effectiveness of judo in a street fight

I have been pratising Judo for 4 years and am a blue belt. Honestly, to make Judo really effective, executing brutal throws is a must. Firstly, a brutal throw will leave the opponent lying in pain compared to a simple striking. One example is a circle throw that may cause the opponent to break his head. Secondly, a brutal throw will scare the other opponent into submition or flight.

Otherwise, Judo is really ineffective except for its throw. Pinning is still able to be countered by bitting which is banned in the dojo. Pinning also leaves your back open to attack by a second opponent if present. I have also found that some or most of the throws in Judo allows the opponent to fall on the back SAFELY. He could just climb up and you have to do everything again.

Please get more degree at judo. ¿ What About Shime Waza & Kansetsu Waza? Chokes & Dislocations are 100 % warranteed

Judo is great for the street - hey, how does one land safely on the cement???

And you could always control the opponent to fall on his head and get SERIOUSLY injured...

It is just that not enough practise without clothes is done, and, besides, street clothes are not tough enough to bear
a hard grip & pull,

First the throw you describe is Tomoe-Nage. Try Tawara-gaeshi or Daki-wakare. Many others that only a small varience will severly hurt your opponent. Those two throw do not require clothing either.
And I disagree with Judo being ineffective. It has its strong point and weak points.
First the major strong point is that you fight in every class. Randori is a valuable tool and should not be dismissed as nothing more than "competition". Second is its ground work. I find it better than BJJ in this aspect. Many of the ne-waza techniques do not tie you onto the opponent as much. Example BJJ leg locks, mount, guard ect. The goal is to tie into your opponent to get a submission. Try geting up fast from a leg lock. Judo is more fluid in the aspect of being able to stand back up. Judo's priority is stand up. So I feel that you will fight differently in Judo. Don't get me wrong you can pin and tie up just as easy in Judo but there is a difference.
Where people think Judo is lacking is it's striking. You can learn Atemi waza techniques in Judo. Although not fully taught in the states, the atemi waza in Japan is . It is not boxing as in MMA but vital strike points, ie throat strikes ect. It is taught thru kata.
Fighting succesfully is not about what technique is best but what your mindset is. Fighting is a lot more mental than most people learn. Most students learn the flavor of the month technique but learn very little about the mental aspects of combat. Judo will teach you this, you may not regonize it as a beginner, get some time , you will develope it.
Ed

[This message has been edited by Ed Glasheen (edited 12-06-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Ed Glasheen (edited 12-06-2004).]

Judo is great because it teaches you the principle of "ju" -softness, using your oppenents force. Combined with some striking judo is great for self-defence situations.

Why would a Martial Artist want to hurt someone? Wouldn't being able to defend yourself while at the same time not harming your attacker be the utmost in skill? Maybe Judo is designed to be a more gentle way.

Ofcourse judo can also be used gently, like aikido by redirecting your oppenents attacks and I think that´s the ultimate goal. Being able to defend yourself without damaging your oppenent.

Again and again, I stressed that one on one fights are a piece or cake for M.A professionals. What I am talking about is taking on multiple opponents. Don't expect me to pin or choke someone when there two other thugs waiting to knock the hell out of me. Please don't get me wrong. I did not say Judo was not effective, I was trying to talk about variations of Judo. Ed Glasheen, you made my point. For me(opinion), I harden my fist and strengthen my arms so I can finish my attacker as soon as possible and throw them back into the gang.

Ed, that's insulting. I am not a beginner in martial arts. For me, I tend to focus on the practical side of martials arts for self-defence. While others will talk about the art and philosophy behind it, it does not appeal to me. This is just an opinion. As you read in my earlier post, I prefer to finish street thugs quickly. That was why I was a little put off by the gentleness of Judo. My master used to say that I could accidentaly kill someone if i continue to use brutal strikes. But now after i had read Budokanforfun's posts, I will think about how i will defend myself with hurting.

Did not mean to insult you, you stated that you are a blue belt????
If you are taliking multiple engagements well I think this is one of Judo weaknesses. Once you grab or are grabbed you are pinned down and less manuverable. Tieing up with your opponent may not be the best move in this case. Your throws are going to have to be quick,like uchi comi practice...and yes I agree any grappling in a multi fight engagement is not the best idea.
Ed

[This message has been edited by Ed Glasheen (edited 12-11-2004).]

A starter in Judo, but not necessarily in the Martial Arts.

Here's one of the few books that covers atemi-waza (striking) in judo. http://www.buyubooks.com/product details.cfm?id=10731
I haven't got it yet, but I'm going to.

[This message has been edited by Ivan (edited 12-11-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Ivan (edited 12-11-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Ivan (edited 12-11-2004).]

