Back pain

Hello people. My back has been in some pain since the end of last year. Anytime I twist to a direction, I feel a sharp pain and I hear a crick sound as if bones are snapping in. Even when I inhale I start feeling the pain in my back and hearing that crick sound sometimes. I tried feeling with with my hands and I see that it is near the spine the pain is from. Not the spine itself but near. Sadly, due to this I haven't been able to exercise since the time I had it so I've lost most my muscles and I'm out of shape now. But I want to get back in shape. What is the best advice. And it is possible that it may have been cause by heavy lifting.

Please and thank you.

The best amd only advice for such long term and chronic back pain is too get medical diagnosis and treatment. If it were a small problem, it would have gone away by now, but here you are nearly 5 months on, still with pain during normal day to day movement.
It sounds like it may be a herniated disk, but this will need scans and medical skill to confirm, and from there a specific medical treatment plan.

I might check a chiropractor money for medical is a big problem right now but thanks for the advice.

Chropractor would not be a best 1st choice, you need proper medical help.
I appreciate money can be an issue, but this is your spine we are talking about. If that is not addressed as a priority, then the consequences could be life changing.

Thank you Cord. But now I'm worried if I'll ever be able to exercise again. I'm only 17

I'll second Cord, if only from experience. Having had several tpyes of back problems, I can attest that it isn't something to 'just wait and see'.

I gave up TKD because the specialist (who does TKD too) actually pointed out that the spinning wasn't good for my neck (where the trapped nerves are). A couple of years down the line, I got slack on watching my posture, working on computer etc... I'm now back at the specialist with pins and needles down my face and left side (two trapped nerves this time!).

You always want to go see a doctor when you have a serious acute injury.

After they help you and they give you a diagnosis you can then see what other therapies can help you out.

acupuncture can help with the pain and help aid in healing. But if you are serious injured you need to have diagnostics tests done to see what is actually wrong with you.

Dont be silly!! This will not be your last injury in an active life, and it may not be your worst!! All you need to do is find out what the problem is, have it treated, and heal. Its that simple, but you cannot treat or heal anything till you know what's wrong.

At 17, you will bounce back quickly, providing you dont keep ignoring it until it becomes something more than it is at the moment.

Yep, seconding Cord again. get it fixed, do what the doc say and you'll probably never even realise you had a problem.

Your biggest danger at 17 is thinking you're indestructible and trying to train through an injury.

I remember a young lad I met in a TKD club who admitted to having a leg injury but still did high kicks, hard training etc. I told him he was crazy doing that with such an injury. He said, "yeah, but that's what MA is all about, training through it and ignoring the pain!"

I replied it was more like being able to still be able to use your legs when you were 30. No good training through if you can't actually do the technique later on.

wasn't really training through it still but thanks for the advice

Obviously seeing a doctor is always the safe advice but I'd also suggest seeing a bodyworker of some description. Looking through your post history you had a calf tear a while back didn't you? These two bits of anatomy share a common functional bond as part of what is sometimes called the superficial back line... here is a picture:

http://www.bbcfl.com/BBCFL%20-%20Newslet...back%20Line.gif

Dysfunction and excess tension in any part of this chain spreads throughout the entire line. Quite often though the backline is often the victim of the piece and not always the villain. The real problem can be because of the front pulling too tightly (I think you mention chiseled abs in one post?) which makes the backline have to pull even harder... til in snaps. On a deeper level many problems can be tracked to the bodys core which is referred to as the deep front line in the model the above picture comes from.

I personally wouldn't recommend going to see a chiro... just a personal opinion on treatment theories. Looking at what we know of your history I'd recommend finding a good myofascial release specialist, structural integration bodyworker or a rolfer... I don't know where you are from but Tom Myers KMI program has produced so highly reputed bodyworkers:

http://www.anatomytrains.com/kmi/practitioners

You know I am all for postural integrity as a form of prevention Gavin, but no way, having had the injury already occurr, and being so long term and chronic, would I go straight to treatment before proper diagnosis.

Scan - pinpoint problem - appropriate remedial treatment - long term postural maintenance.

No matter how good these guys are, they are still not trained to a level comparable with mainstream back specialists when it comes to diagnosis. They do not have the tools, nor the resources to be so. Bear in mind I am talking about orthopedic specialists, not GP's here.

MRI as a first stop FTW.

