Shinai

Posted by: Brewer

Shinai - 02/26/01 12:58 PM

I was told one time that an individual trained properly in Kendo, could
split the head of a person wide open,just using the Shinai.If there are any Kendo
practioners out there,I would like to know if
this could be easily done.Or if it would take a great deal of training in the Art?
Your Brother in the Arts
Posted by: Andrew

Re: Shinai - 02/27/01 08:34 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Brewer:
I was told one time that an individual trained properly in Kendo, could
split the head of a person wide open,just using the Shinai.If there are any Kendo
practioners out there,I would like to know if
this could be easily done.Or if it would take a great deal of training in the Art?
Your Brother in the Arts
[/QUOTE]
Posted by: cricket

Re: Shinai - 10/15/01 09:24 PM

First, I must say that I am one who believes in ki and the so-called "myths" that surround it. Physically a shinai wouldn't be able to smash someones head. However, if one believes in the stories of Kung Fu swordmasters who can use a stick as they would a sword (blocking the blade of a sharpened steel sword) then smashing heads in is a small step away. If the ki can work in the Iron Shirt/Golden Bell technique, than couldn't one do the same type of strengthening with a bamboo sword, making it like an iron rod?
Posted by: Brewer

Re: Shinai - 10/15/01 10:21 PM

test
Posted by: fifthchamber

Re: Shinai - 12/15/01 08:55 AM

Hello Brewer,
This would not be possible..I don't care how much spells you chanted first! The Shinai is made of Bamboo and was specially chosen as a training tool because students were dying using the Oak Bokken! Shinai is not solid enough to split a persons head..Regardless of the strength of the person using it..Bamboo bends..it would not be solid enough to cause the damage you ask about. (although it does seriously hurt!) Sorry but the story was probably a 'chinese whisper' that started with a Bokken as the tool that was used.
Ben.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Shinai - 12/10/04 10:09 AM

the Shinai is a training tool it could however be used improperly during training and cause injury as can anything else. This however does not include smashing ones head open. The practice of Kendo focuses on slicing not bashing so a skilled kendoist most likely will not bash anyone's head. cut, slice yes. bash no.
To answer your question "No"
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Shinai - 12/10/04 11:18 AM

The Shinai was invented to minimize injury when sparring in Kendo. Plus in Kendo they also wear protective head gear so that minimizes injury even more. Without that head gear the Shinai may do some damage to someone's skull. But no one typically trains sparring with Shinai without the head gear.

Top Kendo experts haven't split each other's skulls in half with a Shinai in sparring or competition.

[This message has been edited by Walter Wong (edited 12-10-2004).]
Posted by: schanne

Re: Shinai - 12/10/04 11:53 AM

Have you ever been hit with a bokken?
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Shinai - 12/10/04 12:17 PM

Not really and don't want to. A Bokken would seriously injure or kill. That's why they use Shinai instead of Bokken for sparring.

[This message has been edited by Walter Wong (edited 12-10-2004).]
Posted by: schanne

Re: Shinai - 12/10/04 12:53 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Walter Wong:
Not really and don't want to. A Bokken would seriously injure or kill. That's why they use Shinai instead of Bokken for sparring.

[This message has been edited by Walter Wong (edited 12-10-2004).]
[/QUOTE]

Been cracked a few times on my wrist and it hurts!
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Shinai - 12/10/04 03:02 PM

I don't doubt it hurts like a mofo.

I've been hit with a staff for 2 person staff set.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Shinai - 12/14/04 12:11 PM

I've been hit behind the men several times and though it certainly hurts, it didn't cause any lasting damage. To get hit on the head with no protection though, I'd think it would certainly lay your head open and you'd bleed like a stuck pig, but to separate your skull...not likely. Can't see it. I've seen a forearm broken, but that's a different thing entirely.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Shinai - 12/15/04 02:37 PM

i'm gonna be called stupid for this one [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

I regularly spar with a friend. Neither of us really know what we're doing, but we've received some tutoring. Anyway, we used to use bokken - I've been stabbed, bashed, and generally received bokken through many angles lol. On the back of the hand and wrist hurt a lot, but luckily I've never broken anything from it.

Now I use shinai with my friend, so we can make things flow more without worrying so much about breaking bones. We sometimes wear thick gloves to protect the knuckles, but other than that, only our clothes. We usually aim for the body and pull attacks to the head and neck.

As has bee nsaid, shinai are much safer for sparring, and my point is, even two unskilled fighters without body protection can spar relatively safely with them. We don't swing wildly, btw, I'm not saying you can do what you want with them.

I dunno how relevant this is, btw, but in the movie Volcano High, a girl twats a guy over the head with a shinai for asking her out (lol, bloody women [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]) and all it does is cut the top of his forehead. I dunno how realistic that would be, but I don't really wanna find out [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

Imagine if Musashi had a shinai when he fought that guy (his most famous duel). The other guy would no doubt fall over, but would definitely lived.
Posted by: cxt

Re: Shinai - 12/15/04 04:00 PM

Gai

Yeah, a shinai could well draw blood--esp if you hit someone in the head.

But really can't do much real harm.

