Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link

Posted by: karate_popo

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 10/23/07 11:34 PM

i don't see how someone can say the pressure points don't work.. now i dont' know anything about grappling.. but i do know what all the pressure points feel like, and i know that if while grappling if you have one free hand to do the pressure point, it's gonna hurt your opponent like hell.. so wouldn't that pain make them let go of whatever they were doing?

Posted by: BrianS

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 10/24/07 01:08 AM

Quote:

i don't see how someone can say the pressure points don't work.. now i dont' know anything about grappling.. but i do know what all the pressure points feel like, and i know that if while grappling if you have one free hand to do the pressure point, it's gonna hurt your opponent like hell.. so wouldn't that pain make them let go of whatever they were doing?

That, or it may make them break what ever they are holding. Only one way to find out karate popo.

Posted by: karate_popo

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 10/24/07 07:09 AM

all i know is pressure points hurt like hell.. just like the guy in the video..

Posted by: MattJ

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 10/24/07 11:13 AM

popo -

I am not debating the PP strikes hurt. What I am debating is how easily you will be able to do them when the opponent is actually resisting, and not just letting you hit them. An experienced grappler will not just lay there like that.

Posted by: underdog

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 10/24/07 11:53 AM

I have seen experienced grapplers dig an elbow into Sp 11 to break a guard in the context of doing their other good stuff. Maybe it isn't a question of all or nothing. Maybe it is that pressure points assist what are otherwise good techniques and make them better. I would not say use pressure points in isolation without regard to good martial arts techniques.

I'd suggest instead to take a look at some technques that are working well and maybe some that seem to need a little something, and see if pressure point applications improve them.

If not, fine. The forum is about being open minded and learning from each other and sharing ideas. You take what you can use and leave the rest. It is not necessary to agree. Just disagree respectfully. Otherwise, the forum has a hostile tenor and it is difficult for people to feel comfortable about posting questions for fear that more knowledgeable people will ridicule them.

Be nice.

Posted by: BrianS

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 10/24/07 07:40 PM

Quote:

I have seen experienced grapplers dig an elbow into Sp 11 to break a guard in the context of doing their other good stuff. Maybe it isn't a question of all or nothing. Maybe it is that pressure points assist what are otherwise good techniques and make them better. I would not say use pressure points in isolation without regard to good martial arts techniques.

That is a good technique. I have used it myself, I was taught to use it to break someone's guard.

Breaking someone's guard by making them uncomfortable is far from ending the situation. When they have you in a submission or a choke it's a different situation. If you make them uncomfortable, they will simply choke you out, break, or dislocate something. Much worse than a pressure point that "hurt's like hell".

Quote:

I'd suggest instead to take a look at some technques that are working well and maybe some that seem to need a little something, and see if pressure point applications improve them.

Absolutely, they do.

Quote:

If not, fine. The forum is about being open minded and learning from each other and sharing ideas. You take what you can use and leave the rest. It is not necessary to agree. Just disagree respectfully. Otherwise, the forum has a hostile tenor and it is difficult for people to feel comfortable about posting questions for fear that more knowledgeable people will ridicule them.

I don't think anyone here has crossed boundaries beyond just disagreeing. There should not be hostility or fear in any of this.

Posted by: MattJ

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 10/25/07 11:51 AM

Quote:

That is a good technique. I have used it myself, I was taught to use it to break someone's guard.

Breaking someone's guard by making them uncomfortable is far from ending the situation. When they have you in a submission or a choke it's a different situation. If you make them uncomfortable, they will simply choke you out, break, or dislocate something. Much worse than a pressure point that "hurt's like hell".

Well put, Brian. Exactly what I was talking about.

Posted by: underdog

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 10/25/07 05:11 PM

In those situations, like being on the receiving end of a choke, I use my other martial arts techniques with or without pressure points depending on what I'm going to do.

I would agree that digging your finger into someone's LI 10 point is not going to force them not to choke you out. That would be a lame technque. However, while I'm doing the other stuff that I have been taught in my martial arts style to get out of that hold, if there is a grabbing of the arm involved, and if that grabbing is near a pressure point, and if that pressure point is vulnerable to grabs when the arm is in the position and tension that it is, then why not grab on the pressure point?

Pressure points don't mean stop doing good martial arts. Pressure points is not a style. Pressure points isn't even a complete technque. Presure points are a set of vulnerabilities in the body for which attacks can be cultivated and incorporated into any martial arts style, including BJJ.

I will agree now that posting the clip was a bad idea. It was very amusing to PP practitioners, however that is a limited audience here, and it misleads everyone else. The defender using the PP in the clip used nothing else but the pressure point or as little martial arts as he could and make the clip, while the uke defending %100 obviously was not, in any world where defending yourself means to do something. He was only resisting the pain for as long as he could. A person with no martial arts training would at least attack the arm that was hurting him/her.

I saw it in a different context. That is OK. It wasn't worth it to post it. Now I am that much the wiser and I'm ready to move on.

My humble apology.

Posted by: BrianS

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 10/25/07 09:22 PM

Quote:

In those situations, like being on the receiving end of a choke, I use my other martial arts techniques with or without pressure points depending on what I'm going to do.

HUH? I never like to be on the receiving end of a good choke. You only have about three seconds to do something, so you better hurry!!

Quote:

I would agree that digging your finger into someone's LI 10 point is not going to force them not to choke you out. That would be a lame technque. However, while I'm doing the other stuff that I have been taught in my martial arts style to get out of that hold, if there is a grabbing of the arm involved, and if that grabbing is near a pressure point, and if that pressure point is vulnerable to grabs when the arm is in the position and tension that it is, then why not grab on the pressure point?

I agree. Anytime you have to grab or hit you should be aiming for some point atleast.

Quote:

Pressure points don't mean stop doing good martial arts. Pressure points is not a style. Pressure points isn't even a complete technque. Presure points are a set of vulnerabilities in the body for which attacks can be cultivated and incorporated into any martial arts style, including BJJ.

Ok. Is this a disclaimer? I do hope most people already realize this.

Quote:

I will agree now that posting the clip was a bad idea. It was very amusing to PP practitioners, however that is a limited audience here, and it misleads everyone else. The defender using the PP in the clip used nothing else but the pressure point or as little martial arts as he could and make the clip, while the uke defending %100 obviously was not, in any world where defending yourself means to do something. He was only resisting the pain for as long as he could. A person with no martial arts training would at least attack the arm that was hurting him/her.

Why was it a bad idea? Do we always have to agree and pat eachother on the back?

Maybe we should state what our opinion of a clip is when we post it. that way we will all be able to agree on it and no one will suffer anxiety.

Posted by: underdog

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 10/25/07 10:11 PM

No problem. I don't care if you disagree or don't like the clip or anything else. I certainly don't need your pat on the back. The effort to post something interesting just bombed unexpectedly. I need to know how to figure out what people will like and I just don't have the knack. In the grand scheme of things, a small problem. THe solution, stop posting clips.

Have to watch my Red Sox beat the Rockies.

Posted by: MattJ

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 10/25/07 10:36 PM

Quote by underdog -

Quote:

while the uke defending %100

But this is my point of contention. That guy was NOT defending 100% like a trained grappler would. If they are going to present a clip of pressure points working in a grappling situation, then they should be prepared to see it work against the resistance of a trained grappler.

Some PP enthusiast would see that clip and think, "Oh the grappler will lay there and not resist". But that's not what's going to happen, even against a white belt in BJJ.

Again, those points can work, and they can hurt. But even a fairly new BJJ guy is going to resist much more than what that clip shows. Misleading, IMHO.

I do not feel that my disagreement is disrespectful - it is merely disagreement.

Quote:

THe solution, stop posting clips.

No debate allowed? Odd policy for a forum.

Posted by: BrianS

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 10/25/07 11:06 PM

Quote:

No problem. I don't care if you disagree or don't like the clip or anything else. I certainly don't need your pat on the back. The effort to post something interesting just bombed unexpectedly. I need to know how to figure out what people will like and I just don't have the knack. In the grand scheme of things, a small problem. THe solution, stop posting clips.

Have to watch my Red Sox beat the Rockies.

Whatever.

Posted by: underdog

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 10/26/07 07:22 AM

I agree that the clip did not demonstrate GRAPPLING. It could have been labeled as something else and there would not have been a problem. Had it been posted as a suggestion for some useful points in grappling or had the point location and demonstration been followed by a take in the context of actual grappling, then you probably would not have found the clip so limited as a teaching tool.

Pass the bottle. I learned something that maybe might make me a better mod between your comments here and your other post with Theo's clips. I think I got it.

Posted by: Russell_Stutely

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 10/31/07 05:14 PM

Hi matt

You say a white belt BJJ would do better?? John beat loads of BJJ Grapplers in winning his titles.

When John was doing his stuff with me, i was resisting and trying to fight back, but my efforts were negated. Once locked up and essentialy "fight over by tapping" I of course ceased to resist as John was no longer attacking.

Johnwas going slower and with less power as he is a MUCH better grappler than i am.

Ken, who was on one of the clips, is a VERY accomplished grappler with many competitions and a cage fight under his belt even at close to 50 years old.. fighting guys half his age and more weight.

Russell

Posted by: MattJ

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 10/31/07 05:52 PM

Fair enough, Russell. Didn't look like it from the videos, IMHO. But hard to tell sometimes on the net.

