Self-Teaching...

Excuse me for asking, but I am 14 years old, unemployed, and very poor, because i cannot afford to enroll in a kendo or kenjitsu class, I was curious as to any methods to teach myself. I already know that it will be a long road to become good in anyway, and I am willing to sacrifice anything to become a swordsman. Also, if any of you know of a swordsman who will teach me near Fullerton, California for little or no money, I'd be delighted to hear from you.

Until then,
The Ronin Otaku

Ps: Also keep in mind that books and videos are also out of my price range.

[This message has been edited by RoninOtaku (edited 09-13-2004).]

How do you propose to teach anyone something you don't know, let alone yourself?

Ronin

Since you say your willing to "to sacrifice anything t become a swordsman"

I would ask you to consider a couple of options.

1-If you have a dojo in the area I would contact the teacher and explain your situation, ask if he/she needs any help around the dojo that you could do in exchange for lessons.

One of my buddies has some guys in his class that do basic clean up and other duties in exchange for lessons.

(course one of them has a good job he just likes to barter services whenever he can.)

2- You might see what jobs a 14 year kid can get in your area--I don't know specifics of where your located.

If you want something bad enough and are willing to work hard for it--things often have a way of working out.

Good Luck!

[This message has been edited by cxt (edited 09-13-2004).]

cxt, thank you for the advice, I'm sure it will help me in some way. Oh, and Mahan-san, and as for how to teach myself with no experience, well, nothing like learning from gaining real experiance...no?

I tauaght myself in bo and in katanas and i'm just as good as my friend who took tai chi and majored in bo staffs.

Ronin... How do you propose to gain "real experience"? Where do you propose to engage in swordfights? How many swordsman do you think you need to kill in order to determine that a particular idea works?

Well, real experiance is almost impossible to gain in the world today unless I fight with people who are obviously better than me because they were taught a style that was tested and perfected. But what about the person who made that style in the first place? Where did they perfect it? Perhaps by using life experiances to set ethics and diciplinaries for that style, for me, experiance and the like are not important, it's your drive and will that decides the outcome of a match, the body may fall, but the will can drive on forever. If I focus on driving forward, I can gain experiance by unlocking hidden energy that can push me forward, even if I am outmatched.

[QUOTE]But what about the person who made that style in the first place? Where did they perfect it?[/QUOTE]

On the battle feild.

[QUOTE]it's your drive and will that decides the outcome of a match, the body may fall, but the will can drive on forever.[/QUOTE]

Not in a sword fight.

[QUOTE]If I focus on driving forward, I can gain experiance by unlocking hidden energy that can push me forward, even if I am outmatched.[/QUOTE]

Unlocking hidden energy? How will this help you against a trained fighter in any style?

Why is it that so many people want to reinvent the wheel? Even if you are able to develop your own style of sword fighting you will not be alive long enough to see it in an effective form. In order to teach your self you need trial and error. That means with live blades and intent to kill. You would need to figure out what foot work, stances, body positions, angle of attack, direction of attack and what way to hold the sword will be best for your survival. You will need to figure out proper ways of deflection. You will need to figure out what defenses work against each attack. You will need to teach yourself timing, distance, body mechanics and human nature. Since everyone is different you will need several fight with several types of opponents and decades of practice in order to even get the BASIS of your sword art or to teach yourself.

Or you could find an instructor of a legitimate sword art that has hundreds of years of testing and actual combat use to back it up. It will still take years to learn but at least it will be spent on learning something that works and not trial and error that has already been done.

There is more to sword arts than tricks.

There is a fundamental issue you are missing with regards to starting your own style. It's evident in this quote:
[QUOTE]Well, real experiance is almost impossible to gain in the world today unless I fight with people who are obviously better than me because they were taught a style that was tested and perfected. But what about the person who made that style in the first place? Where did they perfect it?[/QUOTE]

First and foremost nobody trained in a legitimate style of sword play will engage in a fight with you. Nobody wants to go to jail for killing you.

