Kote Gaeshi Wrist lock

Posted by: Fletch1

Kote Gaeshi Wrist lock - 01/23/06 05:38 PM

Hello all.

The Kote Gaeshi wristlock is one of the first locks I learned in Traditional JJ. For those not familiar, it is the compressing and twisting lock where your thumb(s) is on the back of their hand with your gripping fingers at the base of their wrist.

The lock occurs as you rotate their own wrist up and inward. It becomes a throw when foot work is added as the lock has a way of pulling them out of balance.

Of course, for SD the throw is more of a crumple as without proper ukemi, the uke just gets his wrist broken.
Posted by: DullBlade42

Re: Kote Gaeshi Wrist lock - 01/23/06 05:55 PM

Yes, I love doing this wrist lock. One of my favorites.

Thumb on knuckles, press down on fingers out and back to you and the uke goes straight down. Or throw with the power step. Or just lock it up. Either way, when you get this tight, it's either cooperation or a broken wrist.
Posted by: oldman

Re: Kote Gaeshi Wrist lock - 01/23/06 08:28 PM

When I was a young guy I did break someones wrist with Kote Gaeshi. I was in High school and another kid pinned me up against a wall and threaten me with a knife to my neck. It worked like a charm on many levels. I disarmed him and put the knife in a teachers desk. I went to a kind of tough school. After the incedent I actually heard one guy tell another guy that was thinking about instigating say "Don't F*^( with Cook he'll brake your arm".
Posted by: Nuki

Re: Kote Gaeshi Wrist lock - 01/23/06 08:29 PM

Kotegaeshi is one of my favorites as well. I love using it against a traditional straight punch or a jab. Pivoting as they move slightly before their punch (they need to get in range) aim for their shoulder (in actuality their inner elbow, but it's a timing thing)... as they extend your hand will be in the "v" their arm makes in the process of punching. From this point is is easy to "capture" the wrist, quickly turn and cut down. If you can spin and ride the motion of their punch you can hook their wrist as they finish their extension. A slight continuation forward will pull them waaaay off balance...pretty easy after that point.
Training with a good partner may result in being hit several times, but in the end, it'w well worth it.
Posted by: eyrie

Re: Kote Gaeshi Wrist lock - 01/23/06 09:03 PM

What do you think of kote gaeshi as a weapon disarming technique?
Posted by: Taison

Re: Kote Gaeshi Wrist lock - 01/23/06 09:55 PM

Kote-gaeshi as a disarm? Well, from my viewpoint, any technique which results in the knife NOT pointing at my direction is a good disarm. Oh, you have to be able to take it from his hands as well. No Hollywood stuff of dropping the knife to the ground and kicking it away, that's dangerous. A) You could hit someone with the knife, or B) Your "victim"'s friends may pick it up and use it on you.

Kote-gaeshi. . That was the second move I learnt but when I was taught it was totally different from traditional JJJ. We use this after a mae-geri, grab the wrist with one hand, the other hand slams onto the elbow, another geri and then proceed with the step. I agree, if you don't have good ukemi, this is gonna break your wrist.

I believe, Kote-gaeshi if practiced properly is a solid tool in your arsenal for SD situations. It's also a good disarm as the pain in the arm will make the uke release any objects in the arm. If the uke is grounded and you still have control of the arm, many techniques can be followed.

-Taison out
Posted by: Leo_E_49

Re: Kote Gaeshi Wrist lock - 01/23/06 11:32 PM

This is also one of the first techniques I learned. I learned it on my second lesson ever in JJ actually.
Posted by: Fletch1

Re: Kote Gaeshi Wrist lock - 01/24/06 12:31 AM

From a traditional standpoint, I love Kote Gaeshi. It has entries from grabs, punches, thrusts, slashes, you name it. In a demo, it always gets oohs and ahhs. Past that however, I do not teach it, especially not for weapon counters.

Love to watch it though. With ukemi, it is poetry in motion.
Posted by: xuzen_628

Re: Kote Gaeshi Wrist lock - 01/24/06 12:37 AM

Kote-gashi is a standard technique found in the kihon (basic) syallabus of most aikido school. It is a very effective technique against knife (tanto actually, if we wish to be nit-picky ).

But it is not one of my favourite moves. As I have found out that in multiple uke scenarios, while working under pressure, I usually slip the grip. Sweaty palms and wrists are not condusive to this technique either.

Xwf
Posted by: eyrie

Re: Kote Gaeshi Wrist lock - 01/24/06 05:37 AM

That's interesting Fletch. So you don't see it as a valid or dependable response to a weapon disarm?

