prefered blades
Posted by: Anonymous
prefered blades - 12/07/04 10:37 PM
I have been training with a katana for quite some time now and i found it was the most effective blade for me, but i was pondering, what types of swords do you perfer.
and please do Not talk about the reversed blade. I don't care if it's real or not.
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: prefered blades - 12/07/04 10:59 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by NeoSaturn:
I have been training with a katana for quite some time now and i found it was the most effective blade for me, but i was pondering, what types of swords do you perfer.
and please do Not talk about the reversed blade. I don't care if it's real or not.[/QUOTE]
European basket-hilted broadswords and backswords, and the Filipino talibong.
The gladius is pretty bada$$ too.
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: prefered blades - 12/08/04 11:20 PM
I preffer a daito. Mine is about 45" long. It requires practice but it compensates with reach and cutting power. My wife favors small swords like the chisagatana which is a bit longer than the standard wakisashi. She is very fast with it thus, compensating for its lack of power.
C. Roman
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: prefered blades - 12/09/04 12:49 AM
I finally mustered the materials to make this one. I've had the design for awhile. Mainly Japanese in design, with a few Chinese influences. It's so sharp I can shove it through a car door, lol. Cuts really nice for a straight blade, plus it has a good thrust advantage on a normal katana. Took me a week to make finish it. Check it out:
[IMG]http://www.smacknuts.com/upload/Sword.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SifuSkyler:
Cuts really nice for a straight blade, plus it has a good thrust advantage on a normal katana. [/QUOTE]
Could you explain exactly what you mean by it having a good thrust advantage over a "normal" katana.
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: prefered blades - 12/09/04 12:16 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Charles Mahan:
Could you explain exactly what you mean by it having a good thrust advantage over a "normal" katana.[/QUOTE]
It's really just a post-cut physics difference. Something that never comes into play in practice anyway. A curved blade gets stuck easier and is harder to pull from an impale than a straight one. They both penetrate about the same, but when facing my opponent, if I have to stab instead of cut, I don't want to be stuck in his range any longer than I have to. Just a subtle difference I noticed. Plus I just like the handling of a straight sword better than a curved one (probably because I trained a lot with a Tai Chi sword).
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: prefered blades - 12/10/04 11:12 AM
You only need couple inches of the tip to stab and do damage. You've heard (or maybe seen if you were unfortunate to witness a stabbing) of a knife stabbing someone and killing them. A knife is short and if only a few inches of it goes into the body and injures or kills them, then there's no need to stick a whole sword through a body. If 3 or 2 inches of a tip of a sword stabs into a body, it's not that hard to pull out regardless if it's Katana or Chinese Jian. You don't need to push the whole length of the blade into the body out the otherside to hurt or kill someone. That's just for movies to show the audience, yeah he's stabbed.
[This message has been edited by Walter Wong (edited 12-10-2004).]
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: prefered blades - 12/10/04 11:45 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Walter Wong:
You only need couple inches of the tip to stab and do damage. You've heard (or maybe seen if you were unfortunate to witness a stabbing) of a knife stabbing someone and killing them. A knife is short and if only a few inches of it goes into the body and injures or kills them, then there's no need to stick a whole sword through a body. If 3 or 2 inches of a tip of a sword stabs into a body, it's not that hard to pull out regardless if it's Katana or Chinese Jian. You don't need to push the whole length of the blade into the body out the otherside to hurt or kill someone. That's just for movies to show the audience, yeah he's stabbed.
[This message has been edited by Walter Wong (edited 12-10-2004).][/QUOTE]
I agree that a few inches is all you need, but things don't always go as planned. What if they keep advancing onto your blade and send a nice horizontal cut to the side of your neck? Your only defense has been spent (it's imbedded in your opponent). You are now officially screwed. It mainly has to do with bone lock. Often, you will lodge your sword in a rib or what not, and have to yank it out. A straight blade makes this far easier. Like I said before, "Just a post cut physics difference." Take a straight sword and shove it through a car door and pull it out. Take a curved one and do the same. You will see what I mean.