Posted by: JKogas

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 10/31/07 07:53 PM

Looks like absolute garbage imo. I could barely get the clip to load to begin with. Then I see a person not resisting at all. Couldn't stomach much more of it to be honest so I don't know how the clip ended.

What tournaments has this guy won? Where were they held and who were the competitors?

Posted by: Russell_Stutely

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 10/31/07 08:12 PM

So you have an opinion of something that you have not seen.... Sounds like garbage to me.

What qualifies you to ask theose questions? What rank do you hold? What exporience do you have? Where did you train and can you provide the names of the Instructors?

Posted by: MattJ

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 10/31/07 08:23 PM

Russell -

With all due respect, John's questions are not out of line (at least in the grappling community). If someone makes claims about defeating BJJ people in competition, there should be records, such as those on Sherdog.

BJJ folk take those claims pretty seriously. A good competition record can mean better ranking, more students for teachers, etc. Many BJJ competitions are put to record for that purpose.

Posted by: BrianS

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 10/31/07 11:28 PM

http://www.martialartsyoutube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=d5072bb1864cdee4d3d6

(Breaking the guard) During the "resisting" part of the video I believe he did resist in a manner of speaking. He resisted by holding his position. He in no way tried to alter his position or keep it from happening, that's really not resisting in my opinion.
We practice this exact maneuver in my dojo in Ft. Smith, AR(if you want to travel

) and it does hurt,but not with the intensity that was displayed. You can break guard with it using the pressure point though,which was the point of the video.

BTW, You guys are straight goofy!!

Posted by: JKogas

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/01/07 07:02 AM

Quote:

So you have an opinion of something that you have not seen.... Sounds like garbage to me.

No…I just saw it on the clip here that was provided. My opinion that it is garbage is based on the garbage that I saw in that clip. It’s my opinion which is inarguable. You’re free to disagree.

Quote:

What qualifies you to ask theose questions?

What qualifies YOU to not answer them? The burden is yours bro, not mine.

Quote:

What rank do you hold? What experience do you have? Where did you train and can you provide the names of the Instructors?

Do you always answer questions WITH questions? Just answer the questions and don’t WORRY about what I’m about. Mine were simple questions. I can provide all kinds of answers about my rank, my level of experience and who I have trained with, but the thing is, it’s not MY video or school of thought that is in QUESTION -- it’s YOUR’S.

Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/01/07 07:56 AM

I agree with John and Matt. when you are defending something or someone, you can't defend it simply by asking the questioners for THEIR qualifications. lol sorry, that tactic doesn't cut it.

assume this: everyone's only qualification is being able to verify your qualifications. (which is why people tend to avoid the questions, as you are doing)

meanwhile, as you gather (or invent) the info of past training/competition records...here's some more vids for the thread:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=russell+stutely

ahhh...now I get it. selling 'd34dly' stuff:
http://www.russellstutely.com/

Posted by: jude33

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/01/07 08:34 AM

Quote:

So you have an opinion of something that you have not seen.... Sounds like garbage to me.

What qualifies you to ask theose questions? What rank do you hold? What exporience do you have? Where did you train and can you provide the names of the Instructors?

Hi there.
I dont realy believe in everything connected with pressure points.I believe in that parts of human anatomy such as nerves in the thigh can be targetted . I think your man is a good actor. I am more than likely the least qualified (Unless having been in some fights qualifies me on that score) amongst some of these guys here but I think I can see a lot of garbage. Most pain in a fight or if I person is hyper/wound up is often dismissed by adrenalin untill after the event. The points your man on the video is pressing on would not give that amount of pain

Seems like some giant wind up or inappropiate marketing.
The guy who posted this is he still about? More than likely not

Just my input. This is an open forum so basicaly John can state as he wishes (within reason)
(All due respect Matt)

Jude

Posted by: harlan

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/01/07 08:38 AM

I don't see what is wrong with asking about the background of someone asking questions. The reason: shared terminology and setting a baseline for common understanding of terms.

Posted by: Gavin

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/01/07 08:38 AM

A quote of yours from the other thread Russ:

Quote:

but John is so good at groundwork that he breaks things off you BEFORE you get a chance to do anything to him!

I think this the point people are trying to make mate, whilst I know the clip was a bit of fun, the only thing thats attempted to be resisted against in the clip is the pain. If anyone on the forum doesn't believe that digging your elbow into the spleen meridian or inner thigh area is going to hurt like hell then give it ago. But resisting against the pain and resisting against someone trying put pain on you are two different things. I think thats what people are critiquing mate, not the fact that it hurts, merely what exactly we are resisting against. The definition of "resisting" generally used on the forum is where you actually have to scramble for the point, not just lay there a let someone put the point on you.

Like stand up, landing a clean shot on a moving live target is a hell of a lot harder than having someone standing there and just bashing a dumb uke.

Think that is all people are trying to say mate.

Posted by: MattJ

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/01/07 09:00 AM

Quote:

But resisting against the pain and resisting against someone trying put pain on you are two different things.

Quote:

The definition of "resisting" generally used on the forum is where you actually have to scramble for the point, not just lay there a let someone put the point on you.

Exactly my point, Gav.

Posted by: Russell_Stutely

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/01/07 09:43 AM

Kogas

You said you did not watch the clip in full and called it garbage, then demanded answers of me. I don't know you from Adam.. for all i know you could be a 14 yr old geek tossing off in his mum's basement over "causing trouble" on the net.

My quals etc are on my site/s the people I train with, our group www.ocfm.co.uk Feel free to contact any of them at any time. there is little point in me repeating here what is available easily with the click of a button or two.

As for you... what level of answer do I give, depends on who you are. You demanded of me, so i demanded of you ... get over it.

The clips in question state quite clearly VIDEO LESSON. I could post a ton of clips of BJJ lessons on here from youtube where the Uke is not "resisting" in your parlance... does that make what they are doing garbage as well??? No because it is amazing BJJ that everyone should do!

If you guys can't understand the difference between a LESSON, TRAINING and a FIGHT, then you need to seriously look at what you are doing.

Well, I have NEVER seen BJJ in any real fight that I have been in and never have any of my colleagues... maybe Gav has more of an insight as I think he is still doing the doors??

Does that do anything to discredit BJJ in my book? No, not one bit.. it is a great MA, just like all the other MA's.

Ed_Morris... Like I said my details are freely avaialable.

Jude... You state with what authority that those points on the clip would not give that amount of pain? You just watched it happen... not with an actor!

Again... it comes down to this type of stuff with forums... a simple little clip gets attempts at ripping it to pieces... usually by people who don't even post under their own name, demanding quals etc off people who DO POST under their own name, who DO put out clips to try and help others.

NEVER, do these same no-names EVER turn up and train or EVER have anything positive to contribute. It is obviously a passtime to try and belittel what you see unless it meets with your own blinkered stereotype.

Get over it guys.. or why not even post some stuff of you actually doing something rather than clips of you typing at 100 words a minute!

Why not post a clip of YOU showing US how it should be done? Till that has happened your arguments / differences of opinion etc lack any type of validity. I will tell you why...

If i see a clip of something I disagree with, I will put forward a valid reason for that disagreement, along with a sound logical argument for my conclusion.

To simply dismiss something as garbage, would not happen in a fight, BS or whatever, is School yard mentality.. and with that as your opening statements, menas that is the level of answer you will get in return.

If you want to discuss at a level commensurate with the age, experience and ability of true adults and MA's then I am up for that.

The type of discussions so far are WAY below that marker.

The ball as they say is in your court...

Regards

Russell

Posted by: MattJ

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/01/07 10:01 AM

Russell -

Quote:

The clips in question state quite clearly VIDEO LESSON. I could post a ton of clips of BJJ lessons on here from youtube where the Uke is not "resisting" in your parlance...

True enough, but the uke in the clip made a big point about how he was fully resisting, etc. How else would someone take that?

Quote:

Again... it comes down to this type of stuff with forums... a simple little clip gets attempts at ripping it to pieces... usually by people who don't even post under their own name, demanding quals etc off people who DO POST under their own name, who DO put out clips to try and help others.

Understood, but both JKogas and myself post using our real names, including training details in the profiles. Clips of myself are on this site in the "Members in action" thread for you to tear apart if you wish.

Posted by: BrianS

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/01/07 10:04 AM

Quote:

http://www.martialartsyoutube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=d5072bb1864cdee4d3d6

(Breaking the guard) During the "resisting" part of the video I believe he did resist in a manner of speaking. He resisted by holding his position. He in no way tried to alter his position or keep it from happening, that's really not resisting in my opinion.
We practice this exact maneuver in my dojo in Ft. Smith, AR(if you want to travel ) and it does hurt,but not with the intensity that was displayed. You can break guard with it using the pressure point though,which was the point of the video.

BTW, You guys are straight goofy!!

Wish I could post a video for you. It can definately work,but it's not that simple. I guarantee it.

Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/01/07 10:33 AM

http://www.russellstutely.com

"Europe's #1 Expert on Pressure Points in the Martial Arts."
uh-huh.

then just look here:
http://www.russellstutely.com/specials/catch/catch_offer2.htm

I like this big button down the bottom: "Add Catch Wrestling Pressure Points Secrets to my cart"
bwahahaha.

you'd have to be a brain-dead moron to buy into that kind of marketing scheme. it's like the type of people who still buy "Lieutenant X" products.

