Concerned about Energy Arts subforum...

I accidentally deleted the content of this post, because the main problems in it were resolved.
Still, go to : http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000364.html

And add your honest opinion, but be tactful as always, okay? [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

[This message has been edited by QiSnake (edited 11-21-2004).]

I'm partly with you on this on QiSnake.

I initially made several posts in the energy forum but over the last six weeks have felt the same 'constricting' feeling you speak of and agree it largely comes from the moderators.

I know that kids spouting about ki-blasts and the like can be annoying, but only if you allow them to be so. This in itself is only one form of energy (immature). Surely the internal arts teach us to not struggle against the flow of energy but rather re-direct it and this is something I feel should be happening in the forum.

I have seen things that are linked to qi in a very serious way and would like to be able to discuss such events. Many of which I don't doubt were 'tricks' but all the same they hold a place in the martial arts (whether we personally agree they should or not).

However, I gather the impression that you (QiSnake) have felt that even the elements are not spoken of in the forum and this is concerning. WuXing or 5-element theory has a huge connection with the martial arts particularly those influenced by the internal schools.

I do recall the thread regarding linking Ki to the element of fire or air and thought I had posted to it. (To the effect of it not being controlled by either) ki/qi/chi is not an element or controlled by one in particular.

As for ki-blasts I made a valid point that such phenomena do exist but only in the 'mind' of the practitioner. As an example I declared that when people first learn to manipulate their own qi visualisation plays a fundamental role. During this stage of training it is quite possible for someone to 'VISUALISE' a ball of qi expanding from ones palm. I in fact had one new student tell me that she pictured a steady stream of fire. All that matters is that such visualisation helped these individuals to channel their energy and ultimately gain better control of it. This is not mumbo jumbo just simply as it is.

The internal arts are intuitive arts and should continue to develop individuals in this way.

In closing, I agree that the forum has become less 'open minded' in recent weeks. If a thread troubles or aggravates someone then no-one is forcing them to participate in the discussion, just ignore it. If everyone feels the same about the thread then it will rapidly drop off of the 'Today’s thoughts' link.

Once upon a time a lot of people believed the world was flat.

Akiba

[QUOTE]
In closing, I agree that the forum has become less 'open minded' in recent weeks. If a thread troubles or aggravates someone then no-one is forcing them to participate in the discussion, just ignore it. If everyone feels the same about the thread then it will rapidly drop off of the 'Today’s thoughts' link.
[/QUOTE]
Thats the thing though, if other members only go to that subforum to mock and poke fun at those who actually wish to discuss ANY form of energy-art, whether you personally believe in it or not... then something is wrong.

The moderators should simply NOT be advocating such things, and I would call for a change.

I dont think 'ki blasts' or the 'linked elements' are just mumbo jumbo.. but as soon as I try to speak of them with equal consideration as things like Reiki, I expect to be mocked in the same manner as the others have been in that forum.

That is what this thread is for, to have something done. That subforum is DEAD for a reason y'know, and because nobody can post without being booted in the shin [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

Please go here, and add your opinion with respect? : http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000364.html

[QUOTE]I initially made several posts in the energy forum but over the last six weeks have felt the same 'constricting' feeling you speak of and agree it largely comes from the moderators.[/QUOTE]

My only question is why haven't you addressed this with myself, another moderator or the site admin/owner? How have YOU been constricted? What actions have given you this feeling? Are they toward you or another on the forum?

Laff, I don't really want to pursue this thread as in all honesty it doesn't bother me enough. The point as to whether it is me or someone else that has been 'constricted' is irrelevant. The fact that I 'feel' the forum is a little restrictive is what counts.

I don't hold you responsible for this nor do I want you to quit as being a moderator. You at least seem to be the most pro-active one here.

I'm not going to continue on with QiSnakes rant because I believe it is misguided and I have the feeling that he will too shortly (if not already). I do however, think he raised a point (somewhere?!?) in that the range of topics available for discussion on 'energy arts' is a little narrow. In my opinion the name of the forum should perhaps be changed to 'Internal Martial Arts' or something equally more apt.