As for the people who founded styles that have survived for generations and in some cases hundreds of years, you are nothing like them, and today is nothing like the time they lived in. Lets take the founder of Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu for example. Hayashizaki Jinsuke Minamoto Shigenobu's father was killed. He decided to seek vengence on the person who killed him. The problem was his fathers killer was a very skilled swordsman and Hayashizaki new he would not be able to kill him in a duel. So he went away and devised means of intitating a cut while his sword was still in the scabbard. He trained very hard and one day got his revenge. He lived to further refine the techniques and pass them on to the next generation. The next generation refined and expanded the techniques and lived to pass it on.

See where I'm going with this? History is littered with folks who "started their own style" but didn't survive to pass it on to another generation. Well ok, history is probably not littered with these folks, because they are mostly not deemed important enough to keep track of. They are sword art evolutionary dead ends. The sword arts that survived did so because they worked. This crucible no longer exists.

So back to the question. How do you propose to gain "real experience"? How do you propose to see if anything you make up will work? Are you willing to stake your life on it? The folks who founded and revised the koryu arts were willing to stake their lives on their arts. So were the generations who followed.

RoninOtaku:
Are you by any chance connected to TheOtaku.com ? If so, I would venture a guess that you are an Anime/Kenshin wannabe.

Looking back at the posts on the Hiten Mitsurugi thread, I'm seeing a striking resemblance to Ronin_Samurai88 (or something close to that). I would venture another guess that you are the same person with a different username. If so, it would confirm my suspicions.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Foolsgold:
Looking back at the posts on the Hiten Mitsurugi thread, I'm seeing a striking resemblance to Ronin_Samurai88 (or something close to that). I would venture another guess that you are the same person with a different username. If so, it would confirm my suspicions.[/QUOTE]

No, I am not, this is the only thread I have replied in as far as I can remember, so you are mistaken

Alright, I probably assumed too much anyways. From now on I'll take you at face value. Sorry about the "inspection", I was a bit harsh.

It was right for you to follow through with your suspicions. Thank you for doing so, live and learn, no?

Since I'm obviously in over my head at the moment anyway, would you mind telling me what otaku means?

the term Otaku literally means House, but it's also used to describe a anime fanatic, since a anime fanatic, spends all their time in their house. Get it?

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Otaku

Not a way someone in Japan would want to refer to themselves.

Unless they were a hardcore anime fan. Similar to the way the Geek Nation are proud of being geeks, but most Americans don't wanna be called a geek.

My only experience with the term while in Japan was on the negative side but i'm sure there are some that are proud of it.

That is true, since the common sterotype of a Otaku is someone with thick glasses, overweight, perverted, single, a virgin, and is usually very cold and secretive, however most Otakus I've met are good natured people.

Well, RoninOtaku, you remind me of myself about 20 yrs ago. My sugestion to you is, look hard for training, get a job (regardless of size) and buy your materials. My 1st Instructor kinda took me in as his "adoptive" son because he had no children of his own and he was getting old. He taught me for 9yrs, I learned much from him. I used to work around his house/dojo doing chores for him. After he died I studied a few other arts and finally settled with Kenpo. I also worked around the dojo when I couldn't meet the payments and my present Instructor always understood. Today I am a 3rd Degree Black Belt and an accomplished student of Nitoichiryu style swordsmanship.

Is Nitoichiryu anything like Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu?

Well there's nothing in the ryu guide at http://www.koryu.com , which is not enough to be conclusive but isn't really a good sign.

Sounds like a mispelling of (Hyoho) Niten Ichi Ryu, which would be the style which traces its lineage back to Miyamoto Musashi.

I don't know anyone who would claim to be an "accomplished practitioner" in such a bold and public way.

Well, you could go and hide somewhere, have mystical dreams, then a tengu will come and teach you your art.

Good enough for many a medieval sword style founder ...why not good enough for us!

[IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

I once tried self teaching but found out it doesn't work... You can't measure your strength, and you can't judge properly if your stance is correct.
Right now, I've just started studying Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryuu...