Bones don't pull themselves out of alignment so sorting tissue dysfunction is a priority. An MRI will only tell you that there is a problem not what is causing it. As I said going to the doctor is always the advice but seeing a decent bodyworker from the start will provide relief and possibly a solution that doesn't involve going under the knife. I've had a couple of clients who've been told they'd need operations but avoided them through therapy and a well designed rehab program. The doctor is obviously covering the bases and making sure... but seeing a decent bodyworker will almost certainly provide relief and could save unnecessary work having to be done.

If it is chronic I'd also say that this is even more reason to see a postural specialist.

Avoiding back surgery is always a plus, and most people that are told they need it, don't. So, that being said, it still doesn't change the fact that the OP should probably at least get the MRI to make sure there's no structural damage that could be made worse by someone like a rolfer. While I know an incredible guy for that in LA, I still wouldn't jump to that BEFORE finding out the severity and nature of the injury. If the OP is near LA/Glendale to be exact, let me know and I can give you a referral. This guy is my own personal Jesus, man. I took my mom to see him at one point when she was so bad she was stuck in a wheelchair. But she walked out of the office after the treatment. The guy's a miracle worker.

BUT---- find a way to get the damn MRI first. Even if you get it done and then skip out on paying. They'll work that out later. But, if you take a fractured vertebrae and start letting someone hammer on it, you may end up with something much more permanent. Just my opinion, but I am speaking from experience. You can do yourself a whole lotta damage by jumping into treatment without being sure of the injury. I gotta back Cord on this one.

Nobody would doubt that back pain is largely symptomatic of trouble elsewhere, btu what bodyworkers are prone to doing is 'reverse chiropracty' , ie, at its birth, chiropractors sold the snake oil that all ailments could be solved by making the spine align and be 'healthy'.
Now we have a method of thought that offers secondary therapy as a cure-all for the spine, and its just not that simple.

If a disk is irretrievably prolapsed/ruptured, then no amount of postural therapy will alleviate the pressure on the surrounding nerves.

The level of damage cannot be 'felt' externaly, and needs to be seen through the use of medical scanning.

The severity fo the 'symptom' then dictates the method of treatment, which may well rely completely on secondary focus, be it fascial or muskulo-skeletal, but if the diagnosis shows the syptom to be beyond the reach of non invasive procedure, it is vital that be ascertained quickly to ensure that the nerve integrity is not compromised through a prolonged period of contra-indicated activity.

Cord I notice that when I sleep on my back it seems much better, I'm going to the doc Monday by the way. If he tells me to scan and then I hear surgery then its out of my reach right there. But I notice from my few days of resting it that the pain has lessen. Still I'm going to check it.

A predictable response. Firstly the diagnosis of a ruptured/prolapsed disc is an armchair diagnosis - what could be affectionately termed a 'pub diagnosis'.

I won't get in a tit for tat argument here with you mate because that is what seems to happen every time I seem to encroach on your little corner of the web. Its getting a little boring arguing every time and although we share similar opinions our experience and the awareness is vastly different.

Lonefox - Go and see the doctor. If the medical fees are a problem, most chiro's are qualified to do x-rays which can usually pick up any potential disc problems. If there is a disc problem again this doesn't immediately mean you will need surgery - I have a number of clients who have been told they have disc problems and coped perfectly well without surgery.

As Cord has been very keen to point out to me many times in the past people have managed for thousands of years without these new fan dangled 'medical sciences'. The body has a wonderful ability to adapt and evolve, and in my experience it does this a lot better when the system is in a state of balance and ease.



There is a clue here! If the pain lessens through rest and increases when you do what ever you're doing in your daily life... perhaps you might need to change something your doing in your daily life.

In closing note, I'm a physical therapist who deals with a fair amount of post-op and pre-op clients (not of the gender reassignment variety BTW) and if *I* had a back problem, based on my experience as a therapist, martial artist and someone who has dealt with a lot of bad backs my first port of call would be seeing the best bodyworker I could find. BUT this my personal opinion having dealt with and had bad backs myself. You have also been given sound advice from people whom have had bad backs and spoke to people who have had backs themselves... remember this is the internet and everyone is an expert.

See the doctor, but I'd personally want to explore all possibilities. A bodyworker worth their salt will not make a problem worse, they should have the sensitivity, awareness and humility to refer you if needed.... as should a good surgeon. However in my experience sometimes neither party has the ability to refer appropriately. Which again goes back to the old adage that 'your health is your responsibility' and you should listen to your body, the experts and the weirdos from the internet and make an informed decision.