'Energy Arts' should mean just that, some people think reiki is a load of mumbo jumbo. But we might understand it as a system of manipulating energy. QiSnake is correct in stating that people will use the more 'common term' when wishing to describe such things as 'focussed energy' or 'projected qi'. These things do exist though not in the form of 'physical' balls. (Hence the term 'internal')

As for OBE's, kinesis arts, astral projection etcetera people do have a belief in it and whether we like it or not they DO have a place in the more esoteric aspects of the martial arts. Admittedly these are frequently found as myths and tales.

To say that 'spirits' do not exist is also wrong, as the eastern cultures from which our arts developed from are littered with them. All these things opinion fall under the banner of 'Energy Arts'. They may not belong in a title known as 'Internal Martial Arts'.

If a new forum really needs to be created it is that one.

Akiba.

Though I've no idea who you are, but from your postings, I deem you highly knowlegeable (in theory & practice) in the things you said -- so far [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

However, you mentioned three things which at first glance appear unrelated but actually have a bearing on each other and which I respectfully wish to comment on:-

flat world -- yes, not too long ago people thought that. But it is precisely because of the constructive scepticism and positive experimentation displayed by the pioneering scientists then that we now "know" that the world is not flat. Perhaps the moderators may have come down hard on some members, but I do agree with the moderators that there has to be a limit to what should or should not be discussed on an energy arts forum within the context of MA. And this leads to another point:-

"spirits" in the eastern culture -- I come from just such a culture of ancestral worship where the dead are not really "dead" and "gone" but inhabit another realm of existence and so we burn all sorts of common everyday utility objects like, presently cell-phones are all the rage. In the context of martial arts, this spirit realm can or supposedly can be assessed and tapped to acquire some deadly MA techniques -- like getting the monkey god to impart the art of leaping 20 ft. into the air. You may casually ask why these people don't take part in the olympics -- yes, provided the organising committee allow monkey god altars to be set up with incense burning and chanting and gongs and drums and this "athlete" jumping around like a monkey on the field. I know of someone who during his youth actually took lessons in "spirit fighting" He said it was really weird as he was in a kind of half-trance; knowing what was going on but having no actual motor control over his body. The side effects were he sometimes did sleep-walking right out of his house and into the streets; it got so bad that an elder brother had to keep a watch over him in case he got run over. He was forced by his parents to stop training. Which leads to:-

One of your student visualizing a "stream of fire" Your student has unwittingly but dangerously, (or perhaps it is programmed into the inner psyche of humans) did something which many old masters have warned not to do; i.e. do not visualize powerful, extremely "yang" objects or thoughts when doing an IMA practice. It will awaken areas of the brain / mind which leads to all sorts of unforeseen negative side-effects; or worst unknowingly tapped into this other spirit realm. No one really am sure how the human mind responds to certain kinds of thoughts; and whether the human mind can actually "tune" into another plane of existence; especially during intense mental concentration.

Far fetched? My own mother has the ability to "summons" the 'spirit of the basket' A bit of background here. In an old chinese legend a rightious woman was killed and put into a basket and dumped into the river. Since then generations of women has been able to recite certain chants over an empty basket covered with a black cloth. A couple of men hold up the empty basket. Suddenly the empty basket just got heavy as though something went into it and it starts to rock. The men carrying the basket were not kidding themselves; there was no reason to as no commercial activity was involved; and no publicity of any kind. Questions were than asked and the basket rocks once or twice signifying a yes or no answer.

Do we want this sort of topics discussed under the Forum? It has something to do with "energy" Even a ghost needs energy to manifest itself into our plane of existence as the whole universe itself and every thing in it is nothing but a closed self-sustaining energy system.

[This message has been edited by ButterflyPalm (edited 11-30-2004).]