Quack, quack, quack...I want my money back!

Posted by: harlan

Quack, quack, quack...I want my money back! - 11/04/08 12:45 PM

Okay...I admit it...I capitulated from the pain...and went seeking relief by trying out the nearest chiropracter. Can you say, 'quack'?

Perhaps I shouldn't be so harsh...but is there anyone on the board with good knowledge of this field...and what is 'standard' treatment?
Posted by: JasonM

Re: Quack, quack, quack...I want my money back! - 11/04/08 01:29 PM

I have never used one but from hearing the people that have they love them....What makes you say they were a quack?
Posted by: harlan

Re: Quack, quack, quack...I want my money back! - 11/04/08 01:40 PM

Might have been the instruments....

I've been to a few over the years, but had one good one that I measure them all against. No back rubbers, no machines, no electronic gadgets...and no talk of 'energy'. She would work her way manually down the entire spine and every vertebrae, and simply...I'd feel great and be pain free for the week. I just kinda took it for granted that is what everybody did...
Posted by: Dereck

Re: Quack, quack, quack...I want my money back! - 11/04/08 01:49 PM

When in my late teens back in the mid 80's I had seen my father's chiropractor. Others I had known with different reasons for going to him all had the exact same thing done to them. Then when my father went in because of pains, which should have been diagnosed has heart pains, this person did not recognize the signs and treated him and sent him on his way. My father did not get far before having a heart attack and laid in his van for hours on the side of the highway until he could get himself to the hospital.

This was a bad chiropractor and left a bad taste in my mouth. I am sure there are good chiropractors out there that provide solid good relief to people. However when I had crushed my C6 and C7 vertebrae, before being diagnosed so many people told me to go to a chiropractor and thankfully I did not. My sports doctor said I would have been worse off and may have caused damage so because of this I stay away. Also a lady in my office was told the same thing by her back surgeon. She ended up having to have surgery from years of problems that chiropractic help did not help.
Posted by: JAMJTX

Re: Quack, quack, quack...I want my money back! - 11/05/08 10:24 AM

I love Chiropractic and o regularly. But I think you have to be careful about who you go ot.
I would only go to a "straight" chiropractor, meaning one that does chiropractic only.
Since starting, my health has dramatically improved and I have not been to Dr in nealy 8 years now.
Posted by: dandjurdjevic

Re: Quack, quack, quack...I want my money back! - 11/05/08 08:52 PM

A good chiropractor will stick to good joint (specifically vertebral) manipulation.

Bad ones will talk about "energy", about "subluxation", about "realigning", about how one of your legs is shorter than the other, about how they will fix your anaemia, blood pressure, liver function and insecurities.

In short, chiropractic comes from a long tradition of quack theory dating back to the early 1900s, but the physical practise of joint manipulation is solid. Occasionally we all get frozen vertebra that don't "move" over each other as they should. A good chiro will "pop" them - in other words, mobilise them (as they should be mobile). The "pop" you hear is usually just the release of gases such as nitrogen caught in the joint.

If your joints were really "dislocated" and awaiting "realignment" by a chiro etc. you'd be in hospital.

A chiro should warm up the region with massage or ultrasound or both before attempting mobilisation.

I went to a chiro years ago because of a stiff neck. He tried to manipulate it (to "realign my energies") when it was clearly heavily inflamed. He ended up tearing the muscles in my neck and I ended up in a brace for weeks (instead of being stiff for a few days).

I've never been game to go to another since, but many friends of mine swear by their favourite chiro. If you find a good one, keep going to him or her.

In as much as they theorise about the flow-on effect, they are partly right; having a stiff back can lead to all sorts of problems, like any "butterfly effect"...
Posted by: JoelM

Re: Quack, quack, quack...I want my money back! - 11/05/08 09:02 PM

Not much of any help, but what I've heard about chiropractors is if you start going to them, you pretty much never stop. That seems to be corroborated in this thread.
Posted by: Dereck

Re: Quack, quack, quack...I want my money back! - 11/06/08 09:12 AM

Joel, I have heard the same things; once a patient always a patient.
Posted by: harlan

Re: Quack, quack, quack...I want my money back! - 11/06/08 09:54 AM

well...some feedback...