I'd say this whole thread is an advertisement. Underdog, does your group subsidize or underwrite this guy's product in any way?

Posted by: MattJ

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/01/07 10:37 AM

Ed -

I was under the impression that Underdog had posted those clips without Russell's knowledge.

I don't see any kind of conspiracy, nor do I think that Russell is any kind of charlatan. I do disagree with how those clips were represented, but that's about it for me.

Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/01/07 10:39 AM

yeah, you are right. sorry. now I see the opening post she mentioned she was laughing at it too.

Posted by: jude33

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/01/07 11:11 AM

Quote:

Kogas

You said you did not watch the clip in full and called it garbage, then demanded answers of me. I don't know you from Adam.. for all i know you could be a 14 yr old geek tossing off in his mum's basement over "causing trouble" on the net.

Russel.

If I may call you that.
Firstly I think its either J kogas or John. The term "Kogas", Russel is to well I am a bit lost for words. I think the term disrespectfull comes to mind.(put in words suitable for this forum)
I like Johns mannerism and his vast knowledge in his field.
If you bothered to look at Johns input on this forum for some time you would see that John knows his stuff. It would have been easy to look at most of his input.

Quote:

No because it is amazing BJJ that everyone should do!
If you guys can't understand the difference between a LESSON, TRAINING and a FIGHT, then you need to seriously look at what you are doing.
Well, I have NEVER seen BJJ in any real fight that I have been in and never have any of my colleagues...
Does that do anything to discredit BJJ in my book? No, not one bit.. it is a great MA, just like all the other MA's.

Russel.
If you so desire and if I still have them I can post you variations on techniques during a street fight, on video, that are trained in BJJ. I have seen variations of techniques found in BJJ in a fair amount of street fights.
I have only realy been training in grappling for a short length of time.

Quote:

Jude... You state with what authority that those points on the clip would not give that amount of pain? You just watched it happen... not with an actor!

I dont recall stating anything with authority.What I said was I doubt if that amount of pain can be given doing what the guy was doing. I still do.

Quote:

who DO put out clips to try and help others.

Fine. I watch videos quite often. But that one doesnt realy do anything for me, If it was meant as fun then fine. But I cant believe it.

Quote:

If i see a clip of something I disagree with, I will put forward a valid reason for that disagreement, along with a sound logical argument for my conclusion.

Ok here is a valid reason(s). The guy giving out that amount of pain (was that you Russel?). I dont believe it. The guy taking that amount of pain I dont believe it.
I believe that there are certain points on the human body that can be manipulated to give pain but I dont believe that the guy on the video was inflicting that much pain just by doing what he did.
Those reasons are all before even getting to the part of adrenalin and against an unresisting opponent

Jude

Posted by: BrianS

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/01/07 03:13 PM

Ed,

jude33,

Quote:

If I may call you that.
Firstly I think its either J kogas or John. The term "Kogas", Russel is to well I am a bit lost for words. I think the term disrespectfull comes to mind.(put in words suitable for this forum)
I like Johns mannerism and his vast knowledge in his field.
If you bothered to look at Johns input on this forum for some time you would see that John knows his stuff. It would have been easy to look at most of his input.

I too will vouch for John's (JKogas) knowledge. He has shared with us a great deal and has effected my own training in many ways. BTW, I see "Kogas" as disrespectful as well. I don't think you would like "Stutely".

Quote:

I dont recall stating anything with authority.What I said was I doubt if that amount of pain can be given doing what the guy was doing. I still do.

As someone who has done this technique I KNOW it's not THAT painful. Painful enough for you to let go, but factor in adrenaline and I think that goes away too.

Quote:

Ok here is a valid reason(s). The guy giving out that amount of pain (was that you Russel?). I dont believe it. The guy taking that amount of pain I dont believe it.
I believe that there are certain points on the human body that can be manipulated to give pain but I dont believe that the guy on the video was inflicting that much pain just by doing what he did.
Those reasons are all before even getting to the part of adrenalin and against an unresisting opponent

I completely agree here as well. Valid point in bold.

With all that said, I do believe it will enhance your grappling skills. The dramaticism was just marketing in my opinion.

Kind of like those infomercials with the overmelodramatic actors. (WOW!!! IT really does get the stains out!
!!)

Posted by: Russell_Stutely

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/01/07 03:48 PM

The person I now know to be called John has a username of jkogas and did not put his name to his post. It is impossible to call someone by the correct name if you either don't know it or it is not given.

Ed-morris
Thanks for your contribution ref the package... just because something is not for you, does not make it a bwa haha product. Again, it comes back to what type of discussion do you want? Obviously you want it be at the bwahaha level of maturity. At least now I know what level to converse with you at.

Again.. what part of LESSON is not understood? jude33.. many clips have been put on you tube of "BJJ" street fights.. usually a couple of teenagers / youngsters in a set up fight with a ring of people around them... street fight that ain't. Check out some CCTV footage for real fights.

The guy giving out the pain was not me. I was either behind the camera or the one getting hurt.

I was resisting against John and tying to fight back... of course you only have my word for that don't you!

BrianS.. You mention that you have done the technique and it's not that painful... do you think that there could be a chance, that John is adding something more to that technique that increases the efficiency and pain?

That is the way i would look at a clip... maybe it is believeable, maybe not... BUT what if it can be replicated and be repeated with a high percentage success? Surely, that must be worth some time and effort to find out?

Now, Bria.. I have had a fair few fights, hard spars and train at a fairly high level still. I am used to pain in abundance.. I boxed up to 30 rounds a week of good solid sparring with good amateurs / pros and National team members, so i know what pain is like. believe me when I tell you that the way John does that technique is BEYOND any other way of doing it that I have felt, so far.

Jude33 A valid reason is not "I don't believe it"! It is I don't believe it because of facts a,b,c etc and my experience to date shows that xyz has been shown to be true under the same / similar circumstances. My points of reference are as follows... See what i mean??

mattj... I will have a look at your clips.. thanks for the info on where to locate them.

Regards

Russell

Posted by: BrianS

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/01/07 04:53 PM

Russ,

Quote:

You mention that you have done the technique and it's not that painful... do you think that there could be a chance, that John is adding something more to that technique that increases the efficiency and pain?

Chi maybe?

Um...no, I don't..

Like I said, it hurts enough to make you let go if all you do is lay there and try to hold your legs together. Which is what I saw. Followed by alot of overdramatic wailing that only dolphins can understand. YEEARRTUNNIHGGiffffguhhhfyrrr!! Beepbeep. Nirklewoofergurk!!!

Quote:

Now, Bria.. I have had a fair few fights, hard spars and train at a fairly high level still. I am used to pain in abundance.. I boxed up to 30 rounds a week of good solid sparring with good amateurs / pros and National team members, so i know what pain is like. believe me when I tell you that the way John does that technique is BEYOND any other way of doing it that I have felt, so far.

Are you the chubster on the video??

BTW, if you are going to advertise "d3adly cr4p." Ed will be the first to sniff it out.

Posted by: Russell_Stutely

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/01/07 05:08 PM

Hi BrianS

Depends what you mean by chubsta! Given this forum I have no idea... Ken has a tache and is far chubbier than me. John is the one giving out the pain, I am the other one.

Shame you think there is no chance John is doing something more... you will never know what you have missed out on.

Plus.. I don't advertise deadly crap. I don't advertise any crap.

It all comes back to training don't it? You and everyone here except Gavin has NEVER met or trained with us. gavin has... his report is here www.ocfm.co.uk/training_camps.htm

His opinion is an informed one.

Posted by: BrianS

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/01/07 05:40 PM

Quote:

Depends what you mean by chubsta! Given this forum I have no idea... Ken has a tache and is far chubbier than me. John is the one giving out the pain, I am the other one.

Ok. Who is the guy on bottom that promised to resist fully with everything he had? He was chubby. I was only picking because you listed all of the sparring and fighting you have done. I would expect to see someone in good physical condition.

Quote:

Shame you think there is no chance John is doing something more... you will never know what you have missed out on.

Why don't you explain what else he might be doing? Or is it a secret that I have to buy?

BTW. In what manner were you resisting? Were youy onlu trying to hold him in guard using nothing but your legs? That is limited resisting at best.

Quote:

Plus.. I don't advertise deadly crap. I don't advertise any crap.

I didn't say you did. I said if anyone did,Ed would be the first to sniff it out.

Quote:

It all comes back to training don't it? You and everyone here except Gavin has NEVER met or trained with us. gavin has... his report is here www.ocfm.co.uk/training_camps.htm

Fair enough.

Posted by: Gavin

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/01/07 06:54 PM

Quote:

don't advertise any crap.

It all comes back to training don't it? You and everyone here except Gavin has NEVER met or trained with us. gavin has... his report is here www.ocfm.co.uk/training_camps.htm

His opinion is an informed one.

Was a good week. I got to experience many things during that week. Being bashed hard, sparring with one of the greats from British Boxing, rolling with the great Tony Bailey, made life long friends, had my eyes opened to a few different things and most importantly for me at the moment it was through Russ that I met Steve Rowe...it was a very good week. Has it really been a couple of years...still seems like last night I was having a brandy with Herol Graham...well it was dark, I think he was there!

