Any Niten Ichi Ryu students here?

Posted by: Anonymous

Any Niten Ichi Ryu students here? - 02/26/05 01:16 PM

I fairly recently started taking a style of Ken-jutsu called Teruo Santo Niten Ichi Ryu. I have heard little of it online beyond the fact that it is rare and has few students outside of Japan, where it isn't all that popular to begin with.

Whenever I find information on any Niten school it always specializes in Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu. I was wondering if there are any students of the style here and if I could get information about the style? I was also wondering if there are any other styles of the Niten Ichi Ryu?
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Any Niten Ichi Ryu students here? - 02/27/05 05:39 AM

I have had the opportunity to train under soke and a senior student at annual seminars organized here in Canada. Like you said, it is rather rare to find training in this art. Where and under who are you studying?

I am aware of other branches of Niten Ichi Ryu, but I have no information at all as to their lineage, claims or techniques.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Any Niten Ichi Ryu students here? - 02/27/05 11:45 PM

I'm studing in the US, in Pennsylvania. And since I don't know about my sensei's feelings about having his name put out around the web, he will remain anonymous.

I kind of lucked out when I joined though, because I wanted to start branching out of kickboxing and I thought ken-jutsu wouldn't be a bad place to start. I would have taken any ryu I could find, but i ended up finding one of the rare styles.

And about our techniques... The class as a whole is small since the students are pretty new and most of them havent been there much longer than me, probably because ken-jutsu isn't the most popular(or practical) of martial arts. I've only been there a couple months (hence the name) but he has taught me a lot. For the most part we are learning how to effectively and safely use one sword until we move on to two. Mostly ive been learning some katas, tandoku and kumitachi. We are even learning some iai kata which I assume is naturally a part of the art. And of course I have learned the kirioroshi. How well i perform it is up to my sensei.

Even though I am not familiar to ken-jutsu as a whole outside of my ryu, it seems as if he knows what he is talking about. Hell, if he can batto and noto with a live blade and not lose fingers, he probably does.

What branch of the Niten Ichi Ryu do you train under? Can I assume it is hyoho, since it is the TKD of Niten?
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Any Niten Ichi Ryu students here? - 02/28/05 04:40 AM

Would that person be Raymond Sosnowski? He is the only one I know of that is giving classes in Niten Ichi Ryu in the US who learned from Imai and Iwami soke. There might be others though, although no one around here actually has any teaching licenses, we just pass down what Imai and Iwami soke tell us.

As far as I know, Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu under Imai and Iwami soke is Santo-ha niten ichi ryu (according to an <a href="http://www.ifh.ee.ethz.ch/~ballisti/iaido/interview-Haruna.html"> interview</a> with Haruna Matsuo.

And considering the insanely low number of people who practice the art, it certainly isn't the TKD of anything at all. On top of that, I have not seen anything about any other lines of Niten Ichi Ryu getting taught around here, so most likely you're studying under someone who's connected to Imai soke somehow. Or, although it's sad to say, someone who's connected to videos and books. Due to the popularity of such arts, there are a number of people "teaching" Niten Ichi Ryu without ever having learned it themselves, so it's important to know where your teacher comes from.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Any Niten Ichi Ryu students here? - 02/28/05 07:49 AM

No, no, no. Did you forget that he teaches Teruo Santo Niten Ichi Ryu, and not Hyoho? When I made the TKD comment is was reffering to the fact that Hyoho is the most popular of the Niten style, just like TKD is the most popular MA in the US. I also have no idea who Sosnowski is.

I could just ask my sensei tomorrow when I take one of his lessons about who taught him. I am also pretty sure that my sensei said while we were getting changed that there were other branches of the Niten style, and that while Hyoho is the most popular, it doesn't make it the best.
Posted by: Charles Mahan

Re: Any Niten Ichi Ryu students here? - 02/28/05 08:13 AM

Well it certainly throws up flags. I've never heard of anyone teaching Niten Ichi Ryu aside from Sosnowski, and I've never heard of Teruo Santo, a name which sounds a little off to my addimtedly less than authoritative ear.