Ouch. I dont know who took the jam out of your donut today mate, but dont take it out on me

I know I am just an old bloke who has been out of the game a long time, but a 'pub diagnostition' I am not. As a sports therapist I worked in sports rehab for a decade, and have had a fair few (read hundreds) of success stories myself.

You talk of humility and people on both sides of the medical fence knowing their limits.

All I will say here is that I concurr, and that is part and parcel of my recommendations.

From personal experience, my wife'd back 'went' very badly in 2000 before I met her. 4 months bed ridden, and the next year when we met she was on crutches, with a wasted left leg. Hydrotherapy, core classes, accupuncture, physio rehab were all enforced upon her as she waited for an MRI that was promised, but never came. All the therapy had no effect whatsoever. I worked with her on her ITB's, hamstring/glute engagement and posture and she was able to walk down the aisle unaided, but was still in a lot of trouble. 2003 and still no scan as she had been 'lost' in the system, so I saved up, and we went private for a one off, which then showed complete degenration of 3 lumbar disks. The specialist then kindly piggybacked us back into the NHS for a laminectomy. The op was a success, but because the dead disk tissue had been crushing the nerves for so long (nearly 4 years at that point), there was permanent nerve damage, and my wife will be debilatated forever, no matter how many foam rollers and multifidus exercises people throw at her.

An earlier scan would have led to a better outcome.

Lone Fox has already said repeatedly that money is an issue, so he would be better to invest in DIAGNOSIS, that can then be used by any branch of medicine he can afford from there, than htting and hoping in the largely unregulated world of complimentary therapy.

That is my HUMBLE opinion.

Peace.

Foam rollers = myofascial??? I see now - you really need to read around the subject more.

But all is cool mate. My jam is firmly jammy and tasty and the advice is all sound. You diagnosing a 'sounds like a herniated/ruptured disc' from a one paragraph list of symptoms is a 'pub diagnosis' and isn't sound. I'm trained in spinal palpation and wouldn't dream of suggesting or feel qualified to do such a thing to a client let alone to a complete stranger even with putting my hands on.

Oh dear My foam roller comment was facetious, and in focussing on it, you have rather missed the point of the whole exemplar.

I have no doubt in your abilities Gav, and am glad that you go from strength to strength in a field that I too excelled in.

Are you happy to acknowledge that different therapists and medical practitioners often disagree and use their own experience to develop their treatent philosophies, and dont need to dig at one another in an effort to present their thoughts?

Lone Fox has two well presented plausible paths to choose from, and he is free to ignore either or both for that matter.

*edited as I sounded more cobby than what I was trying to convey.

The reading round the subject was comment was also facetious... silly!

All I suggested was that lonefox should also see a structural specialist and it was you that belittled the knowledge in this field and made the diagnosis of ruptured disc and a few posts later there is a young impressionable man ready to take the advice of a doctor and go under the knife. Mine was balanced you started the 'largely unregulated', 'the back specialists have more experience', etc, etc dismissive comments. I thought my advice was and still is sound and professional based on experience. I think making any diagnosis is irresponsible... from a friend or otherwise. Being from a friend I felt more comfortable pointing it out.

I've offered my opinion... and have asked your advice in the past (it was around 5 years ago BTW) and I remember my advice being asked and offered also. I also disagreed with you strongly in the past and will continue to so into the future because you are a weights obsessed tattooed oaf who perhaps should follow his own advice at times. BTW foam rollers are good but you can also do D.I.Y chiropractics with two rolled up magazines.... Lone should take the porn mags from under his bed and use them to sort his back out.

I think this may all be a little miscomunication you scrawny mockney.

I was not offering a concrete diagnosis, merely an educated possibility based on rotational spinal granulation, and 'classic' acute back pain that was indicated to have been constant for 5 months, regardless of activity level.
I should have pointed out that it could be any number of other things, but I do not always live up to my own high standards on account of being (just about) human.

I do not hold complimentary therapy in low regard- how the hell could I? I was a freakin' complimetary therapist myself!!??

My issue is purely based on order of action in the treatment plan.

You are confident that by following a fascial and postural care plan as an initial action, 95% of spine problems will 'sort themselves out' as symptoms.

You are probably right.

However, an accurate medical assessment (x-ray, MRI), will give a clear and confirmed diagnosis of the 'symptom' , and from there, the patient can discuss options with any and all therapists and medical staff.