Posted by: MattJ

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/01/07 09:06 PM

While I don't agree with the clips posted, I don't think it is fair to characterize Russell as a greedy con-man. The clips in question are part of a free instructional series on the Martial Arts YouTube thing.

That said, I do agree with most of the guys here that the thigh pressure point is not going to be very effective against anyone but the most inexperienced grappler. The technique is taught at just about every BJJ school as BJJ 101. I made a thread about being on the receiving end of it a while ago here:

http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/s...=3#Post15903034

While it was quite painful, the guy that did it to me was unable to break my guard or get anything else on me for the duration of the match. FWIW.

Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/01/07 09:07 PM

http://www.multipliedforce.com/NewWay4.html
http://www.multipliedforce.com/StutelyDeal/
http://www.stutelysystem.com/

June, 2005:
"Russell Stutely has been awarded the Rank of 6th Dan Karate Jutsu" http://www.gokarate.com/News.htm

http://www.karatejutsu.org/

Shotokan.

World Martial Arts Hall of Fame.

on the cover of Steve Grayston's mag.

etc...

we've seen this kind of thing before from UK/Europe....and it's not so much a 'New way to fight' as an old way to make money.

I agree with Brian's spidey-sense...it's largly a money-pump with some interesting stuff from various sources sprinkled in.

Posted by: Russell_Stutely

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/02/07 03:48 AM

Ed

You would not make a good detective..
multipliedforce.com and stutelysystem are not owned by me. They are owned by NAP, New Approach publishing, who paid me to make DVD's with them.

NAP are without doubt the most honest and ethical people I have dealt with in the Martial arts. Their advertsing may not be to everyones tastes, but it works for what they do.

As for the front cover of Graystons mag... news to me. Never met him.

What's wrong with being awarded a rank? I train hard, often and have done for many years.

This sort of "investigative pseudo journalism" always turns up when you are faced with someone who is not intimidated by your veiled bullying attempts. You try to somehow "invalidate" what they do, by saying it's all about money, marketing or some such thing.

Well... MONEY is important. Martial Arts is my career, my job, my livlihood. I make no bones about it. I am honest about it. I charge for my services and charge well... why? Because I am bloody good at what I do and teach.

In the safety and sanctity of a "normal" job, you get paid regardless of whether you are any good or not... I give a 100% no quibble money back guarantee on every DVD and Seminar and lesson... no-one has ever asked for a refund! Only for more!

How many MA Instructors offer that? I don't sell my stuff to lose money or to live up to some idealistic dream of utopia whereby no-one charges for Martial arts, because we are all such great people and it should be free.

Of course, opinions vary widely on whetehr charges should be made and at what level they should be made. It is of course this simple... you get what you are worth from repeat customers.

It costs nothing to recruit an existing customer... so, unless you are an idiot or a con man, it makes sense to provide the very best service, goods etc as you possibly can, so that your customer is happy.

In this contect, that means, they radically improve their Martial arts... which is, of course, what i can do for people.
I don't expect you to understand the concepts, principles and methodologies upon which, what i teach are based, as it is apparent, that we are not talking the same language so as to speak.

What i can say, is that just because something has been taught via X method for many years, by many people, does not make X method, the best way to get the information across. This in no way is meant to try and invalidate X method... just that the route of progress, could ne made much quicker, by implementing what I have to teach.

I have never failed to massively increase anyones striking power within 60 minutes.. sometimes doubling or even trebling their impact.

Whilst the likes of you try to belittle what is being achieved... hundreds of others are reaping the benefits.

The irony of it all is that it is the likes of you, who are the biggest losers in all of this. the blinkered and negative approach is destined to keep you from fulfilling any potential that you may have as a Martial artist.

Now, i am not for one second saying that you or others like you are not able Martial artists or that you can't fight.. you probably can. What i am saying, is that you are denying yourself the opportunity to become MUCH better, MUCH quicker.

That means, opening yourself to new and different ways of training. It takes, if you like, a leap of faith. Something that many like you are not prepared to take.. for various reasons...maybe you feel threatened by the unknown... maybe you like the safety and security of the nos of people that you agree with or agree with you... whatever the reason, it does not really matter. But to REALLY, RADICALLY improve, you need to lose the ties that you have and be prepared to acept other thingsthat will do nothing but help.

We have all been where you are... thinking that what you do is the be all and end all... or basking in the reflected glory of a truly great fighter who therefore "validates" what you do, because he wins every comp for a while.

You may or may not believe this Ed, but I truly want to help. Free video lessons are a part of that help, free newsletters, training tips etc are also a part of that help.

At the end of the day however, I have to make a living and it is only right that i get paid for what i do... and when you are good at it.. then you deserve a pay scale commensurate with the increase in ability and knowledge that you are able to pass on to your student, client, customer... etc

Mattj.. the clips are free as is mayoutube.. a whole range of free clips are given away in my newsletters as well. Plus clips from other OCFM Coaches... again ... all for free. Please refer to below.. offer is open to you too.

BrianS... If you are serious about wanting to know what John was doing different.. then e-mail me direct russell@russellstutely.com and I will go through it with you.. or skype me and I will talk it through with you.

I will not post it on this forum as that information is for members of the free newsletter and above, not for open forums such as this. I value my time and my customers, members etc.. So, if the information is going out, it goes out to them.

Regards

Russell

Posted by: JKogas

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/02/07 06:42 AM

Remember the "duck test" folks? "If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, I would call it a duck."

Apply it to this. Decide for yourselves.

Personally I would LOVE to roll with guys like these and feel what's going on for myself. If there are any reps in the US, I would enjoy meeting up with these folks and training. I'm betting there aren't.

If there were and good grapplers here were able to go and train, I'm thinking the results would be similar to the manner of the Dillman associate that made the news report in Chicago that time. Remember that? (you can probably still find the clip on Youtube.) His OWN students were perfect in their "helpful idiocy". Remember when he went to the Gracie academy, the students there weren't affected and stood there looking at him stupidly?

Betting the same thing happens here. Just my opinion.

Posted by: Russell_Stutely

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/02/07 07:19 AM

John

All I can say is ditto, what i wrote to Ed...

If you are serious about meeting up to train with one of our Grappling Coaches, then keep in touch.

I will be out in Chicago for a few weeks in Spring next year.. to do just that, roll and train with our Grappling rep... be a great opportunity for us to meet up.

I will be there for nearly a Month, so hopefully we can find a mutually convenient time to meet.

Look forward to meeting you.

Regards

Russell

Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/02/07 07:37 AM

NAP are the people (actualy just one or two guys) who does the spamware marketing sites right?
some of his other work:
http://fightbackselfprotection.com/
http://www.thekoguy.com/
http://www.multipliedforce.com/leemorrisonsfightback/
http://www.russellstutely.com/skype_register.htm

award at SENI
http://www.russellstutely.co.uk/latest_news.htm

http://cgi.ebay.com.hk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120140080851

but "Ian" seems to have an evil twin, "Oliver"
www.OliverGoehler.co.uk
http://www.thewholesaleforums.co.uk/forum/supplier-discussion/1649-oliver-goehler-2.html
http://www.bizoppsuk.com/oliver_goehler.php
etc...

maybe I should just buy this instead of working:
http://www.successuni.co.uk/

you apparent frauds and the marketing crooks you work with are about making a buck. martial spammers.

Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/02/07 07:42 AM

ah yes, Chigago. where this type of marketing all started:

I see the resembalance.
* Guy in a scarry pose - check.
* acion words like "deadly" and "secrets" - check
* appealing to the macho bravado audience - check
* be a master by mail - check
* get some crap for free - check
* become a member - check
* send your money now - check

Chicago must be the mecca for martial spammers.

Posted by: jude33

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/02/07 09:49 AM

Quote:

John

All I can say is ditto, what i wrote to Ed...

If you are serious about meeting up to train with one of our Grappling Coaches, then keep in touch.

I will be out in Chicago for a few weeks in Spring next year.. to do just that, roll and train with our Grappling rep... be a great opportunity for us to meet up.

I will be there for nearly a Month, so hopefully we can find a mutually convenient time to meet.

Look forward to meeting you.

Regards

Russell

It would be nice to see on video should it happen.
Russell.

Please dont take this the wrong way. but
Light play sparring with the boxer( who I use to enjoy watching).Any reason you didnt do a full sparr?

Grapple with our grappling coach/rep.
I watch you do padwork its done lightly.The rest I wont comment on.
I watch the pressure points.
I watch the balance points.
All done against none resisting opponents.
You say real street fights dont have an element of BJJ?

Russel. I think you might be marketing at the wrong people.

Its slowly beggining to ring of certain martial arts teachers( and they are not all the same)that I have trained with in the past.

Can I ask and if you dont wish to anwer that is fine. Have you ever done any competition/fought against some one who has been giving you resistance?

Judo? Boxing? Kick boxing?Cage fights? worked the doors?

Is so and if you have one would you care to post a video?

Before you return the favour and ask if I have ever had any of my against resistance encounters recorded on video the answer is no. There again I dont teach or proffess to have knowledge to sell.

Jude

Posted by: Russell_Stutely

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/02/07 10:28 AM

Ed

Your efforts are amazing... if only you put the same into your training.

Like I said... I will be over in 2008

Till then.. serious enquiries... you know where to find me.

This didn't go through as Jude was posting at the same time...

Jude drop me an e-mail and I will answer your questions directly.

Posted by: jude33

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/02/07 10:37 AM

Never mind Brian.

