Why use Points?

Although the use of kyusho points in the martial arts is not new, it still is not a widely accepted practice.

I am asked at many of my seminars why use the points. Do they really work? Can you really use them in combat? and so on...

Adding points to your current study, is just like the reason you began to study martial arts in the first place. Everyone can punch, kick, twist, wrestle these things are not difficult to do even with no training. Admittedly you can't do them as well as someone who has trained to use them in a specific way. The reason you study martial arts is to bring an order to the natural weapons that you were born with. To give you a more effective arsenal to defend yourself and others with. Adding pressure points to your study, makes the weapons and techniques that you posess more effective. The more you train to use them the better you become...Just like a beginners front kick differs in power, effectiveness, and form from an advanced student's; adding kyusho to your techniques and study will cause them to change again.

Any thoughts...anybody there???

Scott

I agree with what you've said. Plus, another reason i'm looking into pp's is it can help to counter a difference in size and strength. If you have a guy that outweighs you by 100 lbs of all muscle, I don't particuarly wanna play tag with the guy. PP's can help to neutralize your opponent before he has the chance to use that size and strength difference. Another thing is there's people that punching just isn't very effective against them. I know, I'm one of them. I've even been hit in the face by a bat and all it made me do is laugh (I got hit just past the eye brow outside the eye). I know why it didn't effect me very much was because whenever stimulous like that occurs such as a strike, especially to the face, I get loads of adrenaline in my system and don't really feel much at all..yet because of my training, I still think clearly, just become more aggressive. I know the aggression is in part of me being bipolar, not sure if the other effects are as well. But I'm sure there's other ppl like that out there so it's always good to keep one's options open and learn other methods as just one method of combat won't work on everyone.

dont u guys be mislead p.p really works the
reason there not widely use is because most
m.a teachers really dont understand the entire theory/concept surrounding p.p but i tell u this if u look at any....and i mean
any style of m.a u will seen that they all use p.p . now why do u think , it is because p.p are the basis of every style
the key is to learn grapping,kicking and striking the m.a secret is to learn how to
put chi/ki......energy in the points,body
organs. the real teahers will only teah there top ro closest student.

Knowledge of pressure points can increase the effectiveness of your self defense technique for a number of reasons. First, aiming at a specific target means your are more likely to hit that target. More concentration and precision are required and this translates directly into effectiveness wheather you hit the point or not. Second, learning about anatomy, physiolgy, TCM, etc not only gives you an understanding of the opponets vital points, but helps you to understand yourself and your limitations/weaknesses from the inside out. "You will first ascertain what are the anatomical weak points of the human body, then you direct your attacks at these points"
Sensei K. Peters
Iowa Combat Martial Arts Academy
Ryukyu Kempo / Jujutsu / Krav Maga

[QUOTE]Originally posted by KC:
dont u guys be mislead p.p really works the
reason there not widely use is because most
m.a teachers really dont understand the entire theory/concept surrounding p.p but i tell u this if u look at any....and i mean
any style of m.a u will seen that they all use p.p . now why do u think , it is because p.p are the basis of every style
the key is to learn grapping,kicking and striking the m.a secret is to learn how to
put chi/ki......energy in the points,body
organs. the real teahers will only teah there top ro closest student. [/QUOTE]

Oh Boy

No, I just couldn't let it past could I!

PP fighting has nothing to do with putting Chi/Ki into anything.
As for only teaching it to the teachers top students, garbage. Get into the 21st century. There is more knowledge on this subject available to more people. Do not try and push back history.

For your post, you weren't effusive enough about putting Chi somewhere it doesn't belong, so you only qualify for student membership of the FCP club.

JohnL

Of course ki is all gobbledygook, argle bargle, but it lets you learn how to use the system.

It wouldn't matter if physicists didn't have a modern model of an atom, if the model was no impediment to technology. The only problem with ki is it givs some credence to yellow bamboo.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kempoman:
Although the use of kyusho points in the martial arts is not new, it still is not a widely accepted practice.