It's worth doing so more research. You could try contacting Hyakutake Collin over at http://www.e-budo via private message. While he is an exponent of Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu, he trains directly under the soke of that ryu-ha. He should at least be able to tell you if Teruo Santo is a legitimate offshoot of the true line or a McDojo.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Any Niten Ichi Ryu students here? - 02/28/05 09:20 AM

There's no need to get curt, n00b. I did not forget anything, in fact, the page still has everything you wrote. Amazing, huh?

The 5th through 7th headmasters of Imai soke's lineage are all named Santo (Santo Hikozaemon Kiyoaki, Santo Hanbei Kiyoaki and Santo Shinjuro Kiyotake). The 2nd and 3rd were named Terao (and another Terao brother had transmission of the art, but I don't know what came of it). Imai soke's line has been called Santo-ha, as far as I know. From all this, I've always thought "Teruo Santo" was a mishmash of two names and the actual line referred to was Santo-ha, hence Imai soke's line. Since you're so adamant about dissociating yourself from that lineage, I suppose there was a branch during the Santo period and someone named Santo Teruo led one line.

Your TKD comment sounded and felt dismissive. I do not call an art with some 30 registered students "popular". Your comment that "while Hyoho is the most popular, it doesn't make it the best" sounds absolutely ridiculous to me. I've never said anything about comparing branches, I have no idea how you could ever say which is "best", and I see no reason to even talk about such a thing. We don't fight with swords anymore, we preserve a tradition.

At any rate, I have no info at all on Teruo Santo Niten Ichi Ryu. If I had a clue on how to write "Teruo Santo" in Japanese, I could do some research. As it is, a search for it in english brings up this thread, another discussion thread on another forum (no info there either), and one dojo in Pennsylvania. I can check in some references I have at home, I might have a lineage for the line (but not much more).

Charles, I wouldn't be concerned about the name. I found 84 matches for Teruo in a name dictionary. Although it also sounds strange to my ears, seems like it's a perfectly fine name.

Of course, with 84 ways to write it, and 13 ways of writing Santo, I only have to try 1092 combinations to find some info in Japanese about Teruo Santo Niten Ichi Ryu [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Any Niten Ichi Ryu students here? - 02/28/05 11:12 PM

didnt mean to offend u in anyway splice, and sorry about the TKD comment.

also, just to let you know, i dont know **** about japanese sword arts including their history beyond what my sensei says in class, and he only gives us some info here and there due to time constraints. mostly he teaches technique, which is what i expected. most of my martial arts career has been spent in a boxing/kickboxing/wrestling gym.

and while YOU may not plan on using what you are learning, i at least want an effective weapon to use in the off chance someone breaks into my house (happened once, almost twice, and im still young). i doubt that most burglars enter into peoples houses unarmed, but i refuse to use guns for the mere fact that i feel dirty when i even look at them. its doubtful that a burglar has any sword training, but i at least wanna be able to use the sword without accidentally killing myself or my family. i just want an equalizer.

since niten ichi ryu is so rare, what ryus of kenjutsu would be easier to find if i wanted information or instruction? and charles, what ryu do you train under?

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Posted by: Zeal

Re: Any Niten Ichi Ryu students here? - 03/01/05 08:05 AM

Its not necessarily about choosing a style and studying it, more about studying what is available to you. Good instruction in Koryu Kenjutsu is hard to come by.

Splice are you over in Guelph? I am thinking about coming over in May for the seminar, depending on funds.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Any Niten Ichi Ryu students here? - 03/01/05 09:14 AM

I actually am in Ottawa, but we have a close connection to the Guelph folks. It's all one big family around here. I will be attending the seminar for sure, can't miss the third one after I've been to the first two. Definitely worth the trip.

n00b, all the more power to you then. I hope that you reconsider that home defense with katana idea. That, or make sure you have extra wide hallways and high ceilings. And a good lawyer.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Any Niten Ichi Ryu students here? - 03/09/05 05:01 PM

Lucky you kenjutsu n00b.