As far as self teaching goes, I would honestly recommend the bo staff or english quarter staff. There are accounts of farmers beating trained swordsmen with a simple stick. There are many, many sites online with blow by blow stances, etc, etc, for darn near anything you want to learn, including Irish Stick Fighting (which ain't exactly a common sport).

Charles, I believe he said he was an "accomplished student" not "practitioner" as you so aptly misquoted. If you're going to randomly criticize people, do so with correct quotation and go from there.

And no, I highly doubt anyone "perfected" any fighting art on the battlefield. There is generally no time at all to perfect anything on a battlefield except maybe your death.

Ronin, the key to teaching yourself ANYTHING is patience, perseverence, and a friend, preferably one who knows more than you and is dedicated. Hope this helps.

Right you are. He did say "Accomplished student", but now you are mincing words.

[QUOTE]
And no, I highly doubt anyone "perfected" any fighting art on the battlefield. There is generally no time at all to perfect anything on a battlefield except maybe your death.[/QUOTE]

Well for the record, you have misquoted as well. I never said anything about someone perfecting something on the battlefield. Check my posts.

At any rate you are correct. No one has perfected fighting arts on the battlefield. The styles were not evolved on the battlefield by individuals. Rather the students of various styles proved that what they had already been trained in worked by virtue of their survival.

The survivors were then able to bring that real world experience back to the dojo and share it with others, passing their experience and knowledge on to the next generation. This institutional knowledge has been passed down from one generation of instructor to the next for several existing schools.

Individuals didn't evolve the extant sword schools. They evolved over the course of multiple generations and have been handed down to the present. That's what I was getting at. That crucible no longer exists. You can make up all the techniques you want, but they will never amount to anything more than what you made up. You can never test them.



[This message has been edited by Charles Mahan (edited 10-04-2004).]

[QUOTE]Charles, I believe he said he was an "accomplished student" not "practitioner" as you so aptly misquoted.[/QUOTE]

A student does practice, right? A practitioner is forever a student in some sense, right? Your statement is pointless.

[QUOTE]If you're going to randomly criticize people, do so with correct quotation and go from there.[/QUOTE]

Mr. Mahan has never struck me as someone who "randomly" criticizes anyone. He is one of VERY FEW valued and knowledgeable members of the sword arts section. He does, like the rest of us do, call people out on their claims as we get a lot of young kids here with no experience trying to give advise.

[QUOTE]And no, I highly doubt anyone "perfected" any fighting art on the battlefield.[/QUOTE]

The battlefield is the culmination of training; if their training wasn't effective they died. However a man who had proven himself on the battlefield over and over (perfecting is a strong term for any art) honing his skill would be sought out for training or advise on how to improve in their own training.

[QUOTE]There is generally no time at all to perfect anything on a battlefield except maybe your death.[/QUOTE]

You know this from experience right? Are you saying you don't need any realistic training or experience with live combat if you are going to "develop" your own style, or teach yourself, from scratch? Not possible, you will have no way to gage your progress or know if your technique is truly effective.

[QUOTE]Ronin, the key to teaching yourself ANYTHING is patience, perseverence, and a friend, preferably one who knows more than you and is dedicated.[/QUOTE]

Only if your "friend" is a qualified instructor. You cannot teach yourself the martial arts. There is too much in timing, distance, body mechanics, rhythm and the general dynamics of stance, movement and execution for you to teach yourself.

What exactly is YOUR experience in Japanese swordsmanship (which is what is being asked for by the thread starter)?

My appologies Mr.Mahan. I failed to specify who, exactly, I was quoting... The battlefield bit was laf7773 or something.

As far as actual combat experience goes, yes. I have actual combat experience. With the quarterstaff, with which I am self-taught. Seems a stick is easier to walk around with than a sword/gun/spear. I would quote Bruce Lee when he states that you must visualize an attack at any moment, standing, sitting or lying down, then visualize a way to defeat that attack.

You can train yourself in anything. It won't be the most efficient way, or the best way, but you can teach yourself anything.