Says Jude also sitting, waiting for answers that might never appear having been lost in cyber space.

So Brian might we sing my song seen as most people like to begin with it. Might pass the time while awaiting answers?

; Hey jude, dont make it bad.
Take a sad song and make it better.
Remember to let her into your heart,
Then you can start to make it better.

Hey jude, dont be afraid.
( Judes addition) I'm not!
You were made to go out and get her.
The minute you let her under your skin,
Then you begin to make it better.

And anytime you feel the pain, hey jude, refrain,
Dont carry the world upon your shoulders.
( Judes addition) I wont,t,t,t,!
For well you know that its a fool who plays it cool
By making his world a little colder.

Hey jude, dont let me down.
( Judes addition) Thats affirmative!
You have found her, now go and get her.
Remember to let her into your heart,
Then you can start to make it better.

So let it out and let it in, hey jude, begin,
Youre waiting for someone to perform with.
And dont you know that its just you, hey jude, youll do,
The movement you need is on your shoulder.

Hey jude, dont make it bad.
( Judes addition)as I said! I dont!
Take a sad song and make it better.
Remember to let her under your skin,
Then youll begin to make it
Better better better better better better, oh.

All togher now!!!!
Na na na na na ,na na na, hey jude...

as it fades in to oblivion!!!!

Na na na na na ,na na na, hey jude...
Na na na na na ,na na na, hey jude...

The words should be getting smaller.

Posted by: Russell_Stutely

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/02/07 11:44 AM

Before I go.. Jude I took the time to answer your private e-mail and you start all this crap.. you have proven yourself to be as big a [censored] as Ed. Obviously with as much time on your hands sitting alone in your darkened computer room after School finishes.

BrianS.. I had answered.. ken is the one with the tache.. you saw the clip... Kenny is the chubby one, the one on the bottom.

I also said that if you are serious about wanting to know what John was doing different then to contact me directly.

Do you fail to read anything other than what you want to read?

You guys have really shown what complete [censored] you are...First of all you have a pop at Rosanne, no doubt because there is little fear of any retaliation because she is a lady.

You then even begin to think about training with us.. bwahaha keyboards at dawn is about all you lot could manage.

Carry on with your sad little digs at everyone that upsets your precious little thought processes

This is the problem with these types of forum.. no lifes like you lot get some credibility, or think you do, by trying to be tough guys or have a go at real MA's via your keyboards.

Pathetic losers....

bwahahahahaha

Posted by: MattJ

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/02/07 11:46 AM

This went well.

Posted by: jude33

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/02/07 12:11 PM

Russel
These are just my thoughts.
Please lighten up. I am not going to get in to a silly argument.
No need for the language and name calling doesnt register with me Russel.
You were having fun on the video you posted judging by the sound. I was having a little fun with Brian. I think your marketing a product but as I said I think on here it might( note the term might) be to the wrong people. Although I cant speak for others.

Russel if a person markets a product then surely they are going to expect some form of restistance.

I dont quite understand the reference to the woman you spoke of ? Or am I missing something here?

The Americans have wrestling in their schools upwards etc.
The British dont. That doesnt mean to say we cant train it but what you are displaying on your initial video is going to be a hard if not impossable sell. ( just my thoughts)
My guess from what I have seen from your training vidoes is it is as per usual things to expect in a striking training envirement/ eg dojo.

Any how. I cant speak for others but I hope you stick around this forum.

Jude

Posted by: jude33

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/02/07 12:34 PM

Quote:

This went well.

Hi Matt.

I suppose people are people with the usual human mind things regardless of what they do?

Jude

Posted by: BrianS

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/02/07 12:50 PM

Quote:

Before I go.. Jude I took the time to answer your private e-mail and you start all this crap.. you have proven yourself to be as big a [censored] as Ed. Obviously with as much time on your hands sitting alone in your darkened computer room after School finishes.

Namecalling! Forum rule broken!! That will cost you one demerit!!

Quote:

BrianS.. I had answered.. ken is the one with the tache.. you saw the clip... Kenny is the chubby one, the one on the bottom.

Which one are you?
What about my other questions?

Quote:

I also said that if you are serious about wanting to know what John was doing different then to contact me directly.

No thanks. Sheesh, I thought it was a simple enough question. Now I have to send it through Congress before you decide if you can tell me or not.

Quote:

Do you fail to read anything other than what you want to read?

Sometimes. I never wanted to read Moby [censored], so I haven't.

Quote:

You guys have really shown what complete [censored] you are...First of all you have a pop at Rosanne, no doubt because there is little fear of any retaliation because she is a lady.

pffftttt....

Where was the pop at Roseanne? BTW, -2 demerits!!! Namecalling!!

Quote:

You then even begin to think about training with us.. bwahaha keyboards at dawn is about all you lot could manage.

Carry on with your sad little digs at everyone that upsets your precious little thought processes

This is the problem with these types of forum.. no lifes like you lot get some credibility, or think you do, by trying to be tough guys or have a go at real MA's via your keyboards.

Pathetic losers....

bwahahahahaha

- 2 more demerits, you are going fast!!!

Before you go, please take the time to answer my direct questions.

Was the guy on the bottom resisting only by holding his legs in position?

What else could John have been doing that put him in severe pig squealing pain?

Thanks,

Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/02/07 01:21 PM

wonder what hit the nerve? perhaps the correlation between his Dragon society in Europe and the Black Dragon Society of Chicago?

I almost miss you already, Count D34dly. {sniff sob sniff}

Posted by: Raul Perez

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/02/07 03:42 PM

sorry just stumbled on this... 6th dan karate jutsu? Isn't karate jutsu a generic term for a karate style and techniques forged through combative realism?

hmm so I did some searching:

http://www.karate-jutsu.co.za/
Notice - Non-Contact, Non-competitive.... kinda defeats the purpose?

http://www.karatejutsu.org/
couldnt get much out of here except is looks like they are trying to turn shotokan around to be more effective. Dunno.

http://www.ussu.net/karatejutsu/
this looks like a good site with hard training (love that stuff). However the style is not shotokan?

http://www.shotokankaratejutsu.com/
Schanne's friend's dojo... nice commercial. Goes back to shotokan karate as part of Kara-te jutsu. However there is grappling, Muay Thai, etc. so is it MMA?

Im confused. Where did a specific style of Karate Jutsu come from?

Raul
Nidan Ryukyu Kempo (Oyata Lineage)
12 years studying and going strong.

Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/02/07 09:10 PM

and don't forget also:

http://www.karate.plus.com
http://www.karate-jutsu.no
http://karate-jutsu.co.uk/default.aspx
http://www.karate-jutsu.ru/
http://www.sakidsonthego.com/activity_detail.php?activityno=819
http://www.karate-jutsu.net/

"karate jutsu" is a made-up name to make it sound 'older' and more effective. since 'karate-do' is generally associated with modern karate, 'karate jutsu' is, by suggestion, the koryu version of karate.
hence many scrambling to associate under that tag name.

Since 'older' is perceived as better, people market with the name that sounds older.

basically, it's not a style at all. it's a marketing name.

the reason you'll never see it associated with Okinawan karate is because 'jutsu' is a budo art term. Since the handed-down okinawan family arts don't consider themselves part of the budo structure, they don't use budo terms....they tend to use okinawan and CMA terms, if any at all. of course, if you go to Okinawa as a martial tourist, you'll only see Japanese karate presented.

since most karate in Europe stems from Japanese karate (mostly Shotokan), European karate tend to have a more budo take on karate....hence the mixed termonology. kindof like seeing okinawan kobudo trained with iaido rituals.

now what you are seeing coming from Europe are ex-shotokan karate guys learning a bit of grappling/BJJ - so they create they own following telling all they got the real deal.

could be good stuff. if you have enough money to blow, check it out.

Posted by: Pillage

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/03/07 07:06 AM

For what its worth guys......I dont often post on here and will be brief. I used to train alot with Russell, John and Ken within the OCFM network so to speak. Russell and I went our separate ways about a year or so ago but in a reasonably amicable way and now do my training elsewhere with people like Steve Morris, Steve Rowe and Mick Coup so I have trained with some good quality guys.
Although maybe the clips are not to everyones taste (what is ?) I can vouch for the authenticity of Russell's techniques and validity of him as a great quality martial artist. MORE IMPORTANTLY John Andrews is one of the finest grapplers I have ever had the pleasure to roll with and his sidekick "the chubmeister" Ken is also a top notch fighter (although perhaps mentally challenged ...hence the noises!)
Some may disagree with NAP's method of selling their wares however, it works for them and that is their marketplace....good luck to them. The DVD's I have had from NAP are all first class and have a wealth of info in them.
I would agree that some people find pp's somewhat debatable, from my experience they can be used extremely effectively as Russ puts its "the poison tip" to the technique.
I would challenge any of you out there to have a roll with John and not be impressed by him as both a fighter and a gentleman. To me the true spirit of a martial artist....Ken deserves to be in a home no doubt and dont poo poo Russells works until youve trained with him, I have and he is an expert at what he does on the mat please take my word and lets not get too het up chaps. Russ has helped alot of people on their martial arts journey and dosnt deserve the brickbats thrown at him here..also do not doubt the validity of Johns career titles they are for real.
Thanks for reading

Posted by: jude33

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/03/07 07:59 AM

Hi.
My thoughts. Just some suggestions.