I only have access to a small Iaido club and a good (in my opinion) Aikido club (Takemusu - Iwama syle).

I am reasonbly competent with a sword and bokken and have a decent grounding in Aikido and some other arts and would like to find some good, documented kata and forms for the Niten Ichi Ryu style. I have a practice wakazashi and bokken at home to practice with and would like to know how to use them togther. So if anyone can recommend a decent website or book that would be cool.

Thanks lads,

p.s. I'm new to the forum, but I have read a fair amount of posts already so I'm not completely ignorant [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]
Some of these 'points of view' are ... interesting.

[This message has been edited by Wind on Water (edited 03-09-2005).]
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Any Niten Ichi Ryu students here? - 03/10/05 12:25 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Wind on Water:
Lucky you kenjutsu n00b.

I only have access to a small Iaido club and a good (in my opinion) Aikido club (Takemusu - Iwama syle).

I am reasonbly competent with a sword and bokken and have a decent grounding in Aikido and some other arts and would like to find some good, documented kata and forms for the Niten Ichi Ryu style. I have a practice wakazashi and bokken at home to practice with and would like to know how to use them togther. So if anyone can recommend a decent website or book that would be cool.

Thanks lads,

p.s. I'm new to the forum, but I have read a fair amount of posts already so I'm not completely ignorant [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]
Some of these 'points of view' are ... interesting.

[This message has been edited by Wind on Water (edited 03-09-2005).]
[/QUOTE]

As far as I was able to tell from lessons and online resources, most schools of kenjutsu teach the use of the daito(katana) and shoto(wakizashi) to some degree. It is just that the main focus on using one sword, mainly the daito. If you want to learn to use two swords, then the Niten Ichi Ryu is for you.

For documentation, I suggest just doing a http://www.google.com search. You are bound to find at least a few dozen sites. Oooo!!! I just remembered about:
http://www.nitenryu.org

Try that first then do the google search, and I can tell you that you are most likely gonna find info for Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu.

[This message has been edited by kenjutsu n00b (edited 03-10-2005).]
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Any Niten Ichi Ryu students here? - 03/10/05 12:48 AM

Ha! A lot of the "points of view" you were talking about make me shake my head sometimes. Pointless arguments, ridiculous questions, asinine or disrespectful answers, bragging of kyu/dan grade that cant be substantiated, and more all plague this site... But I still like to check out some of the threads in the morning. Also, some of the above can be entertaining when you are not involved in the stupidity. On the plus side, some of the info you can get on this site is really good, including the links to legitimate martial arts websites.

[This message has been edited by kenjutsu n00b (edited 03-10-2005).]

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Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Any Niten Ichi Ryu students here? - 03/10/05 01:25 AM

Thanks for the site.

I guess I'm probably going to have to invest in a book or a plane ticket though....

I have sifted through a few interesting, but nonetheless, unhelpful websites. I will keep at it methinks, perhaps I will find something...

I always find it interesting to see what people have to say. I do not condemn anyones opinion - as it is 'right' for them but through dialogue an understanding can be reached which helps both participants. like it is said:
"That which can be expressed in words is not the way" or something like that
And yes you are right, some of the posts are very informative and I give thanks to the people who take the time to help. There has been some funny arguments though - good value. Let me know if you find any excercises on the web, cheers dude.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Any Niten Ichi Ryu students here? - 04/03/05 05:31 AM

Just thought I would update anyone interested. Here is a link
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Pagoda/8187/Nito.htm

to a basic instruction ( a little confusing, but ok)
Posted by: Zeal

Re: Any Niten Ichi Ryu students here? - 04/03/05 11:21 AM

Just to clarify, that isn't instruction, those are training notes for people who have learned the techniques already.