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: prefered blades - 12/10/04 12:30 PM
I see what you mean. A straighter blade would make it easier to pull out if you happened to shoved your blade in that far by chance of things not going your way. But either Katana or Jian stabbed that far in or stuck in the opponent's bone, yanking the sword back to pull it out would likely pull them closer to you. Unless you kick their body away as your pull your sword. Just becareful not to slice your leg or extremities while doing so. With a Katana I would pull back not straight but turning my body to follow the curve of the blade. For pulling straight back it makes sense with a Jian or a blade that is straight. Whether the blade is straight or curved your body movements have to accommedate the weapon's shape and structure to find the most efficient way.
Stabbing a car door I don't think would give the feeling of stabbing a person.
[This message has been edited by Walter Wong (edited 12-10-2004).]
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: prefered blades - 12/10/04 12:59 PM
Might simulate being attacked by C-3P0... [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]
Oh, and to keep it on topic -
Big fan of the katana, (it just feels right),
but I love the wakisashi and gladius, as well. (I like the 1 hand use). And after fencing sabre in college I developed a healthy affection for the rapier also.
[This message has been edited by Karateguy (edited 12-10-2004).]
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: prefered blades - 12/10/04 02:55 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Karateguy:
Might simulate being attacked by C-3P0... [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]
[/QUOTE]
Then you use a lightsaber. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/tongue.gif[/IMG]
[This message has been edited by Walter Wong (edited 12-10-2004).]
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: prefered blades - 12/10/04 03:07 PM
LOL!! That's awesome. Good humor to start the weekend. Arigato.
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: prefered blades - 12/11/04 01:12 PM
For a long time I preferred the Katana over anything. But a few months ago one of my friends started training in Lohan Kung Fu. I had always been involved with Japanese arts, so my knowlege was wider in that area. He had seen my skill with Escrima sticks and suggested I tried twin broadswords. I must say, I picked them up pretty quick, and now I love them. I still love the Katana, but the broadswords are right behind it in terms of my personal preference.
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: prefered blades - 12/11/04 03:11 PM
I like the Chinese dao blade, preferably with spikes on the bastard edge (sharp part on the back of a saber). The katana has never done anything for me, it's just too popular.
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: prefered blades - 12/11/04 04:02 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Walter Wong:
With a Katana I would pull back not straight but turning my body to follow the curve of the blade. For pulling straight back it makes sense with a Jian or a blade that is straight. Whether the blade is straight or curved your body movements have to accommedate the weapon's shape and structure to find the most efficient way. [/QUOTE]
But in the panic of battle, your methodical circular withdrawl would become a far larger motor movement, much more of a yank. Besides, the shortest distance between two points will always be a straight line.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Walter Wong:
Stabbing a car door I don't think would give the feeling of stabbing a person. [/QUOTE]
No, but it gives a good demonstration of blade catch dynamics. Prepare for the worst, you know? Cutting bamboo rolls isn't like cutting a person either, but it still shows the dynamics of your cut.
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: prefered blades - 01/10/05 08:20 PM
No matter what anybody says, i still love katanas.
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: prefered blades - 01/13/05 11:23 AM
Ok, i know this is off topic, but I've got a question for you all. As of now, i don't formally learn any sword arts or martial arts, but hopefully that will change. My first choice would be to learn a two-weapon style, but I have no idea how to even research where i could find such a place. My current decision, after deciding the other was not feasible, is to either take a sword art AND a martial art, or a combined style, one in which you learn unarmed and then focus on the blade. Any suggestions on what to do/what i should take?
Thanks a bunch, i really do appreciate any insight
Unless you are willing to drop everything and move, or happen to live in Seattle, it doesn't really work that way. There is very little genuine sword instruction to be had in the US. Prospective students usually have access to only one or two dojos if they are lucky enough to have any access at all. In the entire DFW metroplex, there is only 1 or two dojos, that are koryu sword art dojos.
Generally the advice is to find out what's available in your area and then try to decide if they are for you or not.
[This message has been edited by Charles Mahan (edited 01-13-2005).]
Posted by: Amos Smith
Re: prefered blades - 01/13/05 12:55 PM
Dokudo
12th day, 5th month, 1645
Shinmen Musashi Genshin
15) I do not have any special tastes in weapons and armor.
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: prefered blades - 01/13/05 05:42 PM
Charles is right, the only certified American Niten-Ryu (dual katana) school is in Seattle. However, you might have better luck finding a kung-fu school that teaches double dao fighting techniques. Aside from that, I don't know of any style that uses two full length swords.
