Help with Sword Parts

Posted by: HiiYa

Help with Sword Parts - 07/04/07 07:29 PM

Hi Guys,

Does anyone know of a goodplace that has the names of the sword parts.. i.e. the japanese name for the hilt,hand guard etc

Any help would be great!

Thanks
Posted by: Ian_Johnson

Re: Help with Sword Parts - 07/04/07 11:40 PM

Here's a couple.

http://www.yamatanidojo.com/description_of_the_parts_of_a_ka.htm

http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/glossary.htm
Posted by: jpoor

Re: Help with Sword Parts - 08/08/07 04:34 PM

I don't see the word for the "face" of the blade on those pages. For the life of me, I can't remember the word right now either
Posted by: Charles Mahan

Re: Help with Sword Parts - 08/08/07 04:42 PM

What do you mean by face? Can you describe it?
Posted by: JMWcorwin

Re: Help with Sword Parts - 08/08/07 04:44 PM

Not exactly sure what mean by "face". But, how about Ji? Try the second link there.
Posted by: jpoor

Re: Help with Sword Parts - 08/08/07 04:45 PM

I'll do my best. Mind you though that I don't start my sword class until Saturday, so I could be way off here.

Face = the side of the blade that is always forward when mounted in a display. It is to your extreme left when worn in the saya.
Posted by: Charles Mahan

Re: Help with Sword Parts - 08/08/07 04:49 PM

I've never heard of a specific term for that side of the blade. I wouldn't be at all suprised if there was one though. The Japanese are great ones for naming things.

And to avoid any possible confusion, you mean the side of the blade which would be on the side of the saya with the kurigata. Ie it's on the left side of the blade when the sword is worn in your obi.

This might seem like a dumb clarification, but if you where a sword in tachi mounts it is worn edge down and that changes the side of the blade which is on the left when worn in the saya.
Posted by: jpoor

Re: Help with Sword Parts - 08/08/07 04:50 PM

I have the faint notion in my head that it starts with an "O," but I'm not sure. I'll have to ask tonight during a break from our non-sword class.
Posted by: Charles Mahan

Re: Help with Sword Parts - 08/08/07 04:53 PM

I think you are thinking of Omote side which would be the side of the nakago(tang) with the signature. The other side is called the Ura side.

Try this glossary
http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/glossry.htm
Posted by: jpoor

Re: Help with Sword Parts - 08/08/07 04:59 PM

Could be, but I thought for sure he was talking about the whole blade. Probably not though. All these parts are a little overwhelming. Who would have thought that one blade could have so many "parts?"

Thanks
Jim
Posted by: JMWcorwin

Re: Help with Sword Parts - 08/08/07 04:59 PM

Nice link Mr. Sir
Posted by: Charles Mahan

Re: Help with Sword Parts - 08/08/07 05:09 PM

I wish I knew who thought "Call me Mr Sir" would be amusing I have no idea how that got tacked onto my name, and no idea how to change it. Doesn't seem to be in the profile settings.
Posted by: jpoor

Re: Help with Sword Parts - 08/08/07 05:13 PM

Quote:

I wish I knew who thought "Call me Mr Sir" would be amusing I have no idea how that got tacked onto my name, and no idea how to change it. Doesn't seem to be in the profile settings.




Don't fret, I recently was tagged "enthusiast."
Posted by: Charles Mahan

Re: Help with Sword Parts - 08/08/07 05:14 PM

Well I went and checked the FAQ

http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/faq.php?Cat=0#titlestring

It seems one of the Admins renamed the various posting levels from the default settings. So instead of "Professional Poster" it reads "Call me Mr Sir."
Posted by: JMWcorwin

Re: Help with Sword Parts - 08/08/07 05:18 PM

I don't remember what thread it was, but one of the first posts I ever saw was from an admin telling a user he couldn't create his own handle. The odd handles are given out by the moderators for one reason or another, usually due to something you said/did, etc.
Posted by: jpoor

Re: Help with Sword Parts - 08/08/07 05:28 PM

Yeah, looks like mine was the plain ol 500 post mark that did it.
Posted by: pgsmith

Re: Help with Sword Parts - 08/08/07 07:02 PM

Quote:

Face = the side of the blade that is always forward when mounted in a display. It is to your extreme left when worn in the saya.



jpoor,
The word you are thinking of is omote, as Charles said. However, it is incorrect to associate it with a part of the sword. It simply means "outside", the opposite of ura. The omote is the "public" side of the sword, which faces outward when it is worn in the obi. The emperor nodes of the same are always on the omote on a full same wrap. The tsuba also has an ura and omote. The omote is the side which faces the tsuka since it is the side which the public will usually see. Conversly, in a tachi, which is worn edge downward rather than edge up like a katana, the omote is the right side.