The sword I am most familiar with is the western shortsword. Japanese, French, Chinese, Italian, Mongolian... The applications may differ, but the principles are the same. You must know your weapons strengths and weaknesses and use them accordingly. Flame me if you wish, have fun, but I ask you this. How many of you have actual combat experience with a sword?

I wouldn't use the term "perfected" in reference to the martial arts. You misunderstood the post. It was roninotaku who asked where the arts were perfected, i only chose not to correct him but answer his question. The battlefield is where it was tested and proven like Mr. Mahan said.

I never asked if you have been in a fight with a stick, nor with a sword. You stated there was no time on the "battlefield" to perfect anything, you can't know unless you have been to war. A street fight rarely counts a war. No one today needs "combat experience" with a sword. If you are practicing a koryu art it's very likely the art has been tested and proven over generations (not saying all koryu are inherently good). Legal, moral and technical issues today make sword fighting impractical as no one wants to bring a sword to a gunfight.

You can't train yourself, your only kidding yourself. Get training from a legitimate instructor for a few years and you will see the difference.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by hidaguard:
You can train yourself in anything. It won't be the most efficient way, or the best way, but you can teach yourself anything.

[/QUOTE]

Can you teach yourself brain surgery? Oh sure you could make up all kinds of things. Read lots of books, puzzle things out, but are you willing to risk someone's life based on your "self teaching"? Are you willing to risk your own?

[QUOTE]

The sword I am most familiar with is the western shortsword. Japanese, French, Chinese, Italian, Mongolian... The applications may differ, but the principles are the same. You must know your weapons strengths and weaknesses and use them accordingly. Flame me if you wish, have fun, but I ask you this. How many of you have actual combat experience with a sword? [/QUOTE]
First of all I'm not flaming you. I'm poking holes in your arguements. There's a difference.

Second the principles of how to properly use a katana in combat come in a great many different flavors and vary, in sometimes amazingly suprising ways, from one style to the next. These principles are frequently not shared with the public. Oh sure there are a few books out there. Quite a few concerning MJER for instance. But none of them that I've read or heard of do more than gloss over the most basic of the basics. So if these principles aren't written down anywhere, and you don't know them... how do you propose to imagine them into existence?

I'm not saying you can't learn to swing a sword around in a way which vaguely resembles a legitimate sword style. I'm saying you cannot teach yourself a legitimate sword style, only something which might look like it.

As for whether or not I've been in "actual" combat, it's not really relevant. I'm not trying to create anything. I'm studying an extant sword style. One which has been handed down from one generation to the next since they times late in the 19th century when they were used in combat.

[This message has been edited by Charles Mahan (edited 10-05-2004).]

Oh, by the way. There are usually libraries near wherever you live. They're usually free, or a VERY small fee for a library card. Try there for books, tapes, CDs, etc.

I see, well, thank you for the advice, I still have alot of things to sort out at the moment, but I will keep your advice in mind. Thanks for all the help and advice.

Anwering Mr. Mahan, Nito Ichi Ryu and Niten Ichi Ryu are the same schools. Both founded by Miyamoto Musashi Kensei. As with the age old debate of Kenpo vs Kempo it is only a matter of pronuciation. As for both, the result is the same when the sword strikes, bleeding. Also, I am very proud of the style of swordsmaship I study and teach (studying never ends). I have studied the sword arts for 23 years. I know I have much to learn. I was not being bold but truthful. At the end if any questions are left unanswered, please, contact me I will gladly exchange info and I always welcome a good challenge. Let the bokkens do the talking OUSS!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sumo_Samurai_23:
I tauaght myself in bo and in katanas and i'm just as good as my friend who took tai chi and majored in bo staffs.[/QUOTE]
I also taught myself, and I am better than my friend, who practiced in ninjutsu.
Also trained with a katana. I train with four friends, one I like to call a student.




[This message has been edited by ModernWanderer15 (edited 10-27-2004).]