I am asked at many of my seminars why use the points. Do they really work? Can you really use them in combat? and so on...

Adding points to your current study, is just like the reason you began to study martial arts in the first place. Everyone can punch, kick, twist, wrestle these things are not difficult to do even with no training. Admittedly you can't do them as well as someone who has trained to use them in a specific way. The reason you study martial arts is to bring an order to the natural weapons that you were born with. To give you a more effective arsenal to defend yourself and others with. Adding pressure points to your study, makes the weapons and techniques that you posess more effective. The more you train to use them the better you become...Just like a beginners front kick differs in power, effectiveness, and form from an advanced student's; adding kyusho to your techniques and study will cause them to change again.

Any thoughts...anybody there???

Scott[/QUOTE]

I was asked this exact same question at a White Crane seminar, just a few weeks ago.My answer was this, "If I punch you in a specific area in the hope of inducing pain, I could only guess or hope that your reaction to the pain would make you move in a specific way. If I use pressure point striking or manipulation correctly, then I remove the guess work." Having said this, I then took a hold of his left wrist with my left hand and pointed to his LI10 with my right. I told him that, "when I apply pressure to this point here, your knees will bend and your head will come forward." I then took hold of his arm and pressed with my thumb. Guess what happened.....
Another convert [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

--Dave

Dave , reading your post gave me dejvu [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG], only mine was at a SHITO RYU seminar on self defense. They were more the block a power punch group. Once we worked some TUITE into it and targeted useing KYUSHO concepts there were lots of wide eyes.

Points are everywhere so just strike everywhere, any available target. Overwhelm the opponent from all angles, keep a good transitional posture, steal their balance and make them react to you. Don't stop until they're finished. Oh, and learn to sprawl and counteract tackles and takedowns. Learn to reverse a mount and how to stay mounted, especially the knee-on-chest position.

PPS can be useful for this, if they are reflexive techniques. Learning PPs is helpful, but unless you can do dian xue, kyusho jutsu or tuite on an active, moving target that is adrenalized and enraged, I would use it as a point of reference, not as a particular fighting strategy.

PPs are spaced out over the entire body. Some say every area the size of a quarter (others say a dime) has a specific point that either elicits sensory, motor or sensory + motor nerve responses. That's me putting it in a modern medical context which does not always work when it comes to points and meridians.

Parry, duck, dodge, get their rear corner, get positions of advantage where you have multiple offensive options while they attempt to readjust and get their bearings. Punch/strike their arms, torso, head and neck. Sweep them while striking and throwing. Whatever you do control the flow and get it done quickly.

Now that you know the secret to fighting I'm expecting to be compensated for my info. That'll be $33.33 per word. You can send it to- Cosmopolytrikshun@getfriggnreal.com on!

Oh yeah. By striking her fire with my wood point, you can elicit an internal tsunami-like water response, and rock her world like heavy metal.

[This message has been edited by Dr. Krunk-n-stein (edited 04-09-2004).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kempocos:
Dave , reading your post gave me dejvu [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG], only mine was at a SHITO RYU seminar on self defense. They were more the block a power punch group. Once we worked some TUITE into it and targeted useing KYUSHO concepts there were lots of wide eyes. [/QUOTE]

Between the two of us, we should be able to convert everyone to Kyusho applications and be done with all these nay sayers [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

Seriously though, the looks you get when your point [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG] is made, makes it all seem worthwhile, and even makes you want to attend seminars that you wouldn't normally go to don't they?! [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/tongue.gif[/IMG]

--Dave

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dr. Krunk-n-stein:
....
Oh yeah. By striking her fire with my wood point, you can elicit an internal tsunami-like water response, and rock her world like heavy metal.

[This message has been edited by Dr. Krunk-n-stein (edited 04-09-2004).][/QUOTE]

So, here we have another subscriber to LOVEBUTTONS.COM [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/tongue.gif[/IMG]
--Dave


[This message has been edited by Dave Cobb (edited 04-09-2004).]