(if you should ever happen that your around when a shinai gets broken--please handle the parts with care--the bamboo is really sharp on the edges--and you can get a nasty cut on your hands)

They make some really interesting welts as well
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Shinai - 12/17/04 12:46 AM

Is there any major differences in realism between practicing with a bokken and practicing with a shinai? I'm new to the art of kendo and am currently searching for a dojo near me. I've already been reading quite a bit, in books and on various forums and I've never even heard of a shinai until now. I've always just assumed a bokken should be used for practice. It certainly looks more traditional to a real katana then a shinai (http://www.karatedepot.com/wp-ke-03.html) Is that a good shinai, for the price? Would you recommend purchasing from another site, all input is greatly appreciated guys. Thanks
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Shinai - 12/17/04 06:55 AM

They have two very different applications. A Shinai is used for contact sparring. A Bokken is used for practice in cutting and form. They also have very different weight, feel and balance because of this. As you progress in your art, a Bokken will eventually be replaced with a practice sword. A shinai will never be replaced.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Shinai - 12/17/04 11:26 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gemini:
They have two very different applications. A Shinai is used for contact sparring. A Bokken is used for practice in cutting and form. [/QUOTE]

A bokken has a more accurate weight, shape and balance than a shinai though. If you want to spar with bokken, try this out... Go down to a pool supply store and get a pool noodle (the ones with the 1" wall and 3" hole). high impact foam will also work. Split it down the middle, and cut it down to size (you can even taper it if you wish). Then wrap it around the blade of your bokken and attach it with about seven zip-ties. Now you can hash it out with your bokken, full contact.
Posted by: Charles Mahan

Re: Shinai - 12/17/04 11:31 AM

Of course the big problem with what you are describing is the added wind resistance. With fun noodle wrapped around the bokken the weapon will be somewhat sluggish compared to a live blade or even an padded bokken. In all "sparring" environements, there will be tradeoffs. The question is do those tradeoffs ultimately become more harmful than the benefits are good.
Posted by: cxt

Re: Shinai - 12/17/04 11:40 AM

Akedes

You might try using shinai WITHOUT the bogu.

Won't be the same in terms of weight and handeling of live blade or even a boken.

But it does (sorta) give you a good idea of what it might be like to face a guy with a weapon that is really going to hurt if it hits you.

Changes the whole manner in which you spar.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Shinai - 12/17/04 12:01 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Charles Mahan:
Of course the big problem with what you are describing is the added wind resistance. With fun noodle wrapped around the bokken the weapon will be somewhat sluggish compared to a live blade or even an padded bokken. In all "sparring" environements, there will be tradeoffs. The question is do those tradeoffs ultimately become more harmful than the benefits are good.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. Yes, a bokken does simulate a live blade better than a shinai, but at that point you've changed the asthetics, weight and dynamics of the bokken. So now what have you gained over just using a shinai, for what it's made to do in the first place.
Posted by: Charles Mahan

Re: Shinai - 12/17/04 04:34 PM

Not entirely true. Shinai, as in the kendo style shinai, are made to be used against folks in Kendo armor. They aren't really made to be used without proper protection.

If you want a shinai for use against unarmored partners you want a Fukuro Shinai which is basically a shinai wrapped in a leather tube. Still not really meant for complete unbridled combat though.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Shinai - 12/18/04 04:00 AM

Thank you all. Gemini - you said a bokken was used for art form, practicing etc. A shinai was mainly used for sparring, though a bokken can also be used, just with a more harmful side effect if you're horrible at sparring. Makes sense. But what about these Iaito katanas I've been reading about? I heard you can learn / spar with those as well. Are these real katanas? How would it compare to the Crane katana from Bugei I have ordered? Thanks in advance everyone. Sorry for the questions. I'd rather be educated on this, for everyone's sake though. Especially if you live in or plan on visiting Washington/Seattle anytime soon.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Shinai - 12/18/04 07:05 AM

[This message has been edited by Gemini (edited 12-18-2004).]
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Shinai - 12/18/04 07:12 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Charles Mahan:
Not entirely true. Shinai, as in the kendo style shinai, are made to be used against folks in Kendo armor. They aren't really made to be used without proper protection. [/QUOTE]

My apologies. I assumed that was a given. I didn't realize we had moved off of unarmored sparring. Anyone who's practiced Kendo has been hit in an unarmored spot. It hurts like hell. I would never have a contact match without armor nor recommend it to anyone.

Akades - If a bokken is used in any type of contact sparring, (not referring to 1 step sparring where contact is only made with another bokken) I'm not aware of it. That's not to say it isn't, just not to my knowledge.
Posted by: schanne

Re: Shinai - 12/18/04 08:19 AM

Of course we all watched "The Last Samurai" I know it is just a movie but during the entire movie the only thing they trained with was bokkens. What a great samurai movie, never get tired watching the seen where Tom Cruise is playing with the kid with the bokkens and the samurai takes the bokken from him and kICKS HIS ASS!
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Shinai - 12/18/04 12:12 PM

Actually, the pool noodle doesn't add too much wind resistance (If attached properly), and adds enough weight to make the bokken approximate to a real blade's. You can swing them almost as fast as the bokken without the sheath. The only problem that I've found with them is that they get kind of chewed up after a couple months of use. It does null the tsuba a bit too, but I don't use my tsuba much anyways.