Hello Ronin,
I know your only 14, and I'm not sure if they except you if your under 15, but a friend of mine works in the tirling sign business. You know, the kids who stand on corners and twirl thge signs. Well, he gets paid about 12 dollars and hour and pract5ically does nothing. They might hire you i'm not sure, but it sounds good. Here;s the number my friend :1-714-832-1514. Good Luck

[QUOTE]Originally posted by whitedragon_48:
Anwering Mr. Mahan, Nito Ichi Ryu and Niten Ichi Ryu are the same schools. Both founded by Miyamoto Musashi Kensei. As with the age old debate of Kenpo vs Kempo it is only a matter of pronuciation. As for both, the result is the same when the sword strikes, bleeding. Also, I am very proud of the style of swordsmaship I study and teach (studying never ends). I have studied the sword arts for 23 years. I know I have much to learn. I was not being bold but truthful. At the end if any questions are left unanswered, please, contact me I will gladly exchange info and I always welcome a good challenge. Let the bokkens do the talking OUSS![/QUOTE]

Nito means two swords, Niten means two heavens. There is a difference. Mushashi called his style Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu.


[This message has been edited by Zeal (edited 11-23-2004).]

*Sigh* [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MAGon:
*Sigh* [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]

If this is directed at my last post, please understand I am not trying to start a flame war, I am merely stating the facts as I understand them. I am not questioning the legitimacy of anything, just trying to clear up a common misconception.

William Scott Wilson, in his latest book, "Lone Samurai - The Life of Miyamoto Musashi" states that Musashi changed the name of his style several times (Emmei Ryu, Nito Ichi Ryu) but the teaching he passed on was called Niten Ichi Ryu. This is also stated in Go Rin No Sho.

I apologise if you think this is a trivial point or pointless procrastination. My intent is not to undermine Whitedragon, and again I apologise if it looks this way.

Actually, I respectfully differ with you, Zeal. According to George McCall, Musashi changed the name of his ryu 3 times before dying. The name Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu was NOT invented by Musashi. It was named by his student after his death. The sword style went through 3 stages:

"Enmyo Ryu

It was after his 'duel' with Miyake Gunbei (While in Ogasawara service in Akashi, Harima Province, 1615-1627 approx.) - the first in which he was to display his two sworded technique in public (allegedly) - that he named his style of fencing 'Enmyo Ryu'. Enmyo is an alternative name for Akashi, the province Musashi was currently serving in. The result of this duel (including the ease in which it was won) saw Musashi realise his youthful dream of designing and perfecting (externally) a method of fighting with two swords. From this point on he would spend more time theorising about the true core of 'swordsmanship' and what it meant to realise this.

Nito Ichi-Ryu

There was to be a gap of many years before we next hear of Musashi changing the name of his style of swordsmanship - Nito Ichi-Ryu, 'Two Swords integrated as One School/Style'. Musashi was to have his portrait done by a famous Confucian scholar serving the Shogunate - Hayashi Razan - and it is on this portrait where the name first makes it appearance. At this time in Musashi's life he was about 48 and living in the new Tokugawa capitol of Edo (approx. 1632).

Niten Ichi-Ryu

At some point before his death in 1645, while still serving the Hosokawa but after the writing of his 35 Articles of Swordsmanship and the Book of Five Rings, Musashi again changed the name of his style, this time to Niten Ichi-Ryu,'Two Worlds integrated as One School/Style'. It is said that after his death not one of his pupils had the ability to fully understand his style and, even with his two publications, could not piece it together accurately - Niten Ichi-Ryu ceased to exist.

Today in Japan there is a style called Hyoho Niten Ichi-Ryu Kenjutsu that traces its lineage back to Musashi. The present headmaster is the 10th generation Soke Imai Masayuki from Oita prefecture:
Niten Ichi-Ryu techniques are economical, with no flashy or exaggerated movements. Targeting is precise, and the distance and timing of techniques is exceptionally tight and without wasted motion. This school is most noted for its series of 5 two sword techniques, but there are also 12 single sword forms and 7 short sword forms."