Thats nice. The problem is I have trained with guys like your self's before. Its not for me. One small point. It states in one of the resumes somewhere that some one does something with kata bunkia?

Ok. Then can I ask what is your/ who ever is it was? bunkia for which kata?

If anybody has a mind to discuss something other than who is the best at what? or sell something there are enough vidoes of kata on the forum that could be discussed should any of you guys wish to discuss it.

If you/ and/or any of your associates care to look on the kata thread?

Hope to see you/ yourselves on there.

Jude

Posted by: JKogas

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/03/07 08:20 AM

Quote:

now what you are seeing coming from Europe are ex-shotokan karate guys learning a bit of grappling/BJJ - so they create they own following telling all they got the real deal.

Bingo!

Posted by: BrianS

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/03/07 10:32 AM

Pillage,

Thanks for coming on board and giving us your input, politely.

Perhaps we were a bit harsh on Russ. I hope he comes back and gives us another go.

Posted by: harlan

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/03/07 10:37 AM

Uhmmm...noob question here: who is Pillage and why would an anonymous thumbs up be considered factual? Not casting aspersions...just frustrated with the whole anonymous thing in the forums recently.

(More and more I'm starting to think ebudo has it right on this name thing.)

Posted by: BrianS

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/03/07 10:44 AM

Aren't we all anonymous?

Is my user name my real name? Is yours?

We have to rely on our own feelings about who is genuine and who is not. If we are wrong, woopty- doo.

Posted by: harlan

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/03/07 10:53 AM

Nothing personal insinuated. I read the post with interest, and have no vested interest in the topic or viewpoints (being a noob). It does seem that PP topics do draw strong views, on both sides.

Posted by: BrianS

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/03/07 10:58 AM

The strong views posted here are a representative of how passionate we are about what we do,which is a good thing,but sometimes we get carried away. I think maybe we did in this instance.

Posted by: shoveldog

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/03/07 05:58 PM

I have no dog in this fight at all, but Pillage has been a member since 2005, and if you take the time to click on his profile and read his previous posts, he's not exactly "anonymous."

Posted by: Pillage

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/03/07 06:17 PM

My apologies but I believe we know each other Harlan from the Shikon forum. If not Im Anthony Pillage a full time instructor from the Uk

Regards

Posted by: harlan

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/03/07 06:43 PM

Nothing personal.

Posted by: underdog

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/03/07 09:49 PM

I would agree. In my humble opionion, the passion and attendant emotive language could drive people away and definately takes focus away from the meaningful pressure point content that should be the center of discussion.

Posted by: jude33

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/04/07 04:44 AM

Quote:

I would agree. In my humble opionion, the passion and attendant emotive language could drive people away and definately takes focus away from the meaningful pressure point content that should be the center of discussion.

Perhaps If a person seems to choose to market something in a specific way and that might seem to be untrustworthy to some people then they should expect to be asked, and people to look further and verify the product.

I think people reacted in the way I would of expected given the materials they had to work with.

Perhaps a pressure point discussion could still take place.

I would be interested in hearing about peoples experiences.

It seems a lot of people selling their arts say they use pressure points. Fine.

Then I might believe them if they agree to be (pressure) tested. Problem is how is that going to happen?

I personaly know very little about pressure points. Its like the conversation on rooting. My best guess based on what I read. But what logic does tell me is its more than likely that very strong fingers /hands are going to an asset. And the old masters more than likely spent years working on them.

Jude

Posted by: underdog

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/04/07 06:50 AM

As I'm following these discussions and just "reading only" past the point where I chose to opt out, I see a lot of things.

I think what you are getting at would be the credibility piece. There are two issues here. What is the credibility of the video clip and what is the credibility of the instructor. Both are valid considerations.

Addressing the first: When evaluating a clip, or other material, it is important to regard (1) when it was made (2) for whome (3) by whom (4) and for what purpose. All clips are limited.

If a clip is for the purpose of demonstrating a point's location and a sample way it can be exploited and showing the response without context, i.e. no counter, then that is what it is. A championship grappling match clip shows the counter, but you can't learn any specific technque or PP from it. They serve different purposes. It is quite possible, without insult, personalities, credentials whatever, that an experienced grappler could not learn anything useful from the first. However, at some point in the past, that experienced grappler had to experience the pain from those PP applications, in order to be motivated to master the counter technques. In other words, there needed to be a "reason" to learn to "resist" 100%. I would suggest that the PP application then, is a silent partner in the intermediate technique learning contract. If the grappler misses his technique, then these basic points will be applied and possibly could cost him a match if other techniques have exhausted or distracted him. For a beginner they can be dicisive. For the advanced, it is a well established habit not to ignore them, regardless of what they are called.

Regarding instructor and his credibility: stick to "principals over personalities". The reality is that there are a lot of fine instructors out there who have no worldly titles or credentials. I, for one, am a damn good teacher and proud of it. I don't teach black belts either- just general classes unless a shodan specifically asks me for help with one of his kata or something. I'm just a humble Nidan. I wouldn't take a match with any of you. You'd kill me!

Conversely, there are probably some real champions out there who can't teach anything, not even my general classes.

Personality mismatch is a real factor. I'm always telling the beginners on that forum, to interview teachers and schools and go where the chemistry is right. If you have no respect for someone or if you just don't like them, don't study with them! Move on. There are other teachers out there. If you want to disregard what someone says, fine. Who cares? In forum land, keep it to yourself! The best way to discourage someone you disagree with is to not respond. If enough good folk of like mind failed to respond, the thread would die. If you ask about someone's credentials, and they answer you, then that is the answer. Cross examining them isn't going to improve the credentials. Trash or challenge them in PM if you want. Why publicly go after each other?

Now about wrangling on the forums: it makes the place unfriendly. It can be intimidating. It turns people away. I like these forums and I want them to be supportive and friendly.

Regarding forum based advice or any advice: Take what you can use and leave the rest.

Posted by: jude33

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/04/07 12:51 PM

Hi
From my studies mainly observation based.

Pressure point used in chin na seem to have a purpose. It seems those guys spent time training there finger /hand strength.

Even the old guys.

So the first thing/ one of the things I would be looking for in an instructor is just that.

Logicaly along with the knowledge.

Jude

Posted by: underdog

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/04/07 03:06 PM

Jude33- I started a new thread to talk about Qin-Na since it is off topic here and no one would jump in this late in the thread to look for a discussion of pressure points in Qin-Na.

Posted by: JonRyley

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/21/07 02:38 AM

Hi All
First time i have wrote on this forum, so hi guys!
I actually own and host the above website and im glad someone at least found it and tried to get something out of it. So thanks raul

Yes, im originally from Shotokan and we still actively teach the Shotokan stream. But I'm constantly looking to enhance the art and make it more practical. "so turn it to be more effective is 100%" correct raul

I first got to know Russell at a BCA (British Combat Assoc) Instructors course around 10 years ago, at this time he was heading the DSI (Dragon Society) in Europe.
So it seemed that the Torite Jutsu Art was very complimentary and after 10 years I can honestly say its worked for me.
So with my original art being Shotokan and my desire to learn new complimentary arts, I decided to use the KarateJutsu name, for me this translates to "Empty Hand Applications" which is what we do.
What I’m not trying to do is create a new system, but lets just say I’m trying to learn and absorb other arts in order to compliment my toolset to enable me to become a more effective martial artist and teacher.

For the record, I also train in Kali and BJJ but this is for personal enjoyment and learning and is just another building block on the road of my MA Life.

I would not question Russell’s integrity, honesty and quality as a Martial Artist or Person.
He is a friend of mine and always will be.

Posted by: jude33

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/21/07 12:48 PM

Quote:

.
I would not question Russell’s integrity, honesty and quality as a Martial Artist or Person.
He is a friend of mine and always will be.

My humble thoughts.

Thats nice. Except judging from the videos I would doubt the ability.

But there again I am not a 6th dan. I am still a student.
One smallpoint, If I were advertising myself as a teacher of a fighting art seminar and I were a 6th dan and I got into the ring with a pro boxer for some strange reason I would have fought.

There used to be a gym/ night club called the 007 in Blackpool. Can I ask if you have ever heard of it?
Well at one time every weekend I use to train there. Sparred with some tasty pro boxers. Boxers that fought to earn money.

So when I see people on the pads and messing about with pro
boxers I think what can he teach.

Answer nothing. I see trad martial arts guys in their 50/60/70s who could teach me more than your guys seem to show what you teach on your videos.

I can learn more about the theory behind the fighting arts and be guided to the right physical training on this forum from people with expereince than attending the seminars as seen on the videos put forward.

If I wanted people just to see me with the boxer I wouldnt have got in the ring. No disrespect to the boxer. He is good.

If you guys do karate jutsu then could I see a video of your fighting application to your katas?

Jude

Posted by: JonRyley

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/22/07 01:39 AM

Jude, thanks for your reply.

I'm apart time instructor of the martial arts and have been training none stop for 25 years.
I personally dont have any videos of kata bunkai with karate justu, this is something I have never felt a need to do.
However this is russells main revenue stream and he does have a selection of videos on kata bunkai, ranging from the heian katas to the bassai's. Maybe ask him, i'm sure he would send you a clip or 2.

If you are close to blackpool (which im assuming, as you boxed at the 007) i'm around 45 mins away, maybe you drop by and I will show you the fighting applications we use in relation to the kata.

