/03 12:58 PM

Flower jewel, In your case I would work on mid level and high kicks and try to work in some sweeps. At your heigth range if you can lower your center of gravity enough then you really trip someone up if you were to practice close sweeping.
Posted by: smittenkittenTKD

Re: I want to just clear this up with everyone about kicks in TKD. - 07/04/03 06:22 PM

ive found just the opposite than Lothmir (?)...im 4'11 and i like either kicking high or kicking low, and i have difficulties aiming for the midsection with some kicks
Posted by: Chen Zen

Re: I want to just clear this up with everyone about kicks in TKD. - 07/06/03 03:02 PM

Its the small martial artist that puts me at the most unease. They tend to try to get up underneath you. Luckily if they are small they usually dont weigh much.
Posted by: smittenkittenTKD

Re: I want to just clear this up with everyone about kicks in TKD. - 07/06/03 05:24 PM

haha
Posted by: Chen Zen

Re: I want to just clear this up with everyone about kicks in TKD. - 07/09/03 01:59 AM

Its the only way to deal with the little buggers! Picking em up and tossing them aside! What?! Its True!
Posted by: smittenkittenTKD

Re: I want to just clear this up with everyone about kicks in TKD. - 07/09/03 04:25 PM

LOL
Posted by: StormDOA

Re: I want to just clear this up with everyone about kicks in TKD. - 08/17/03 08:34 PM

Who says high kicks are not powerful? I bet I have seen 10 or 15 people knocked out with one kick to the head. One of my training partners, who is a huge (400lbs.+) guy and a big Judo practitioner and a bouncer, he got knocked out in 13 seconds, with the sloppiest back-roundhouse to the head. Some guy was killed in Germany by a high roundhouse. Tae Kwon Do is similar to traditional Hwarang Do and Kung Fu, by the fact that it trains the body for maximum use. I have a third degree in TKD. When I was a first degree I went through PPCT, which is the pressure point control tactics system they teach the cops and govt. enforcement. When asked to do a angle kick (which is a planted foot low, very bad roundhouse, I took the pad and holder of the ground, seemed pretty effective to me.Full hip training and maximum flexibility is only going to increase the power and variability of all of your techniques.
As I have said in earliar posts, it is the indivudual not the art that defines a good fighter, but as a training system or even a core system of combat, TKD is great. [QUOTE]Originally posted by Tkdstreetfighter88:
What im saying is, i mean that learning high kicks will improve your flexibility meaning that when used to lower targets you can follow through farther meaning more power.

As for being designed to be used as high kicks i can understand in certain cases like the snap kick i was explaining, i also beleive that the roundhouse and inside cresent kick could also do damage as a high kick but i wouldnt bet my life on it in a fight that could send me to the hospital.

I mean think about it you use a high kick your open, have poor balance, and even if you do make contact your probaly only gonna hurt him enougth to piss him off not injure him.

High kicks are mainly for show ever try to use one in a full contact and you will understand what i mean.

[/QUOTE]
Posted by: Isshin Dude

Re: I want to just clear this up with everyone about kicks in TKD. - 08/17/03 10:54 PM

LOLOLOLOLOL!
Posted by: kiwi

Re: I want to just clear this up with everyone about kicks in TKD. - 08/18/03 01:40 AM

This is not really about the topic. However in regard to the front snap kick. Street fighter was talking about fornt snap kicks being designed to kick high. The fact is they are designed to not be kicked high. You go to any traditional Taekwon-Do instructor and they will tell you , that a front snap kick is not ment to be used abouve middle. Take a look at your patterns (kata's), snap kicks are used mainly low, sometimes middle and never high. I don't know how often you have used this kick, but try kicking a bag (full power) at about belt height. Then kick high, you do not generate nearly as much power when you kick high. Why? Because front snap kicks were not designed to be performed above the chest.

On a side note, I completely agree with you about Taekwon-Do being great for power speed and stamina. I mean if nothing else those high kicks really tire you out [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG].

Now onto the topic

High kicks are effective, i have seen them used many times in NHB competition. However they work because the fighters have a nice ring to fight in with lots of room. However in a street fight you do not have nearly as much room. I'm not particuarly concerned about my students using high kicks in a street fight. You watch most Taekwon-Do practitioners when they get in close while sparring they punch, certainly evryone iv'e seen does (I have never met anyone who trains in those TKD schools where people arn't allowed to punch to the face).