- Taken from a 'Field Guide to Classical Japanese Martial Arts' by Diane Skoss from the excellent book 'Koryu Bujutsu: Classical Warrior Traditions of Japan' (Buy it and part 2 - 'Sword and Spirit')

C. Roman

Thanks that was an interesting post,

I've always been interested in Musashi even as a kid. I hadn't realised he made two publications? (Only have Go-rin-no-sho).

I remember when I was younger, looking up Musashi in the Britanica Encyclopedias and was suprised to find he is only noted there for being a superb poet/artist but not a master swordsmen/strategist/ (Odd)

What is the other text by him?

Akiba

He wrote "Go Rin No Sho" and "35 Articles on the Art of Swordsmanship". For more info, please feel free to contact me directly.

C. Roman

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rianonse:
Hello Ronin,
I know your only 14, and I'm not sure if they except you if your under 15, but a friend of mine works in the tirling sign business. You know, the kids who stand on corners and twirl thge signs. Well, he gets paid about 12 dollars and hour and pract5ically does nothing. They might hire you i'm not sure, but it sounds good. Here;s the number my friend :1-714-832-1514. Good Luck[/QUOTE]

Lucky me, I turned 15 is Octorber, I'll give the number a call today, thank you for your help everyone, I really appriciate it.

Hey, I was just browsing the internet trying to find some online sword steps, you know teach yourself how to do some sword moves. I read through your entire converstaion and it seems you people aren't pro self-teaching...I am not willing to spend the money and years of training to do this, granted I would if I had the time, but my question is this, is there any way for you to verbally teach me a few fancy steps, sword swinging techniques or anything that we would be able to choreograph into one of our movies? I ask this because when we film fight scenes we run out of ideas quickly and we really don't know how to use the sword, but we would like some input on swordplay techniques and what not...oh and I believe the Hiten Mitsorougi thread was on this site too...that should be taught, if it isn't, granted you cannot make the jumps in real life, but in movies, you can do anything, if we had the technique down, the effects would be a cake walk, lemme know you can email me cuz I dunno if I'll find my way back to this site, sanosukesojiro@yahoo.com arigatou! ja ne

Sorry kid, you're dreaming.

C. Roman

I seriously hope that reply wasn't to me white dragon. It's not hard to choreograph fights verbally FYI, I've done it before

Movies are limited by the imagination, so my dreams, are actually reality, don't believe me? I'll create some sword moves and send em to you, I'll mimick the battousai. And I don't appreciate your sarcastic reply, trying to be the superior person, but I doubt you know anything about what I'm talking about. So unless you have something to say about choreographing a fight for me, please, don't talk to me at all.

San

If your looking for "tips" on how to "fake" a sword fight for a movie--I would just offer 4 things.

1-Probably not going to get a lot of help on this thread--very few of these folks are into swords for the movies.

2-"Real" use of the sword (japanese sword anyway) is anything but flashy--most "real" sword work is pretty stark, too the point etc.
Thats kinda the point as it were.
Real katana work is seldom of interest to anyone--most of its kinda boring to watch.

3-If someone did have some "cool moves" workable for your "movie" I would thnk that would not just give them to you for free.
Speaking personally I would very hesitent about just giveing you techiniques that I have sweated and bled for so you can turn around and make money off them (that is what a "movie" is for right??)

4-I would be very hesitant for "my" art to used in a movie--even worse of folks found out that I was the one who gave you "our" techniqes for your "movie."

Might make me look like a sell-out.

Not trying to be an arse--just trying to explain why your not getting a lot of help here.

Sword fighting is an art, and so is film making, the point of us making movies is not to profit from, considering we are 17, it is to obtain a portfolio to get into a good school. I understand that katana fighting would obviously try to kill the opponent directly rather than make it look pretty, we don't want full techniques or anything like that, we essentially want the death moves, like all our "bad guys" have been killed by decapitation and that gets a little boring, I was watching this weapons uh what do you call it, it was like a competition and there was this kid on it with a katana and he was flipping it all around and what not, want to learn some of that stuff, like how to swing, where to stab, how to block, how to use the katana with the wakizashi, simple stuff like that so we can adapt it our own way and you people won't be sellouts. Granted we are almost through the part with the katana and are moving into the broad sword, but we cannot profit from movies we make, if we sell and get caught we can be sued for SO much money, we are creating a film based on our favorite video game and the music is not our own, mainly because my cousin does not feel like writing it all, but it's for personal use, as the real swordsmanship is, not to harm, but to help, ya know?