The only Niten Ichi Ryu school I know of is in Guelp, Ontario. Seattle does have 5 or 6 very highly ranked koryu instructors teaching as many different styles though. It's a veritable budo buffet.
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: prefered blades - 01/14/05 07:51 AM
Not all Kung Fu schools teach double dao as a regular curricullum. I train Kung Fu as well, and mostly I've only learned single dao. Even with Kung Fu there is alot of differences among schools and sometimes even differences of 2 different schools of the same style.
Just look around. If Kung Fu is what you want to do, check out the school and inquire bout double dao/broadsword/saber. Just in Kung Fu you still have to learn the unarmed skills still. And you won't get to hold a weapon yet.
[This message has been edited by Walter Wong (edited 01-14-2005).]
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: prefered blades - 01/14/05 05:32 PM
Thank you guys for all the insight. I'll see what's around. I was just reading the string and saw alot of you mention a few different styles and thought I'd find out where you trained in them. Just out of curiosity, why ARE there so many schools in Seattle?
Thanks again
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: prefered blades - 01/18/05 07:03 AM
I like blades that are bigger than daggers but shorter than regular sized samurai swords It's also Strong and light so it's easy to carry and move. I like it also because im taking jujitsu and were using them right now.
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: prefered blades - 01/18/05 09:16 PM
I like japanese swords with their curved blades and such, but that one side bladed just isn't my style.
supposing you slash at someone and miss, in order to follow through with another slash, you'd either have to twirl around like a pansy and leave yourself wide open, or reverse your grip and change your swinging direction. I can't say that I've ever dualed and encountered this problem, but I'd imagine that those few seconds would give anyone with a pulse enough time to stick you with his sword.
I like the Bastard Sword myself. Most likely because it is strong and so am I, and its bladed on both sides so you can swing it every which way. I also just like the fact that even if you don't cut the
b@$t@rd you're fighting, you still bludgeon the crap out of him when you hit him. You know, supposing he's armored or you hit him with the flat of the blade.
There are a lot of options for a cut that does not make contact. Especially if you cut like we learn in MJER. Since we generally only cut just passed our opponents body, bringing the tip back up for a thrust is VERY easy. Any sword art worth it's salt will have contingencies for what to do if your opponent manages to get out of the way.
And if you think it takes a long time to turn a sword over and reverse the path of a cut, you really need to get over to the Shinkendo website and check out the demo video.
http://www.shinkendo.com [This message has been edited by Charles Mahan (edited 01-18-2005).]
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: prefered blades - 01/18/05 10:13 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by godslayer:
I like japanese swords with their curved blades and such, but that one side bladed just isn't my style.
supposing you slash at someone and miss, in order to follow through with another slash, you'd either have to twirl around like a pansy and leave yourself wide open, or reverse your grip and change your swinging direction. I can't say that I've ever dualed and encountered this problem, but I'd imagine that those few seconds would give anyone with a pulse enough time to stick you with his sword.
I like the Bastard Sword myself. Most likely because it is strong and so am I, and its bladed on both sides so you can swing it every which way. I also just like the fact that even if you don't cut the b@$t@rd you're fighting, you still bludgeon the crap out of him when you hit him. You know, supposing he's armored or you hit him with the flat of the blade. [/QUOTE]
if you swing a katana and miss your target it is a simple matter of twisting your wrist and swinging back.
And you said you like to swing every which way, well the japanese belived that swift and proper technique could win over brute strength any day, so that could have been a facor in making the katana single edged. To rely on one's technique, one must be able to focus. and using a dual side sword breeds carlesssness to some extent, but whatever works for you, works for you.
[This message has been edited by NeoSaturn (edited 01-18-2005).]
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: prefered blades - 01/18/05 10:33 PM
Woa woa... Back up. There are dual katana schools? And in Seattle? You guys know of any in Bellevue?
Actually, for that matter do you guys know of any Iaido schools in Bellevue?
[This message has been edited by Skye (edited 01-18-2005).]
There are a couple of arts which have techniques which involve wielding a katana and a wakizashi simultaneously, but they are few and far between.
Which Bellevue, what state?
