Promotions in Judo

Most Judo clubs require competing in tournaments in order to be eligible to test for a higher rank...any opinions on if this is a fair/good practice? Many clubs also require that you not only compete, but win. Does anyone think this has positive/negative effects on the attitude of the students and the actual progress they make?

I think it stops people getting belts they don't deserve.

Not that grades are that important as such, but at least when you see a judo blackbelt - you know that he has gone out and through blood and sweat achieved a combat award through real, alive, full contact matches.

I think its a mind set, in the end Judo has made the transision to sport, you don't give an athelete a gold medal just because he has trained for as long, turned up to all the training sessions, watched his diet like the next athelete who has done the same - but actually won. Do you see what I am getting at.

The winning is the progression - in judo at least.

I agree, it would stop undeserving people from getting the belts. My dilema is that some, including me, do not have the time/money/ability to travel in order to compete, yet are passionate and train hard. Some, like myself, also attend seminars/training camps as often as possible. Is it not unfair to penalize people who train hard and are good, but simply can't attend tournaments? It sounds like I am complaining about my club, but I'm not. They are very competitive, but in 2 years I've only been to 2 tournaments. It's very local to me, so I can accomplish it, and my club understands. Just noticed other people I have met whose clubs are strict about certain requirements (one being competing and winning). I think the belts should not be associated with medals/trophies. If you want a medal: compete...if you want rank promotions: train hard and improve. I also agree belts should not mean a lot, but they do to a lot of people...it's a way to gauge your progress, not your competitive edge and ability to win medals/trophies.

wouldn't it also make sense if for whatever reason you can't compete, have match against whatever belt rank you are going for?
If you beat them, or do realy well doesn't that mean you are ready for the next level?

I was thinking with the BJA they have grading (yes you still have to compete and win) which you should have at your club from time to time.

As for expense judo is probably the cheapest martial art out there you don't really need any more than the gi and belt and haven't you ever heard of getting a lift with other people from the club?

Obviously I am not sure of your circumstances but if you wanted to compete - you would find a way.

You have a point, if you want to compete you will find a way...but it's still not that easy. You could definitely hitch a ride, but you may still have to stay overnight in a hotel, pay for the competition costs, and eat. For a full-time college student with a part-time job, this is not easy...it COULD be done, but it is not really practical. But as well, that is part of the point: some people don't want to compete...they just want to train, fight, and learn. The question is, should they be a white belt with lots of experience, even if they can ippon the brown belt sitting next to them 9 out of 10 matches? Furthermore, wouldn't it be unfair (to other competitors) if they practiced for three years, remianed a white belt, then decided to compete in a tournament...they would be in the white belt division.

i dont belive in belts as a form of rank myself, i know what throws, pins, and chockes i am able to do, i dont need specific colored belt around my waist to let myself and others know what my skill level is. i dont compete in judo, i never intended to but my sensei is always trying to push me to compete to help me promote to the next belt, that is where i dont see eye to eye with him. i honestly dont care if i ever move up to the next colored belt, as long as my skill level increases, that is all that matters to me, besides, i randori with all types of skill levels, i think my sensei can tell what i am capable of doing. when i first got into judo i was looking for a martial art for self defense only, i had no idea that judo was such a big martial sport and most people were in it to compete, i decided to stick with it though. i wish we could have class sometimes wearing plain street clothes instead of gi's, if i comes down to having to defend yourself out on the street chances are they wont be wearing a gi for you to grab hold of.