Almost everything Japanese has an omote and ura as the Japanese were, and still are, very big on public vs. private.
Posted by: iaibear

Re: Help with Sword Parts - 08/08/07 11:38 PM

What's in a name?

I do not mind being a dragon. Sort of fits.
Posted by: jpoor

Re: Help with Sword Parts - 08/09/07 09:59 AM

Thanks. I was reading up on the concept of omote and ura (not just as it relates to swords) a bit last night. Public, private, front rear. All very interesting. Last night was a pretty intense class so I didn't get to talk about swords on breaks. Only enough time for breathing hard and water Iai Jutsu kicks off on Saturday though, so I'm sure my questions will begin to be answered then.
Posted by: Halley

Re: Help with Sword Parts - 08/10/07 09:32 AM

Omote is literally like "surface" or "face". For example, tatami omote is a thin veneer of tatami weave, not the whole thick tatami matting.

Early on, I came across the term 'omote' and found it helpful in the endless discussions of how a sword is presented, or kept to your side. When you are in seiza and your sword is not in your belt but on your right, the omote "face" side is face down, as if the sword were bowing to you. When you set the sword against the wall on the floor, the sword figuratively bows to the wall to not intrude on the proceedings in the room. When you present a sword on a stand for display (though endless and pointless debates seem to rage about this one), the sword's face looks into the room. When worn in your belt, the sword's face is not mashed into your hip but looks into the world. When you present a sword to someone horizontally, the omote faces you as does the recipient.

Another fun and loaded word is 'tsuka'. The verb meaning "to serve" or "to be useful" is tsukaeru. The handle of the sword serves you, or is the part you use.
Posted by: jpoor

Re: Help with Sword Parts - 08/10/07 09:38 AM

Very interesting. From what I understand (very very little) about the display on a stand; the difference is related to pre- or post-war Japan and the "concessions" that were made to allow them to keep practicing the sword as an art "Do" rather than a combat skill "jutsu" It has something to do with the way you would grab the sword of the rack. One way is quicker and more "combat" oriented. Of course, I could be coming totally out of left field as my sword learning has been limited to bits and pieces of conversation on the side. That will all change starting Saturday though.
Posted by: Halley

Re: Help with Sword Parts - 08/10/07 01:23 PM

I was going to edit that to write 'the sword looks into the room in readiness or to the wall in peace' but got called away from my break at the office. I don't know if the origin of that distinction is due to Meiji reformation of 1880s-1890s, or to post WWII, or for other reasons.
Posted by: Richard_Norris

Re: Help with Sword Parts - 08/10/07 02:18 PM

Quote:

Omote is literally like "surface" or "face" ...




And more ... "omote" and "ura"are widespread concepts that also mean "outside/inside" and "front/back". The "ura" meaning of teachings, martial or otherwise, is considered the non-obvious or hidden teaching (say, within a particular kata). Urasenke sado was the school of tea that operated out of the back door of a particular home (Omotesenke operated out of the front door ...).

RN
Posted by: Charles Mahan

Re: Help with Sword Parts - 08/10/07 02:59 PM

Quote:

Very interesting. From what I understand (very very little) about the display on a stand; the difference is related to pre- or post-war Japan and the "concessions" that were made to allow them to keep practicing the sword as an art "Do" rather than a combat skill "jutsu" It has something to do with the way you would grab the sword of the rack. One way is quicker and more "combat" oriented. Of course, I could be coming totally out of left field as my sword learning has been limited to bits and pieces of conversation on the side. That will all change starting Saturday though.




I don't think you will ever find a pre-war standard for displaying a sword. It will vary from region to region, and time period to time period, sometimes from style to style, maybe even situation to situation. So if you can't establish a pre-war "standard", you won't really be able to establish a post-war standard.

Don't get caught up on the "difference" between do and jutsu. The Japanese use the terms more or less interchangeably. They are just terms and do not really tell you much about the arts which use the terms.