After 3 visits my back pain is gone for now. Yeah, I may have to keep going once every two weeks to keep the pain at bay...but regardless of the wacky aspect of this person...at least he does what I tell him. 'Up higher...right there...push that vertebrae.' Unlike the spine specialist I went to this summer who took my money, did nothing, and sent me off to live in pain.

Also on the positive side...this incident prompted me to check back with my regular orthopedic practice...and they now have a spine person...and I've set up an appointment for assessment and MRI.
Posted by: Dereck

Re: Quack, quack, quack...I want my money back! - 11/06/08 11:37 AM

Seeing as you are American Harlan, how much is that going to cost you?
Posted by: harlan

Re: Quack, quack, quack...I want my money back! - 11/06/08 03:10 PM

My current plan allows for 20 visits for back manipulation, from 'in-network' chiropracters, at $15/session. Out of network, ones that do accept the insurance, is $25/session.
Posted by: JAMJTX

Re: Quack, quack, quack...I want my money back! - 11/06/08 03:40 PM

Quote:

Joel, I have heard the same things; once a patient always a patient.




The reason why people never stop going to chiropractors is because of the tremendous health benefits. I go to the chiropractor on a regualr basis for the same reasons I eat, sleap, exercise, take vitamins, etc on a regular basis.
It's a lot cheaper, and better on your body, to go to a chiropractor for regular adjustments then it is too let your body fall to disease, go to a Dr. for surgery and then spend the rest of your life being gouged by drug peddlers.
Posted by: Dereck

Re: Quack, quack, quack...I want my money back! - 11/06/08 04:14 PM

Jamjtx, I'd expect nothing less from a pro-chiropractor person.
Posted by: JAMJTX

Re: Quack, quack, quack...I want my money back! - 11/06/08 04:36 PM

Quote:

My current plan allows for 20 visits for back manipulation, from 'in-network' chiropracters, at $15/session. Out of network, ones that do accept the insurance, is $25/session.




Mine accepts no insurance at all. Except for when he takes an exray, there is no appointment. Just walk-in. He just raised the visits to $18.00
I have never been there for more than about 25 minutes.
Posted by: JAMJTX

Re: Quack, quack, quack...I want my money back! - 11/06/08 04:43 PM

I am pro-chiropractic because the of the results.
I had been to medical doctors on and off for 38 years trying to find out what was wrong with my stomach. They had no clue. One put me on medication that cost me $180/month and caused people to die from heart attacks. I lived on antacids.

I went to the chiropractor after a car accident to have my neck checked out and never needed the antacids again. When my stomach acts up and I feel like I need the antacids on a regular basis I know it's time for an adjustment. A singel adjustment is less than 3 boxes of antacids.

I stopped taking other medications also.

It is the MDs that are quacks and just out to soak you for a quick buck. Plus, doctors kill about 250,000 people every year. I never heard of anyone dying at the hands of a chiropractor.

take a look at malpractice insurance. Millions of $$$ for doctors, a few thousand for chiropractors. There's a good reason for this.
Posted by: Dereck

Re: Quack, quack, quack...I want my money back! - 11/06/08 05:54 PM

Jamjtx, I'm not a big fan of getting any medical attention HOWEVER I would put myself in the hands of a "good" doctor then a "good" chiropractor. And unless you can prove statistics you may wish to refrain from hearsay.

Chiropractors take care of external manipulation and I'm sure they have their fair share of law suits. Doctor and surgeons are dealing with lives and serious problems; more complications can arise from this. And because more people go to doctors and because people sue for anything they can; those in that profession have to have as much coverage as possible.