I also have Herol Graham performing a seminar at my place on the 22nd Dec, maybe you'd like to come down to that and actually see what we do. Then you would see us learning from an expert and not just teaching or telling what we do.

Like you, I also see myself as a student of the martial arts, I suppose allways have and allways will do.

Best Wishes

Posted by: jude33

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/22/07 02:57 AM

Quote:

I also have Herol Graham performing a seminar at my place on the 22nd Dec, maybe you'd like to come down to that and actually see what we do. Then you would see us learning from an expert and not just teaching or telling what we do.

Like you, I also see myself as a student of the martial arts, I suppose allways have and allways will do.

Best Wishes

Hi

You could PM me your address.
Can I ask what are you charging for the seminar and what is Herol covering?
Also If you could ask Russel to pm me with his bunkia?
and to which kata?

Thanks

Jude

Posted by: JonRyley

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/22/07 03:22 AM

Hi
Cost of the seminar is £30.
Herol will be covering;

Stance
Movement
Physical Conditioning and training
Movement and Flow
Combinations and feeds
Skipping

Each person will get the chance to work 1 on 1 with Herol

PM to you with the address sent.
PM sent to russell with request for bunkai clip
Cheers
Jon

Posted by: jude33

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/22/07 03:43 AM

Quote:

Hi

PM to you with the address sent.
PM sent to russell with request for bunkai clip
Cheers
Jon

I havent got a PM yet.
I would realy like to see russels bunkia.
How is your group connected with BCA ?

Thanks

Jude

Posted by: JonRyley

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/22/07 04:31 AM

Hi Jude
I sent to PM to russell, he is in italy at his training camp this week, so he will get back to you next week.
ill resend the PM to you in a minute with the address.

My club has been registered with the BCA since 93.
I'm a level 3 coach with the BCA which is the top level, and my last grade (5th Dan) was awarded by Peter Consterdine.
Also all of my instructors in Mawdesley are also Level 1 instructors with the BCA.

Cheers
Jon

Posted by: JonRyley

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/22/07 05:00 AM

tried to send you a PM it appears to send then it dosnt appear in the sent messages.
you should be able to get the location from the karatejutsu site under the about us KJA Mawdesley location

Posted by: Gavin

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/22/07 08:36 AM

Jude,

If you get the chance go on Herol's course do. He is an absolute blast to train with. Also if you get a chance to pop down and train with Jon, do so...he's a top bloke! Make sure he shows you how to tear the skin off someones face...god I can still feel the burning!

Jon - Ironically I'm wearing hte MBKAM T-shirt today from Cyrpus that has a finger sized rip in it from when you used it to strangle me with! Was the only thing I had ironed to wear!

Posted by: Bossman

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/22/07 08:46 AM

Dressed in your usual sartorial elegance then Gav?

Posted by: Gavin

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/22/07 09:13 AM

Of course Boss, you know me, always making a fashion statement!

*And here is Gavin sporting this seasons hot new look...post-asphyxiationwear*

Posted by: JonRyley

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/22/07 03:06 PM

Gavin Hi
Times must be tuff in Southend, only 1 t-shirt ready to wear!! and an MBKAM one at that
I'll tell you what send me your address in a PM and ill send you a couple of BCA T-Shirts on the house!

In Size Racing Snake Medium???

Hopefully see you soon
Cheers
Jon

Posted by: Gavin

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/22/07 03:37 PM

Definately mate...it's been too long! Oh, and I'm a racing snake LARGE now, I've gained 3lbs (the girlfriends been feeding me up!)

Posted by: JonRyley

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 11/22/07 04:28 PM

hi gav
well you have my email drop me a line with the address and the t shirts are on there way to essex.
cheers
Jon

Posted by: MatsFondelius

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 01/18/08 03:24 AM

Hi!

Having seen some of the PP "stuff" in Grappling as well as in many MA "Arts/styles" in action - I'd say that the USE of PP's in ANY fight or REAL Self Defense situation is the final edge added to your advantage!

However, we ALL have a choice in ALL aspects of our lives ..!

IF you never SERIOUSLY tried to ADD PP's to your "ARSENAL" I recomend you ALL to do so - then "judge" what will be REVEALED for you...

Kind regards,

Mats Fondelius "PP's Fighter & Healer"

Posted by: underdog

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 01/18/08 10:12 AM

Hello Mats! You found it! I thought I was going to look this up and mail you the link. Nice to have you here.

Hello PP forum friends. Let me introduce Mats. Great guy, well rounded, dedicated martial artist student of Russell Stutely. He will be a great addition to this forum.

Posted by: BrianS

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 01/18/08 06:51 PM

Quote:

Hi!

Having seen some of the PP "stuff" in Grappling as well as in many MA "Arts/styles" in action - I'd say that the USE of PP's in ANY fight or REAL Self Defense situation is the final edge added to your advantage!

However, we ALL have a choice in ALL aspects of our lives ..!

IF you never SERIOUSLY tried to ADD PP's to your "ARSENAL" I recomend you ALL to do so - then "judge" what will be REVEALED for you...

Kind regards,

Mats Fondelius "PP's Fighter & Healer"

I AGREE!!!! WELCOME MATS!!!!

So glad you made your wonderful way here!! It's a joyous occasion!!!

Do you spar using pressure points?

I find it difficult to incorporate alot of pressure point contact into my sparring when I'm getting hit, plus the gloves do hinder.

Can you link the pp work in grappling for us?

I'd love to see it!!

It's great to have you aboard our wonderful forum!!

I hope you have a happy day and a blessed weekend!!!

Posted by: jude33

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 01/18/08 07:00 PM

Quote:

Hi!

Having seen some of the PP "stuff" in Grappling as well as in many MA "Arts/styles" in action - I'd say that the USE of PP's in ANY fight or REAL Self Defense situation is the final edge added to your advantage!

However, we ALL have a choice in ALL aspects of our lives ..!

IF you never SERIOUSLY tried to ADD PP's to your "ARSENAL" I recomend you ALL to do so - then "judge" what will be REVEALED for you...

Kind regards,

Mats Fondelius "PP's Fighter & Healer"

Need these to read with!!

The colours sort of make it hard to read.
They are very nice but would there be any chance of using the black print?.

Just a polite request.

Jude.

Looking at a wall to try and re-focus the eyes.

Posted by: MattJ

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 01/18/08 07:37 PM

LOL @ Brian.

Posted by: MatsFondelius

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 01/18/08 10:33 PM

Thanks, to you ALL for your Warm Welcome to the site - Very Much Appreciated!!!

I will post this in "B&W" for you Jude ..!

Sorry, about all the "neon" and gadgets on my post but as a "Newbie" - I kind of got "carried away" with all the NEW opportunities at this site...

Here's the post again in Black & White for you:

Quote:

Hi!

Having seen some of the PP "stuff" in Grappling as well as in many MA "Arts/styles" in action - I'd say that the USE of PP's in ANY fight or REAL Self Defense situation is the final edge added to your advantage!

However, we ALL have a choice in ALL aspects of our lives ..!

IF you never SERIOUSLY tried to ADD PP's to your " ARSENAL " I recomend you ALL to do so - then "judge" what will be REVEALED for you...

Kind regards,

Mats Fondelius "PP's Fighter & Healer"

To BrianS:
- Yes, we "sparr" using PP's as realistic as it's possible; with headgear-helmets and much more protection.
Since we're using a "modified" type of waveform that increases your blows with at least 200-300% - we only use max 30% power against the body and no more than a ~ 3% to the head that will KO anyone hitting a PP anyway...
Have a look at the realistic "sports-side" of the OCFM Self Defense approach at :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01_kQd8pOus

I will give you some "Nice & Fun" PP-grappling clips from MartialArtsYouTube :

http://www.martialartsyoutube.com/view_v...amp;category=tf

However, you can get(buy..!)the whole DVD's about PP Grappling through me if you wish...

Other comments:
- Yes, the accuracy will be "suffering" from using gloves..
- However, the blows we use will be Highly Effective EVEN With Gloves on - IF you're strikes are Penetrating, Cover the PP area of your choice and are striked using the Correct Angle..!

Once again - Thanks & Kind regards to you All!!!

Mats Fondelius

Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 01/19/08 01:33 AM

Posted by: shoshinkan

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 01/19/08 03:29 AM

LOL Ed,

that is funny

Posted by: BrianS

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 01/21/08 07:31 PM

I don't know who gave you a warm welcome,but it wasn't me.

You obviously have an agenda to push here. I don't like it.

HAPPY HAPPY JOY JOY!!!!

Posted by: kyushoperson

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 01/22/08 06:58 AM

Hi
Here's Russell in the mid 1990's with only a 1st Dan to his name, before he learned any pressure points or knew what a waveform was.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9qy-UzMNlaI

Here he is a few years later with all these credentials?

OCFM International Coach
6th Dan OCFM
Columnist for the UK's leading Martial Arts Magazines - Martial Arts Illustrated, Combat, Trad Karate
Featured in Mens Health, Mens Fitness, EVO, Autocar, Car and all over the Web
Europe's leading authority on Pressure Points in the Martial Arts.

And a Master ship from who knows where?

Perhaps he can tell us.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ymgdRXOgi4A

Do you think he's better or worse for all the spin and new age nonesense?

lol I cant tell.

