Bad Budo and McDojos

(Made you look! )

I'm not for it, but how about a discussion on whether or not we should have a subforum for 'Bad Budo'. We can't help ourselves, so why not have a subsection?

I AM ALL FOR IT!!!!!!!!

eh.......what are we talking about?

The problem is, one person's 'bad budo' is what another calls 'home'.

good/bad ...thats very dualistic of you harlan

I propose to leave the bunkbusting to the experts (bullshido) and reference when issues of MA garbage and rediculous claims comes up. other than that, the way to end conversations really quick with bad budoists or bad budo topics is to either: ignore them, sabotage the thread with humor, or redirect to the appropriate forum.

As launcher of the "you might be in a McDojo if..." thread, I'd be a hipocrite to say I don't enjoy a good super soke story, ki-ball heroics and plaid-belts with matching headbands. but as the issue came up when things hit close to home for some people here...what some called 'bad', others called 'family'. talk about bad budo - that got a little ugly and uncomfortable even though each were stating what they honestly believed and didn't have an agenda to smear.

we shouldn't categorize 'good vs bad' ...since the terms themselves are sometimes the issue. making such a category would itself be 'bad budo'.

just my 'bad' opinion.

But...we do it anyway?

Very Victorian...to pretend. These topics/threads do slip in...so why not have a place for them? What would be the issues related to having this forum?

One more place to moderate. And that place would be worse than any other forum.

Are you volunteering?

I agree with Ed and what has been said before, bullshido is for bad budo, not here. They come up, yes, but not frequently enough to require their own forum. And if that ever does happen, I might have to rethink my membership here. I'm not trying to expose others, just to learn and share thoughts, ideas.

Just my view on it.

It's not pretending. heres the difference: if I post stating my opinion that something is 'bad budo'...then it represents just that: a single opinion.

move that same post to a forum section called 'bad budo' and the debate is over...it's already catagorized as such. the people perhaps defending it have an uphill battle.

Imagine if Scotties visit to UK thread was determined to be filed in 'bad budo' as oppossed to debating the issue on neutral ground.

Well a thread derailed is different than a thread that starts out as 'hey...let's discuss this guy' or 'what do you think about this'?

So, Joel advocates leaving threads that skirt this topic within their forums, and that there will be some measure of internal control/crowd pressure within that subgroup of folks that will naturally moderate the thread. I can see this working with the Zen or Aikido area...but not elsewhere.

McZen temple, I like that.

It's the moderators' jobs to moderate topics, not the members, hence the title. If a topic/thread is off-topic then it will be dealt with, either by locking/deletion or guidance of the thread. Different mods have different levels of what is acceptable, so there will be some variance in what is left open or locked.

What is so different about the zen and aikido forums that make them so capable of controlling themselves and the rest of us so incapable of doing so?

Why do you fall into the illusion of Duality, Grasshoppa?

Back on track: I disagree that it is only the job of the moderators to moderate. Each of us affects the course of the threads we post in...some of us are deliberate in the way we post.

Just warning of the possible problems due to mis-categorization which in itself could cause bad budo.

scenario: someone creates a thread "hey look at this mcdojo!".
- the thread is then refiled into the 'bad budo' corner.

- a debate over whether or not the place in question is the fine line of being money centric for greed or marketing conscience for survivability.

- good points are made, proof given of it not being a stereotype, and BTW a mod has a friend that goes there and likes it.

what happens to the thread now? will it be properly catergorized or forever (perhaps) unfairly labeled bad budo?

who would maintain such gray areas? the mods? what if they themselves are biased in particular cases...

...just entering in some characteristicly pain-in-the-arse thoughts on the topic.

Can be done here..can't be done here. Is that not duality? I don't understand yor concept of duality and it really doesn't matter here.

I didn't mean that it was only the moderators' jobs to moderate threads. But we are here to keep things on track if they do veer. We are the last resort or the pre-emptive strike, or both.

...the Final Fu? so to speak...

I think the concept is valid harlan, and I know the value for putting posts in their place. basically you want the in-depth, thought provoking, on topic subjects to be over here on your left...and the trash talk, gossip, small arguments to all be neatly tucked away in a filing cabinet we don't view too often..maybe marked as 'tax returns' or something. lol

I'd like that too...but how can I ever expect someone would organize things the same way I would?

George Carlan once talked about the concept of inventing a flashlight that will only shine on things worth looking at....then dropped the idea as being 'a little too idealistic'.

I agree with Ed and Joel. These discussions do not really come up often enough to warrant their own forum, IMO.

I'm certainly not trying to out-Bullshido Bullshido, in any case. But I think that it's not a bad idea to keep people on their toes about some of the nefarious MA stuff going on out there.

A lot of beginners have a "Mr. Miyagi" view of their instructors, which is sadly not always the case.

Hmmm...the mods have spoken.

Thanks for the feedback.

There is a section for "bad budo" on ebudo. The thing is you can't start a new thread in the bad budo section; it has to be moved there by admin. I don't think we should have a section dedicated to just that. It's one thing to have discussions about frauds and fakes in various sections of the forum but dedicating a section to it kind of looks like witch hunting. Although the bad budo section at ebudo works well i don't think it would fit in too well here. Mostly because there are many systems that most of us can't agree on in terms of validity.

For the record i don't think we should be adding any new sections but rather feel like we should be trimming some fat from the forum.

Well, since members probably can't agree on Budo, I'm guessing that 'trimming the fat' might not be an option. One person's fat might be someone else's zen.

How about consolidation.

Where would you start?

I'd start here:
http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/15781033/an/0/page/1#15781033

• Site Suggestions and Forum Help combined
• Martial Arts Books and Book Talk combined
• Washin School archived (not used)
• Daito Ryu archived (not used)
• Breathing and Breath Control archived or combined with another forum
• Stretching, Strengthening, and Body Mechanics combined to General Fitness

Just some suggestions

Those seem unobjectionable to me...but I don't care about any of them. I suspect that Daito Ryu could have a future, but since I suspect most of those folks just breeze through once a year and never post, agree with archiving it.

Should we have a poll on it?

Then there is the thread Ed points to. What about those?

Quote:

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Site Suggestions and Forum Help combined
Martial Arts Books and Book Talk combined

Washin School archived (not used)

Daito Ryu archived (not used)

Breathing and Breath Control archived or combined with another forum

Stretching, Strengthening, and Body Mechanics combined to General Fitness

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I agree totally with Joel. My vote.