I have mentioned I have only had one dealing with a chiropractor and it wasn't a good experience. I have dealt with many doctors and surgeons and to be honest I have a lot of bad experiences. However I have a "great" sports doctor that I've been seeing and he is fantastic; I cannot give him enough praise. And the surgeon he works with I have had to use twice with great results.

With anything it is a matter of finding the right person. I will visit my sports doctor for anything of consequences before I visit my family doctor because of results. I also don't feel the need for a chiropractor but if that works for your then I won't tell you different. However in the medical profession chiropractors are not held in as high of regard and there is probably good reason. For one good I'm sure more that aren't; as with doctors.

Kind of think of it like teachers. Anybody can become a teacher but that doesn't mean they are good. In all of the teachers you had there is a gem; the same goes for doctors and chiropractors. Unlike teachers we we can chose our doctors and it is buyer beware and it is up to "us" to find good ones and not settle for bad ones.
Posted by: dandjurdjevic

Re: Quack, quack, quack...I want my money back! - 11/06/08 10:49 PM

If it helps you, go for it.

I suspect though that most people get benefit from chiropractic because they need their vertebra mobilised periodically.

If you wanted to keep them mobile yourself you might practise yoga every day. That would probably be far more effective in mobilising vertebra - to the point where when you went to the chiro there would be virtually nothing to "click" or "pop"; the joints would be like a well-oiled machine.

Something to think about...
Posted by: harlan

Re: Quack, quack, quack...I want my money back! - 11/07/08 07:49 AM

Actually, I initially started bo/kobudo in order to work the spine...for the health benefits as I age. However, while it is a good activity to keep the back flexible and try to increase/maintain core strength...it isn't enough. I can't imagine hours of yoga time having any more benefit than staff work.

Besides...I hate yoga. It's more fun to hit things.
Posted by: dandjurdjevic

Re: Quack, quack, quack...I want my money back! - 11/07/08 08:43 AM

Don't like yoga either - it's hard work.

But since my brother started it he's healthier in the body than he has ever been (even when he was in his 20s).

Nothing in life comes easily, I guess.

Anyway, yoga is all well and fine for maintenance and long term spinal health. I think having your spine mobilised by a chiro or otherwise when you are sore is a good thing (and perhaps necessary).

I was actually speaking about those who go regularly for years because it makes them feel good. I was wondering out loud whether they were actually going instead of doing exercise!
Posted by: Saisho

Re: Quack, quack, quack...I want my money back! - 11/07/08 10:50 PM

Chiropractors are not quacks. Sure, there are some that are, just like there are some surgeons, M.D.s, D.O.s and dentists that are. I have saved several patients from having surgery that their doctor wanted them to have.

Chiropractors are "real doctors" just like M.D.s and D.O.s and actually have more anatomy education than M.D.s. They can provide a lot of benefit. As a Physical Therapist, I am trained in the same techniques that Chiropractors are and I get a lot of benefit with my patients.

I chose to become a PT due to the focus on educating the patient to prevent the condition from returning. In my opinion, Chiropractors focus a lot on fixing the problem but not much on preventing the return of symptoms.

Most bad things you hear about Chiropractors are false and spread by M.D.s and other medical professionals. In fact, it is my understanding that the American Medical Association was found guilty in the U.S. Supreme Court for spreading lies about chiropractic.
Posted by: dandjurdjevic

Re: Quack, quack, quack...I want my money back! - 11/07/08 11:21 PM

Look up the theory behind chiropractic which I believe is still taught. It's origins in the pseudo-scientific theories popular in the late 1800s and early 1900s still affect its teaching and practise today - not with all chrios but with some.

As I say - look up the theory and compare it to proper medicine.

Chiropractic works because it is a hands-on method; it mobilises joints. Even physiotherapists do mobilisation (although they don't specialise in it).

The traditional theory behind chiropractic is however not scientific.