Surely even an egotistical myofascial fanboy such as yourself would agree that of the thousands of unregulated therapists in the world, there are far more who can be relied upon to treat effectively based on sound medical evidence than can be relied upon to diagnose with medical precision.

Treatment cannot be used as an efficient diagnostic tool, thats bass-ackwards.

By all means avoid surgery as a first resort. Take your scans to a bodyworker, a pilates class, a physio, a faith healer and 'Candy' the sensual therapist on Acacia Avenue if you think it will help.
But all of them will be more efficient, more productive and more successfull if they can hit the ground running with a known quantity.

Thats what i was trying to say. You Berk.

Well dickhead we sort of sound like we are in agreement then don't we!

I would just add that surgery does not fix it relieves. And quite often the body never gets to the point where it can attempt to heal itself... we'll leave my rant against there is no such thing as a healer, medically qualified, complimentary qualified or blessed by an dead spiritual chinese medicine man whilst stoned... there is only putting the body in a state so that it can identify the actual problem and heal rather than just firefighting and compensating.

The reason for the chiro to get the scans though is there is a good chance that lonefox is based in the states and may find it extremely expensive to get insurance to cover an existing complaint and it may be cheaper getting them through a chiro.

Case closed.

Mockney over and out!

and there are things the body simply cannot heal, and removal becomes the only option.

X-rays are not as good as an MRI, but you dance with who brung ya innit?

Laters. you little hippy twat-bag

Absolutely agreed.

Hippy little twat bag out!

This is like reading a therapy discussion between Gollum and Gollum ("It's my diagnosis, my pweshus!").

I don't think it's back therapy you guys need...

Incidentally, my pins and needles in my face cleared up yeasterday whilst playing my bodhran... is Irish music good for trapped nerves?

"lone should take the porn mags from under his bed and use them to sort his back out."

Well I found that statement very unnecessary and disrespectful. Although I don't you personally you seem very arrogant and rude Gavin. You turned this discussion over my back into a very stupid argument. I honestly think Cord has the right idea. For an adult your behavior is rather ridiculous.

But still I came back from the doc yesterday he said its looks like a muscle strain so theres really no MRI or X-rays required. He tested it with some wooden tool. He says I need to use warm water on it twice per day along with a pain relieving gel. Sleeping on my back seems to relieve the pain slightly though not completely. He gave me some pain pills and recommend that when pain is gone enough I go swimming.

Thanks alot Cord and Trevek.

Lonefox, Gav's comment to you re. the mags was meant as a joke, nothing more.

When it comes to his opinions regarding rehab he is no more, or less, precious than I, hence our knocking heads, but he is a good guy, and a friend, so no need to jump to my defense, though I thank you for the sentiment

Ironicaly, once your back is recovered, following Gav's advice on seeking a postural worker may well help highlight any imbalances/issues that can prevent the problem returning.

Good luck, and rest well

Agreed. Gav and I have butted heads before, and while both of us have a strong sarcastic bend, I doubt that he meant that comment with any malice.

In my experience I think all of the long term posters have butted heads before... and have almost always ended up with a joke, a smile and laugh. Most of the enlightening and entertaining threads on this forum always have spice. I used to debate with anyone and everyone, but now I will only do so with people whose opinion I place value on and who I feel comfortable that I am able to tear the subject apart without any serious offense be taken - ie, friends.

Lonefox my comment was meant to be humorous, apologies if you didn't see that. Good luck with the back!

LF - it was definitely a joke. Besides, at 17 who didn't have porn mags under the bed, I did and when my parents found them I blamed my brother. :-)

Hope ya get well soon...Oh and try not to take things so personally on here. I did a while back and looking back I was quite foolish on my part.

K I apologize for taking things so seriously, but does anyone know any exercises for reducing back pain. I've been doing the cat stretch and I sorta feel good when doing it.

LoneFox, don't worry. There's nothing to apologise for. The problem is that some of the old farts on this board have histories like old married couples and just like to have a go at each other. The problem is that recent members don't always realise this and get caught in the cross-fire.

Back exercises. I think we'll all be a little cautious about suggesting any because we don't know you full back condition. Example; there are exercises I used to do which I now can't because of a trapped nerve (not even sure if I can run). So I might suggest something but it might turn out to be bad for your particular condition. Maybe just ask your doc.