Justin, good point and I agree the ranks don't mean much other than colored cloth. I was just debating the fairness of it to you (hypothetically) and others you may later face if you decide to compete one day. My club is similar with the pressure to compete in some tournaments, but they don't bother with it too much if you tell them you just want to train for fun/self-defense. If you want to try to fight without the gi, try finding people at your club or other grapplers near you. I have a few friends who do BJJ and some who wrestle...sometimes we train w/out the gi. It feels pretty different at first (training w/out the gi), but it is not as difficult to adapt as you may think...you'll still have good footwork and mat-sense.

most competitions are in weight categories anyway, who cares what grade you are, what counts is how many ipons you can get!

another thing about belt and rank promotions i disagree with is being nailed with a $50 testing fee, i think the $100 i pay a month is enough. i dont know about your school but at my school my sensei added an orange belt, is what i am right now, im in between yellow and green, and he added a blue which is a belt between green and brown. when i took the test i thought i was taking the test for the green, when i was done he handed me an orange belt, for awhile everyone kept asking me why i had an orange belt because the kids have and orange belt in the ranks.

JustinC: I think you are getting ripped off.

As for competition I think it makes you better, you get to fight with more different types of people and if you have a problem with weight categories - thats what the open events are for!!!

im just curious, how much do you guys pay a month for training? i pay $100 for unlimited training, i personally think its a lot of money but i never compaired it to any other schools in my area.

Justin, that seems pretty high...my club is:
$10 individual session
$70 monthly for 3 days per week
$80 monthly unlimited
test fees are $20
Our belt system for adults is white, green, brown, black...I did well at a couple of tournaments and was training like a mad man...when I tested for green they gave me a brown belt and said they discussed it and I deserve it...that was after about a year and a half of training.
Also, with the training fees, if you pay for 3 days per week, but can make it 4 days, they will say not to worry about it.
Perhaps your club is high in cost for other reasons though...area, is that your instructors only income? My club has 3 instructors and I think they each work regular jobs also.

Although I am not active at the moment its about £3 or £4 which for US is probably about $5.

Judo in the UK is cheap!!

i am going to ask about the prices because it sounds like i havent been treated fairly. last month i only attended 2 class had i mentioned it to my sensei but he charged me $80. this seem to to be disorganized there.

Justin, if you only went to 2 classes and got charged $80, I think it's safe to assume that your instructor is a jerk. That can be frustrating if you really like the system he teaches. I used to do Ving Tsun (Wing Chun), but the instructor was similar with $ signs in his eyes. He was a good teacher and I learned a lot, but at the same time I felt like I was being taken advantage of. I really liked training in that system and if I ever find a reasonable instructor I will try it again...but I wasn't about to get ripped off. One of the main reasons I like Judo so much is that my instructors are really cool and it they are reasonable. I actually just started Shotokan at a club in my college, and the affiliated dojo allows Temple students to train unlimited at the actual dojo (in addition to the club) for $60 for six months. It is far for me to drive, but that is too inexpensive to pass up, even if I only make a few times per month. I guess my point is that you should consider finding a more reasonable club in your area (if there are any).

[QUOTE]Originally posted by justinc:
i am going to ask about the prices because it sounds like i havent been treated fairly. last month i only attended 2 class had i mentioned it to my sensei but he charged me $80. this seem to to be disorganized there. [/QUOTE]

If he charged you $80 and it was only for 2 classes then you're being taken for a ride.

If however the guy said $80 for the month and you could train up to 20 times in the month, but you only managed to get to 2 sessions, then that's your problem.

JohnL

no i just paid him last friday for sept. i only made it one day in the first week of sept., and last friday. the people at my school say that it is one of the best schools around and i wont find any better training, but i dont know because it is the only school i have ever been to so i cant compare.