Posted by: Amos Smith
Re: prefered blades - 01/19/05 09:52 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Charles Mahan:
There are a couple of arts which have techniques which involve wielding a katana and a wakizashi simultaneously, but they are few and far between.[/QUOTE]
Tenshin-ryu is one of those arts and I think there is an instructor in Seattle...but I don't think he's accepting students. Might be worth searching.
Good luck.
Amos
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: prefered blades - 01/27/05 04:03 AM
This is going back a bit but when you stab someone it actually creates a vacuum and when the blade goes all the way through the vacuum is destroyed. It's not just a hollywood thing in movies to push the blade all the way through.
By the way my two favourite swords are the Chinese Wu Jian (military straight sword) and Wen Jian (scholar's straight sword).
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: prefered blades - 01/27/05 05:02 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by shaolin_pete:
This is going back a bit but when you stab someone it actually creates a vacuum and when the blade goes all the way through the vacuum is destroyed. It's not just a hollywood thing in movies to push the blade all the way through.[/QUOTE]
What are your sources for this claim?
Ancient sources (Flavius Renatus Vegetius), Renaissance sources (Giacomo di Grassi; et al), and Modern sources (Lt Col A.J. Drexel Biddle; John Styers) all concur that 2-3 inches of penetration (depending on the target) is all that is needed for a successful thrust.
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: prefered blades - 01/27/05 08:22 PM
The vacuum created is not that powerful, but it does make it harder to pull the blade out. You can make a successful thrust with a small blade, in fact it might even be slightly easier as not as much of a vacuum is created. My point was just that pushing a blade all the way through someone is not just a holly wood thing so it looks good, it does have a basis in practicality (however there are other techniques to remove the vacuum).
My source was a book called Northern Shaolin Sword by Doctor Yang, Jwing Ming. He is a sword practicioner and has a degree in physics.
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: prefered blades - 01/27/05 09:17 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by shaolin_pete:
My source was a book called Northern Shaolin Sword by Doctor Yang, Jwing Ming. He is a sword practicioner and has a degree in physics.[/QUOTE]
So, we have Dr. Yang's opinion vs. the opinions of several noted authories from throughout history. I'm therefore inclined to be skeptical of Dr. Yang in this case, physics degree notwithstanding.
Vegetius was describing Roman practice, and no offense to Dr. Yang, but I tend to place more credence in what Roman legionaries actually did in combat, as opposed to what some modern kung-fu guy claims.
Likewise, di Grassi was a maestro from the 16th century, when the sword was still a viable primary and secondary weapon in war, as well as in civilian self-defense.
And Biddle and Styers taught marines who actually used their techniques in battle.
[QUOTE]The vacuum created is not that powerful, but it does make it harder to pull the blade out. You can make a successful thrust with a small blade, in fact it might even be slightly easier as not as much of a vacuum is created.[/QUOTE]
You can make a successful thrust with a large blade too.
[QUOTE] My point was just that pushing a blade all the way through someone is not just a holly wood thing so it looks good, it does have a basis in practicality (however there are other techniques to remove the vacuum).[/QUOTE]
Actually, pushing the blade all the way through is not practical, since it ties up your weapon. This is clearly most dangerous in a melee (skirmish, battle, etc), but it also is potentially risky in single combat. A proper thrust should be followed by instant recovery, so the deep thrust you describe doesn't make much sense.
[This message has been edited by Armed_Man_Piker (edited 01-27-2005).]
It's not really an issue of vacuum so much as it is an issue of friction. The deeper you go the more friction there will be. In MJER getting the blade stuck is a real concern. I am not aware of a tsuki within our system which is meant to go all the way through, except for a tsuki to the neck which is meant to slide in just to one side of the esophagus and then cut through all the way to slide just to the side of the spine cutting an awful lot of stuff on the way through. I suspect that with the neck being somewhat smaller, extraction would be less difficult.
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: prefered blades - 01/28/05 01:38 PM
In fencing, at least, we are taught to stab quick and hard, but recover as soon as your hit lands. If you do happen to miss, you will need to get out of there fast. Even if your attack does land, stabbing all the way through takes more time, requires you to be closer (thus makes you more open to attack), and is harder to recover from (which makes you more vulnerable to the guy's comrades).
[This message has been edited by Benjamin1986 (edited 01-28-2005).]