Which pressure points does he use on herol?

where is his waveform power?

He looks scared to me lol

tc

HS

Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 01/22/08 07:52 AM

not sure. but it does seem that the 'waveform' is a renamed technique. not to be confused with TKD's waveform (the bouncing up and down). It seems this 'waveform' is a renamed double-hip body mechanic using impact training as developed thru Shukokai as hedkikr mentioned. It's good stuff, but why rename it. Everyone needs to make a living, I realize that, but....

Posted by: jude33

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 01/22/08 08:15 AM

Quote:

Hi
where is his waveform power?

He looks scared to me lol

tc

HS

I dont know, but that is surely up to him.

I see things like this. Anybody is allowed to market a product. They are allowed to argue their own case.
If I choose to believe it or not is a different matter.

It might be worth your while addressing those points to Russel or someone who knows Russel.

Jude

Posted by: kyushoperson

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 01/22/08 11:47 AM

Hi

I thought russell came on here so it was addressed to him or others on here who speak for him?

It was a rhetorical question is that not obvious?

He doesnt use either pp's or the waveform on this clip, or is this another of his comical ones like the pps that dont work?

He says on his site with his method you can punch like heavyweight with his method, it seems to fall short here on herol who was only a middleweight?

I am allowed to ask Q's on here arent I?

hs

Posted by: jude33

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 01/22/08 12:31 PM

Hi
I am not to sure if you are asking Brian or myself the questions.
So if you were asking me then these are my thoughts.

Quote:

Hi
I thought russell came on here so it was addressed to him or others on here who speak for him?

I am not sure if he still does come on here.

Quote:

It was a rhetorical question is that not obvious?

Rhetorical questions encourage the listener to reflect on what is implied.
Not to sure.

He doesnt use either pp's or the waveform on this clip, or is this another of his comical ones like the pps that dont work?

Cant say.

He says on his site with his method you can punch like heavyweight with his method, it seems to fall short here on herol who was only a middleweight?

The video I saw of him with Herol in the ring was of them playing around. I did comment about it but it seems they werent meant to be sparring.

If he states with his method a person can end up punching like a heavyweight then I suppose it would depend on which heavyweight he meant.I think the statemeant has to many variables.
I would however be interested in what he or others undestand as wave form. I understand Ed has some experience
with double hip movement.

Jude

Posted by: Ed_Morris

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 01/22/08 02:47 PM

only trained for a few years in Kimura-Shukokai in the late 80's when Kimura sensei was living in NJ. 'double-hip' actually goes back and was developed by his sensei, Master Tani (who was a student of Mabuni Kenwa).

it's a power generation method optimized for medium to long-range contact sparring. the training method is impact training with materials and method that was pioneered by Kimura.

Posted by: BrianS

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 01/23/08 02:06 AM

Quote:

Hi

I thought russell came on here so it was addressed to him or others on here who speak for him?
Quote:

He has been here and I'm sure he or his other kronies trying to sell his stuff will be back sooner or later.

[quote}It was a rhetorical question is that not obvious?

ummmm...no?

Quote:

He doesnt use either pp's or the waveform on this clip, or is this another of his comical ones like the pps that dont work?

He says on his site with his method you can punch like heavyweight with his method, it seems to fall short here on herol who was only a middleweight?

Claims that sell? I know heavyweights that can't hit very hard,so it's hard to disprove, isn't it?

Quote:

I am allowed to ask Q's on here arent I?

hs

Absofrigginlutely!!!

BTW, who are you?

Posted by: kyushoperson

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 01/23/08 06:20 AM

Hi

Russell says what he does is different from the double hip.

These were the only examples of him actually doing something akin to 'sparring' I
could find the rest of his clips are him hitting or pushing a much smaller guy who stands in front of him and lets him.

In this sparring clip he uses neither pressure points nor the waveform,that was my whole point.

The fact he obviously isnt using them is why i thought youd realise they were rhetorical questions?

tc

HS

Posted by: kyushoperson

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 01/24/08 06:01 AM

Quote:

Hi
I am not to sure if you are asking Brian or myself the questions.
So if you were asking me then these are my thoughts.
Quote:

Hi
I thought russell came on here so it was addressed to him or others on here who speak for him?

I am not sure if he still does come on here.
Quote:

It was a rhetorical question is that not obvious?

Rhetorical questions encourage the listener to reflect on what is implied.
Not to sure.

He doesnt use either pp's or the waveform on this clip, or is this another of his comical ones like the pps that dont work?

Cant say.

He says on his site with his method you can punch like heavyweight with his method, it seems to fall short here on herol who was only a middleweight?

Hi jude

Hes not sparring you say? him and herol are in a ring with gloves on hitting each other, what do you call that?

So you're saying when he says you can hit like a heavyweight, he means one who hits really weakly even softer than a middleweight?

He really should make that more clear. I've never seen a heavyweight who couldnt beat a middle weight lol

tc

HS

Posted by: jude33

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 01/24/08 07:03 AM

Quote:

Hi jude

Hes not sparring you say? him and herol are in a ring with gloves on hitting each other, what do you call that?

Title of video
Herol Graham and Russell play spar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymgdRXOgi4A

Is this the video you are refering to? If it is then I see it as they are playing around.

Sparring
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doci...h&plindex=0

These two are not playing around
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doci...h&plindex=0

Quote:

So you're saying when he says you can hit like a heavyweight, he means one who hits really weakly even softer than a middleweight?

Which heavyweight? lets say take a guy who had just started boxing and is say 18 stone mostly fat and he doesnt punch to good. Yet.
Compare that to a say a hyperthetical hard hitting pro middleweight.
This guy can use his punching power against a guy who is moving forward. He is more accurate.
Can you see the difference?

If whoever says using his methods a person could hit like a heavyweight and you find that strange then I would suggest e-mail whoever and ask him what does he mean?
You could always post the reply on here if you wish.
Better still perhaps attend one of his seminars and post your findings on here.

Quote:

He really should make that more clear. I've never seen a heavyweight who couldnt beat a middle weight lol

Which heavy weight and which middleweight?
I find generalising isnt the best thing to do in boxing/striking/grappling. Do you think?

Jude

Posted by: kyushoperson

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 01/24/08 12:23 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Hi jude

Hes not sparring you say? him and herol are in a ring with gloves on hitting each other, what do you call that?

Title of video
Herol Graham and Russell play spar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymgdRXOgi4A

Is this the video you are refering to? If it is then I see it as they are playing around.

Sparring
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doci...h&plindex=0

These two are not playing around
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doci...h&plindex=0

Quote:

So you're saying when he says you can hit like a heavyweight, he means one who hits really weakly even softer than a middleweight?

Which heavyweight? lets say take a guy who had just started boxing and is say 18 stone mostly fat and he doesnt punch to good. Yet.

'oh right so this is what you think he means when he says punch like a heavyweight i see a fat overweight beginner. lol'

Compare that to a say a hyperthetical hard hitting pro middleweight.
This guy can use his punching power against a guy who is moving forward. He is more accurate.
Can you see the difference?

If whoever says using his methods a person could hit like a heavyweight and you find that strange then I would suggest e-mail whoever and ask him what does he mean?
You could always post the reply on here if you wish.
Better still perhaps attend one of his seminars and post your findings on here.

'I've done both in the past on his seminar we spent all the time doing a jujitsu lock as i remember and some nonesense about tcm which he now doesnt believe in lol'

Quote:

He really should make that more clear. I've never seen a heavyweight who couldnt beat a middle weight lol

Which heavy weight and which middleweight?
I find generalising isnt the best thing to do in boxing/striking/grappling. Do you think?

'Well you just did that with your hyperthetical middleweight. you need to be consistent in your arguments or else you look stupid lol'

Jude

Posted by: jude33

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 01/24/08 12:51 PM

I can hardly understand a word you have written.

What a complete mess.

Just one thing. If you have a problem with Russell take it up with him. If from what I can gather you attended a seminar and didnt like it then why didint you tell him?

Better still seen as he is the one your doubting ask him to sparr with you then post your results except this time
make things clearer so people can read it.

Or even better perhaps (your choice) video it.

Jude

Posted by: Vennificus

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 01/24/08 07:47 PM

this is why dim mak scares me, but its ok,
pressure points don't exist
neither does my spoon apparently...damn bald kid, NOW how am I supposed to eat my cereal?

Posted by: jude33

Re: Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link - 01/24/08 10:04 PM

Quote:

this is why dim mak scares me, but its ok,
pressure points don't exist
neither does my spoon apparently...damn bald kid, NOW how am I supposed to eat my cereal?

Your talking in riddles.

I would like to repeat myself in case you had difficulty with the last post(s)

If you think pressure point dont exist then you might want to argue that point with someone who feels strongly that they do.

If you dont think a middle weight can hit as hard as a heavyweight can I suggest go and find a boxing gym and sparr with a few. If you can have have someone record it on video. Then post it. That might be interesting.

If you doubt Russels ability then take that it up with Russel. If you attended a seminar and you didnt like it shouldnt you have at least looked at what was on offer before you attended?

It states on your resume your a pacifist? Your webpage seems to be for art. One thing I would like to ask is why would someone claiming to be a pacifist want to know if a someone could be trained to hit like a heavyweight?
Or did you believe that attending a seminar on pressure points was the answer?

Jude

Sorry Russell Sir- I had to copy this link