Of course loyal students will say it's the best...my opinion, shop around. What harm is there in checking out other places and making your own judgement?

there are a few other judo schools in my area, i think the instructors there were taught by my instructor. i really dont think his training methods are all that great, but his other students will argue with you. when i was a white belt he would say things like i "you learn twice as fast as all the white belts i have" and he told me that i was going to be the best white belt at his club touranments, he owns 2 schools by the way, well, i wasnt he best white belt at his tournament, i was maybe the worst, i got destroyed bad!, and i mean bad! it really made me mad, not because i got beat really bad, but because my instructor pretty much was leading me on the whole time. after the tournament he told me that i need to work harder too, i could not belive what i was hearing, he totally contridicted what he had previously told me. actually the other white belts were pretty advanced white belts with a lot of randori expirence, i had very little at the time, it totally destroyed my confidence. i am thinking about switching to a different style of martial art, but im undecided on what kind, that is why i havent been going to judo class as much as i used too, i figured i would take a class here and there, but if he is going to charge me the kind of money like he is then im im probably going to quit all together. i would like to mention who he is but someone on this message board might know who he is and then i will end up in deep crap if i ever go back there. he has been around for awhile.

There is no club randori which can substitute for the experience of competition. Not all of us can compete due to age or injury, but if you don't compete you will miss the most productive and character building part of judo.
Go fight a stranger in front of a crowd of your friends. It's intense.
It is also what keeps judoka from being the martial arts charlatans that are occasionally found in other styles that never actually compete against a fully resisting opponent to test what works and what doesnt.

Judodoc, that is a really good point. My first competition, the fights happened so fast I barely remembered what happened, and I got third. It seems that the adrenaline took over and even though I ipponed my first two opponents, I didn't remember exactly what happened. It was all instinct. I definitely think competitions are important for a full view of training and I agree black belts should have experience competing. Since I started this post my opinion changed a little. I originally felt it should not be necessary, but I am rethinking that. It is actually something I wish I did more of and will get the chance again. I injured my neck recently and simply turning my head is causing pain. This happened about 9 months ago. It is starting to feel better (I was in Phys Therapy for the past 3 months), and when it does make a full recovery (or close to it), I am going to compete much more. I compete at least 1-2 times per year, but when I am able to train hard again, I plan to up that to AT LEAST 3 times per year. This injury and absence of training has made me very 'hungry.'

[This message has been edited by immrtldragon (edited 10-10-2003).]

jiujitsu had no belt rank .dr kano dr kamo was a trained teacher.he devised colored belt .he would watch to see how his students progressed.besides no colored belts?a bigenner starts a to work out with a white belt,and gets his clock cleaned.just becausethe other player was way advanced in judo .fair?

i was kinda hoping one of you guys can help me. I have always been interesred in judo and especially more so since i started back in JKD. I am toying with the idea of gettin involved in a class in the little spare time i have.

CAn anyone either tell me or point me in a direction of a website (looked at judoinfo.com but no joy-excellent website though) that would tell me of grading requirements / belt requirements and how often a grading happens.

I sorta get the impression that it isn't going to be what i am used to in TKD. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Find your local Judo club.
Walk in.

I have no doubt you'll get the education you're after.

JohnL

I agree with John that you should check out your local club, Bear. Reason being that most clubs have different criteria for advancement. I know clubs where recreational players can achieve rank without competing, but most require wins in competition to advance. All depends on the club.

No bother men.
It'l not be for atleast another month yet anyway (could actually be 6-7).

Thanks again.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by immrtldragon:
Most Judo clubs require competing in tournaments in order to be eligible to test for a higher rank...any opinions on if this is a fair/good practice? Many clubs also require that you not only compete, but win. Does anyone think this has positive/negative effects on the attitude of the students and the actual progress they make?[/QUOTE]Until recently I thought this was not quite right. Yet I recently read an article on the judo info page which made great sense. The first step to facing uncertainty is simple:face it. People who compete against strangers in competition learn to look inside themselves during confrontations for strength which benefits both adults and children. Competition is scary because we don't (usually) know our opponent. Reality training is just a step above competition so this is like a preview of the pressure.

Bingo

The topics a bit old but I'll comment anyway. It is not a neccesity to compete in order to be promoted in judo. It just take longer to progress, its called time in title.
I think there are many many judoka that study and dont compete. Those that study and perform kata still progress through the kyus and dans. So there's nothing wrong with being a non competitor.