[This message has been edited by kiwi (edited 08-18-2003).]
Posted by: Chen Zen

Re: I want to just clear this up with everyone about kicks in TKD. - 08/18/03 09:36 PM

True. While you can kick high with a front kick the power is lessened dramatically. Not like a side kick or roundhouse where the loss is minimal compared to damage done. As for kicking in the street it depends on the situation. If you can get away with it the excellent if not then you are in a world of hurt. Its my personal and humble opinion that you must be a talented kicker to even consider kicking in a street altercation and therefore its not for everyone.
Posted by: Rand

Re: I want to just clear this up with everyone about kicks in TKD. - 08/25/03 02:46 PM

the lower belts in our school especially in the adults class cant punch to the face

but we can do things like knife hand and hammer fist to the head


latly the higher belts even in the kids class have been punching to the face during sparring


EDIT: that is also why i try and spar with my brothers friends while im at home with proper equipment ofcourse because we allow for everything but stuff like eye attacks and groin attacks


we do standing and grappling

[This message has been edited by Rand (edited 08-25-2003).]
Posted by: alan_cooluk

Re: I want to just clear this up with everyone about kicks in TKD. - 10/24/03 06:09 AM

all i can say is with trainers on a goot back piercing kick will breack or even smash a jaw

a good reverse turning kick in the kidney can rupture sum1's insides and a good side kick to the chest can break ribs and rupture internal organs, tae-kwon-do is powerful my friend does aikido he bodybuilds and we train together often, mixing ideas he agrees. As does his dad, an aikido instructor that tae-kwon-do is VERY powerful if properly executed, i challenge any1 2 fight my instructor cause u will not be walking out without injury.
Posted by: badmamajama

Re: I want to just clear this up with everyone about kicks in TKD. - 11/07/03 03:37 PM

gentlemen i have used a round house to the head in a full contact kickboxing match with outstanding results the trick as with any move is the set up i was in a left lead stance i drove 2 vicious right side rear leg round house kicks to the side of my opponent when i say hard i mean brutal then i just twiched my rear right leg and my opponent did just as i assumed he would bear in mind he also was a black belt he dropped his arms down then boom lights out irene when i want to put a neck crank on someone that i have cross mounted i usually go for a keylock to hide my real intentions he focuses on the arm presto changeo its neck cranking time the secret to making any move succesful is to master first the move then your speed and timing then you must master the feint i submit that if 2 fighters are close in skill the master of the feint or fake will win your thoughts welcom
Posted by: John G

Re: I want to just clear this up with everyone about kicks in TKD. - 11/17/03 04:03 AM

The good old roundhouse kick...

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/10/28/1067233171700.html?from=storyrhs
Posted by: Spin_Hook

Re: I want to just clear this up with everyone about kicks in TKD. - 07/11/05 02:29 PM

I agree with tkd...kicking high has definitely helped my power a ton down at lower ranges where I tend to use the kicks. I would NEVER throw a head kick in a real fight unless I was absolutely positive that it was going to hit (like the guy is already stunned and halfway out with his hands down)...the reason being that I am relatively shorter and for me to kick a taller guy in the head means that I have to kick really really high.

Sure, high kicks can have power and you can certainly knock someone out with them...watching late night ESPN can tell you that.

However, most people AREN'T conditioned martial artists and I've put more than one would be attacker down by just round kicking him really hard in the calf or thigh. Why bother with something fancy that may not connect is my opinion.
Posted by: cannonfodder

Re: I want to just clear this up with everyone about kicks in TKD. - 07/11/05 06:34 PM

I feel like if i'm ever involved in a confrontation I want to end it as quick and keep it as safe as possible for me. A roundkick to the inner thigh or back of the knee would be enough to end it and not put myself at risk of getting thrown down to the pavement.
I do however agree with the fact of high kicks being great training for power/speed for the low kicks. It's definately a different motion, but if you can kick high efficiently, it makes it easier to throw the lower kicks.
just my two cents
Posted by: wynnema

Re: I want to just clear this up with everyone about kicks in TKD. - 07/12/05 04:02 AM

why drag up a thread that is nearly 2 years old
Posted by: oldman

Re: I want to just clear this up with everyone abo - 07/12/05 07:54 AM

Exactly.