What is the name of the book. The html address would not work.
Ed

Sorry about that. If you go to www.buyubooks.com and punch in Judo Kyohan it comes up.

Do not waste your money. Has very little about atemi waza, maybe 3 pages. I just sold my copy on ebay.
Ed

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dallas:
Why would a Martial Artist want to hurt someone? .[/QUOTE]


Uh, because its MARTIAL?

hey, new to the boards, and just getting back into judo (Im actually starting ju-jitsu, I cant find a judo class locally) after a 2 year hiatus. As a white kid growing up in a black neighborhood I had my fair chance to use many moves in street fights. most highschool punks boot after one impressive throw, but I have had to use ground techniques before. Now I never learned the hard way but keeping it simple is key (I have used tomoe nagi before though). Just act natural and dont so much think as act and you'll notice yourself going in at tournament speed. A simple o goshi with an arm bar is plenty sufficent. When agressor comes forward take a step back, this gives him the impression that you're scared and attempting to back down and will confidently head in (giving you the favor of momentum) one neat little trick that your sensai probably wouldnt suggest is when you do a hip throw let your arm slide down to their wrist and grab during the throw, as they approach the ground pull up towards your chest. this will turn a fall into a slam as you whip their core against the pavement.

You need to distinguish which elements of Judo are good for a fight and which are not.

Throws are only one aspect of a fight, you still need to be able punch, defend punches, knees and kicks, and work in the clinch. Not to mention safely engage with your opponent so you can throw.

Trips work well too.

And throws arent necessarily as devasting as you might think. It's amazing what some people can get up and walk away from.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Benjamin:
Again and again, I stressed that one on one fights are a piece or cake for M.A professionals. What I am talking about is taking on multiple opponents. Don't expect me to pin or choke someone when there two other thugs waiting to knock the hell out of me. Please don't get me wrong. I did not say Judo was not effective, I was trying to talk about variations of Judo. Ed Glasheen, you made my point. For me(opinion), I harden my fist and strengthen my arms so I can finish my attacker as soon as possible and throw them back into the gang. [/QUOTE]

benjamin i agree with you i dont have specific martial arts training nor any martial arts discipline thouhg i believe in m.a. with my some street fight i used my fist and agility to counter attact

In "my opinion", to answer your question you have to consider where judo came from.

Judo has backgrounds in Ju-jitsu, which as those of you that study it know Jitsu can be used to a high level of efficiency in a "street fight". So we know that in theory we could use our judo techniques in a real fight.

We need not use overly complicated and dramatic techniques such as Tomoe-Nage as such throws are unrealistic and give you no advantages to a fighting situation as you are also falling on the floor. Why not keep things simple and try using leg sweeps such as O-Soto-Gari which is a powerful technique especially when throwing onto concrete. The key to defending yourself in any martial art is to either put a dead stop to the attack (I.E block) or to let the attack flow and move of the line of strike then use the attackers force to his advantage.

Imho, if practised properly any MA can be effective in a real situation. I hear most people say Judo's supposed to be in the top 5 or so most effective for self defense, along with Muay Thai, Boxing, Hapkido and JKD. But this is only what I gather from what I hear.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jaybe1:

Why not keep things simple and try using leg sweeps such as O-Soto-Gari which is a powerful technique especially when throwing onto concrete.

[/QUOTE]

Yes, it´s very easy to sweep someone who has no experience of sweeping.

[QUOTE]...For me, I tend to focus on the practical side of martials arts for self-defence. While others will talk about the art and philosophy behind it, it does not appeal to me. This is just an opinion. As you read in my earlier post, I prefer to finish street thugs quickly.QUOTE]

Please dont take this the wrong way and think that I am attempting to be insulting because I am not. Its say some things in text where tone and pitch are not present [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

I have to ask this cause I am curious... What do you do that makes you a street thug magnet? Are you a cop or a gang member or a navy seal or a vigilantee super hero? I mean how often do you get into situations where you have multiple attackers? I know that it is benneficial to know how to defend against these types of situations but how often do they occur in real life? I think you will see that as time goes on you will be able to deal with these situations better. Judo is not far from Jujutsu (which I take) and there are plety of things one can do to quickly stop an opponent so they can move on to another. As for the philosophy, although I cannot make you adhere to it, I sincerely hope that you decide to someday take heed of it because if you look closely at it and really take it in, it will transfom you in ways that will make you less likely to get into a fight.

Again I mean you no insult by any of this, I am merely stating my opinion. At any rate good luck with your training and don't lose hope. At worst you can take another art in addition to Judo to enhance your methods of attack [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

~Glenn

Judo is a great style for street fights. You can either completely negate the opponents efforts while being able to cripple/KILL them when ever you feel like it. Plus, what kind of style is there that you can fight multiple opponents. Regardless of what people say, it's not possible. Except Rex Kwon Do.