There are some other variations from the same entries when (a botched) kote gaeshi can be turned into a kote mawashi (wrist return) or kote oroshi (wrist drop) - depending on the situation.

Do you do the takedown and pins as well from kote gaeshi?
Posted by: oldman

Re: Kote Gaeshi Wrist lock - 01/24/06 08:53 AM

As far as a disarm goes let me tell you a bit more about my situation. My situation could best be called a threat / assault rether that an attack, not that it wasn't serious. My assailant was stationary in front of me talking smack and saying what he was going to do " I should cut you Muther F#$cker" My back was to the wall. I raised my hands up with my palms out parralell to the height of his hand. He was enjoying what he was doing. he turned his head over his left shoulder to give a cocky nod to a guy in tha group that had gathered behind him watching the situation. When he did that I took him down. It was his stupidity rather than my great knowledge that made my action possible. I did not face a wild slashing premeditated attack. I didn't want to give the wrong impression.
Posted by: Fletch1

Re: Kote Gaeshi Wrist lock - 01/24/06 12:25 PM

Quote:

That's interesting Fletch. So you don't see it as a valid or dependable response to a weapon disarm?

There are some other variations from the same entries when (a botched) kote gaeshi can be turned into a kote mawashi (wrist return) or kote oroshi (wrist drop) - depending on the situation.

Do you do the takedown and pins as well from kote gaeshi?




As I said, from a traditional standpoint, I love it. The way we teach weapon couters precludes specific, fine motor wrist manipulation. The move can work. For many people though, the assault happens too fast and too hard. If we have time to think about Kote Gaeshi, we have time to do many other things too.

Just my opinion.

Looking at Kote Mawashi, the straight arm wrist compression, I see that it has been a staple of Law Enforcement for a long time.
Posted by: azjudoaikijitsu

Re: Kote Gaeshi Wrist lock - 01/25/06 05:36 PM

It's one of the 1st moves I learned, very basic, but very effective.
Posted by: Ives

Re: Kote Gaeshi Wrist lock - 02/21/06 04:17 PM

I had to look the technique up, but I think it is was one of the things I learned last week. During my first jiujitsu course.
I really like that stuff.

Tomorrow my next class.
Posted by: ScottO

Re: Kote Gaeshi Wrist lock - 02/21/06 09:04 PM

Kote-gaeshi is pretty fun to find. It familiarizes you with the human wrist.
Posted by: gojuwarrior1

Re: Kote Gaeshi Wrist lock - 02/21/06 09:07 PM

I have known this move for a long time, learned it in my karate class. When i started my mma training, i tried to no avail to get this off, it is effective if i can only get it off. Things are just happening to fast and everything is all slippery in the heat of battle. What is my problem?
Posted by: ScottO

Re: Kote Gaeshi Wrist lock - 02/21/06 09:15 PM

Quote:

I have known this move for a long time, learned it in my karate class. When i started my mma training, i tried to no avail to get this off, it is effective if i can only get it off. Things are just happening to fast and everything is all slippery in the heat of battle. What is my problem?




To get the full effect of Kote-gaeshi, the energy needs to come back to you. Circular.

When your thumb is on the knuckles, imagine cutting the opponent in half with the hand that applies pain by going on the fingers.


The more you do it, the easier it will become to find and pull off.

Don't fight in practice. Don't practice in fight.


I always bug my friends and brothers. When they're talking or doing something, I try to get into the kote-gaeshi. most of the time it works, lately they've been keeping their guard up.
Pulsing to the face gets the natural reaction of putting hands to the face and energy moving back. So try to play around with different uke's reactions and keep asking questions.
Just some fun, I don't torture them or apply pain if that's what anyone was thinking. They like it.


As a matter of fact, ask THIS question to your instructor next class.
Posted by: Dereck

Re: Kote Gaeshi Wrist lock - 02/22/06 12:14 AM

Quote:

Hello all.

The Kote Gaeshi wristlock is one of the first locks I learned in Traditional JJ. For those not familiar, it is the compressing and twisting lock where your thumb(s) is on the back of their hand with your gripping fingers at the base of their wrist.

The lock occurs as you rotate their own wrist up and inward. It becomes a throw when foot work is added as the lock has a way of pulling them out of balance.

Of course, for SD the throw is more of a crumple as without proper ukemi, the uke just gets his wrist broken.




One of the many learned in Taekwondo from our Hapkido training. I also used this successfully in grappling though I'm sure in competitive venues this probably would not be allowed. Certainly taught for self defense and was one of the first learned as well. Did not know the official name of it so thanks.