(Personally I always found the cat stretch felt even more good with an obliging lady underneath me...)

OH TREV, I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU SAID THAT!!!!! *heaving sobs*

LoneFox, I'm going to hop in here a bit late. Where exactly does your back hurt? Lower back? Upper back? Close to your neck? Closer to your tailbone?

As a person who deals with back pain on a frequent basis for the past 15 years, I'll let you know that you can still lead an active life. My problem is that when I was about 15 I grew too fast (about 5-6 inches one year) and it caused my hips to be uneven, not by much but just enough. This causes the last vertebrae to not have a flat place to sit. It will want to sit flat with the hip but then it pulls on the vertebae above it. If it's in alignment with the back I still feel slight pain if I stay in one position for too long. Since my diagnosis I have had 2 kids (yes that I carried and delivered), gone back to school, and even started weight training (my bench is up to 95 pounds. woohoo). The only thing I have to watch out for is standing or sitting for too long and doing repetitive movements one one side without switching sides.

See a doc and listen to his or her recommendations. We really can't tell you your problem or give any real sound advice since very few of us on the board have any real medical experince. Those who do have medical experince (I am not in that category unless you want to consider putting band-aids on scraped knees)wouldn't/shouldn't give advise over the internet since no one on here has met you much less given a proper exam on your back.

Casey

That time of the month again, Matt?

I've located the exact area of pain now, it really isn't spine related its a muscle injury. Now that I've finally located the blasted thing, I can start applying the relief gel at the right spot and know my limitations. Far as I know I can't really get into high impact exercises. Doc recommended low-impact though. Any thoughts?

Yoga, Pilates or a tai chi class. Be sensible, explain your condition to the instructor but also intelligence of your own body to know what is good for the body.

Swimming is also a good low-impact form of exercise. With summer around the corner (unless you live 3 miles from Hades like I do then it's almost always summer) swimming will feel pretty good.

Lone Fox, Pain is weak and stagnate Qi in the body. This means on a traditional level, your dan tian is out of balance.

You may want to look at more traditional therapy, such as Tai Chi to move the stagnation in a non-invasive level as MA training and Chinese food therapy. There are foods that help reduce swelling and alleviate pain. These foods for an injury like this would be bone marrow, broccoli, curries, red pepper, turmeric, beans and add some foods that help with swelling such as cucumber and celery.

If you want to do some herbal patch therapy you can try some Dieda Zhentong Gao, it is inexpensive and can buy online.

Tiao is the action of reordering Qi in the body and therapy for injuries requires you to also look at what emotions are present that are making you hold onto the injury and preventing the healing process. It does take effort ant time, eat well, think well and be well.

"The Qi of the body flows in accordance with the changes in Heaven and Earth."
Nejing Suwen

Thanks, hope you feel better.
Ran Lei

*Sits back with the popcorn*

I just took up nordic walking, with the aim of assisting my posture. Works the arms, shoulders and back wonderfully. I recommend it.

Hey LoneFox, I am glad to here that you have figured out your injury. I am disabled with a back injury and permanent nerve damage and have no feeling in both my feet now. I use to bicycle before I got hurt and my doctor suggested a recumbent bike for me so I picked up a trike that is a recumbent and it works great for me. I am not suggesting a trike for you but maybe some cycling would work for you I use cycle quite a lot and just before I was injured I rode 4,000 mile in 3 months. then I got hurt at work I was crawling to bathroom because of the pain and its been 10 years now and I still deal with a lot of pain but I push myself to try to ride my trike everyday that weather permits and I have lost 20lbs now and lowered my blood pressure. I will be in pain the rest of my life but you learn to deal with it and now that I can ride around I feel a lot better now. I can't lift weights or any thing heavy so this was my best option. If you have a bike or a friend that you can borrow one from to try and see if it works for you that would be best rather than buying something that may not work for you. The only way they found what was wrong with my back was a EMG and a MRI and at that time I had insurance. I had therapy and got worse with every visit and when the doctors would examine me and make bend over and do other things the pain would be so bad that I could not drive home so it was not till the EMG and MRI that they finally stopped making me jump through hoops. Now they just leave me alone and give me my meds and say see you next month. You will bounce back quick at 17 I am 50 now so listen to your doctor and not all the cure alls online when I tell people about my back injury everyone has a cure but not everything work for everyone so don't buy into the fast cures your doctor will take care of you.

Off curse you need yoga exercise and do not hang heavy weight lifting.