San

I get where your coming from.

Just want to let you understand were I am coming from.

For example, the kid that "flips the sword around" you mentioned.

Is pretty much laughed at in serious sword circles--and by pretty much anyone that has had some real training.

Personally I see him as pretty much what is wrong with the martial arts in general.

A guy with no real training "flipping around" a blade in order to look cool and win tournaments.

And people consider him some kind of expert--based upon his gymnastic routine.

Its sad, and even worse it gives others the impression that is what the martial arts "are."

Seriously though, good luck with your project.

cxt is right. The stuff you see in movies and video games is pure entertainment. It kinda has to be, because as cxt mentioned, the real thing is kinda boring to watch. The guy that was mentioned who flips katanas around in a tournament is twirling a super lightweight aluminum sword like object. It weighs about 1/4th what the real things do and it isn't the least bit sharp. Replace it with a baton and the guy wouldn't look all that out of place in a marching band.

Imagine him trying to do that with a blade that weighs 4 to 5 times as much and is literally as sharp as a razor blade. It's showmanship, which coincidentally is what you are after. Nothing wrong with that.

The purist in me says that if you're trying to make a movie based on a video game/anime, you don't need anyone to tell you what moves to use. You should have all the source material you need. Copy the stuff in the game/anime as much as possible. That's the authenticity you should be striving for, and that's what people will appreciate.

I'm aware about the weight of swords, I own several, and I assumed he was using a fake one because I can do some of the flipping but not to his extent, but what I'm getting at is the correct proper stances and what not could you at least fill me in on that stuff?

There are two issues i have with this situation.

The first runs along with what CXT and others are saying. I see some of these flashy competitions, movies and cartoons as somewhat damaging to legitimate Japanese sword arts. They do promote interest in the art but they also give people a false sense of what these arts are really like, not just in sword arts either. So by giving you the information you want we are in a sense condoning what we condemn.

Then there is the possibility that you’re not being truthful in your reasons. Not saying your being dishonest, but there is the possibility. It's possible that your not looking for techniques for a movie but so you can show off for friends, another thing that is frowned on in most of these forums.

Your best bet is to either make up your own or find a different weapon of choice. It's looking obvious your not going to get much help in this area here.

Ok, so then give me your SN if you have one, or email, I'll email you a copy of the movie cover and the trailer we have made for it, let that speak instead of my words.

It wasn't an accusation, just a possibility. It doesn't matter to me either way. I have no desire to help anyone learn "tricks" when there are others that are serious about training in sword arts, and not for the sake of a movie.

No you did not just diss film making. Swordplay is just like film making, takes practice and talent which is why movies **** nowadays, I apoligize for trying to learn something new and incorporate it into actual use, that was a mistake on my part. Whenever I read messages, I put a voice to each one, and may be it's a false "accusation" but you people need to get the stick out. It's ridiculous that you people cannot fill me in on a proper stance, that's like me not telling someone that you press the red button to start filming. Whatever, this threads not worth my time.

That's the point. Your not trying to learn a sword art, you want short cuts. Your approach to sword arts can be viewed as disrespectful by some.

No i didn't "diss" filmmaking, but i'm not going to give you pointers on tricks, stances or anything else just for you to use in your portfolio project.

If you want to learn a sword art, find an instructor. Any martial art requires direct transmission at the very least in the beginning stages of learning. So even if you were interested in actually learning an art you wouldn't accomplish it here. The best anyone here could do would be to give you pointers.

Since you have heard from the majority of people here who actually train ( the few there are) and none seem eager to jump at the chance to "teach" you, it's pointless to continue. If anyone chooses to help you they have your e-mail address and can contact you. Also since this thread has been beaten to death, i'm closing it.