Musashi says over and over again in Go Rin No Sho that it is an oral tradition. Books, websites whatever are only useful to jog the memory.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Any Niten Ichi Ryu students here? - 04/12/05 11:18 PM

Where's Hyakutake when you need him?
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Any Niten Ichi Ryu students here? - 04/12/05 11:24 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kenjutsu n00b:
As far as I was able to tell from lessons and online resources, most schools of kenjutsu teach the use of the daito(katana) and shoto(wakizashi) to some degree. It is just that the main focus on using one sword, mainly the daito. If you want to learn to use two swords, then the Niten Ichi Ryu is for you.[/QUOTE]

There are other ryuha that teach you how to do nito waza apart from Niten Ichi-ryu. There is also Shingyoto-ryu, Araki-ryu, Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto-ryu, and some other koryu that do so as well.

To paraphrase a quote from Hyakutake, who trains in Hyoho Niten Ichi-ryu under Imai Masayuki, Niten Ichi-ryu is a one sword school that also trains in double sword techniques.

Respect.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Any Niten Ichi Ryu students here? - 04/13/05 01:28 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gunyo Kogusoku:
There are other ryuha that teach you how to do nito waza apart from Niten Ichi-ryu. There is also Shingyoto-ryu, Araki-ryu, Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto-ryu, and some other koryu that do so as well.

To paraphrase a quote from Hyakutake, who trains in Hyoho Niten Ichi-ryu under Imai Masayuki, Niten Ichi-ryu is a one sword school that also trains in double sword techniques.

Respect.
[/QUOTE]

Gotcha [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG] Maybe I misinterpreted my instructors words. *shrugs* I do understand the last sentence you typed since we have been going exclusively with one sword at a time so far, and he says we won't be learning how to use the wakizashi until much later on. *shrugs again*


[This message has been edited by kenjutsu n00b (edited 04-13-2005).]
Posted by: Charles Mahan

Re: Any Niten Ichi Ryu students here? - 04/14/05 10:58 PM

Bump.

Don't feed the trolls. What a pathetic life these guys lead.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Any Niten Ichi Ryu students here? - 04/15/05 06:57 PM

Yes I am a student of Hyoho Niten Ichiryu.

Its news to me that we have ha (branches). There is long handing down of knowledge like a full cup from one Soke to the next chosen three people. The one with the fullest cup (hopefully completely full) becomes the next successor.

The next successor receives certain old documentation (scrolls) and Musashi's Bokuto. Also records of succession have been kept over the generations by a well know shrine. This is the old way of keeping records at shrines and temples. Nowadays its done by City/Prefectural Halls.

None of this is some well kept secret. Such things are publicised in the Japanese newspapers.
http://www.hyoho.com/inuag.html

Its seems that opinions are sometimes formed on a lack of knowledge which allows the "also rans" to further their cause.

It is a fact that older Soke including the present have taught people to a certain extent that have chose to go their own way. That's where some of the Ha comes from. But there has always been a deliberate practice of only teaching one person everything to ensure a smooth succession.

There have always been and always will be the human egotistic element that see's someone branch off to do thier own thing. The associations dont help either. If you cant be a leader in one association you can always join another?

But when alls said and done its not our place to alienate other groups but to try and embrace them back into the fold.

As mentioned its a one sword school (Itto seiho that has Nito seiho and other techniques with other weapons.

Rayamond Sosnowski is one of the members but perhaps rightly so would wish to remain anonymous. We are seriously trying to work on a Dosokai basis (everyones a student) and avoid any ego trippers.

Forty years of Budo has taught me that the most enjoyeable place in the Dojo is as a student. Enough silly certificates to wallpaper with, but learning something new is far more exhilerating.

As Musashi said "Live every day as if there is a fire burning in your head".
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Any Niten Ichi Ryu students here? - 04/16/05 08:49 AM

Colin,

Thanks for the reply. I'm back in Japan for the whole month of April for keiko. Mainly staying in the Kanto plains.

I will be coming back to Japan again in July and will be knocking around Kyushu for a week.

-Steve D

[This message has been edited by Gunyo Kogusoku (edited 04-16-2005).]