Pressure points on hand

Posted by: gojuwarrior1

Pressure points on hand - 01/15/07 07:52 AM

Hey all, i was in a situation last night were we had to restrain a patient and put him in restrants. Well I got him to comply with my demands quite efficently but after we got him restraned we had to take off his watch. He had his fist balled tightly and this is were my problem was, is there any points that will make the hand open or relax? I tried rubbing his tricep but that only worked when i had keep him down so i tried it to see if it would open his hand but it didnt. Help a hard headed karateka with some pressure point knowlege, Thanks
Posted by: underdog

Re: Pressure points on hand - 01/15/07 11:23 AM

That is a very good question. I've been there hundreds of time. The limiting factor is that you can't do any harm. I'm in health care (psychiatry) Are you in health care or law enforcement? Not being able to do any harm really makes this difficult. Here are some things I have tried from time to time. NOTHING I have tried works all the time or with any great consistancy in this circumstance. There is a lot of artistry. Do please post some of your ideas and maybe readers can add.

1) Attack a point on the opposite arm like the back of the elbow TW 11 and 12 and grab the hand you want to get when you get the cross extensor reflex.

2) Finger locks both the hyperextension type and the compression type. Be super careful about fracture.

3) TW 3 strike as supposed to be helpful but with this kind of resistance, and lack of desire to harm on our part, I find it overrated.

4) LI 5 or 6 rubbed with knuckles is truly annoying and might help.

6) Elbow rub front to back on Lv 13 or any other convenient torso point that will cause the opening up posture.

7) Lv 9 on the opposite quadrant leg. It takes the energy out of the hand you are manipulating. It will buy you a tempo to get the hand. Use it quickly.

I think the best ones are the ones where you don't go strength against strength with the hand. That is where his energy is and that is where he is braced for more pain than you are willing to inflict. I like the opposite quadrant ones best.
Posted by: secretninja

Re: Pressure points on hand - 01/15/07 03:22 PM

hey, there are two pressur points around the radius bone on the wrist grab the wrist horizaltallly with your thumb on the same side of the wrist as his thumb and your index finger the side of his little finger,just above to raduis and squeeze , the thumb side releases the wrist and the little finger side releases the fist and its very hard to resist once you no how to apply it there is also about 4 heart points in the hand that, if three are strikes medium solidly with in about 30 seconds of each other will produce a 3 point knock out for about 15 - 30 seconds, if you want more info on how to apply these points, just ask !

thank you
Posted by: JKogas

Re: Pressure points on hand - 01/15/07 05:44 PM

Sure, choke him the F#&K out and take his watch off, his wallet and damned near anything else.

Unconsciousness works really well in terms of overall compliance.



-John
Posted by: wristtwister

Re: Pressure points on hand - 01/15/07 06:46 PM

Put your fingertips on his fingertips and then squeeze his fist making it get tighter and tighter... while you're going the wrong way with them, you'll find somebody really wants to open their hand when the pressure comes. If they really resist, go to just one finger and squeeze it. Trust me, they will want to open their hand... It really doesn't matter which finger you squeeze, it'll work fine on any of them...

Posted by: gojuwarrior1

Re: Pressure points on hand - 01/16/07 09:11 AM

That would be the easy part John, but i work in a Mental health unit and we must use the least amount of force possible. Thanks for the info guys ....now just to figure all them points out .
Posted by: underdog

Re: Pressure points on hand - 01/16/07 11:16 AM

Oh cool. That's my thing too. Mental health. I understand perfectly the restrictions. That is why I've learned to go away from the hand. The patient is willing to resist to near fracture point there. Get him someplace else- opposite quadrant. Now the REALLY tricky thing about this, after trying to train mental health workers in physical applications for many years, is to get your TEAM to PRACTICE!!! They need to know on a signal, that when you are rubbing or getting something somewhere else, to GET THE HAND!!!

We actually practiced some bizzare other alternative techniqes that you might want to consider. On the night or evening shift, for example, have someone shut the lights suddenly and for no apparent reason. The natural response is to open hands, drop them by the waist, and look around to see what is going on. GRAB THE WRIST THEN!!!

Another cool trick is to take the silly med cup from the nurse, and fling it at the face of the patient. It will do no harm but it compels the patient to open his hands to protect his face. In the grand scheme of things, it is totally harmless and pretty effective. I realize it isn't pressure points, but pressure points on the HAND may not get what you want. You have to be more sneaky than that. IMHO
Posted by: Midnightcrawler

Re: Pressure points on hand - 02/04/07 07:27 PM

Quote:

Hey all, i was in a situation last night were we had to restrain a patient and put him in restrants. Well I got him to comply with my demands quite efficently but after we got him restraned we had to take off his watch. He had his fist balled tightly and this is were my problem was, is there any points that will make the hand open or relax? I tried rubbing his tricep but that only worked when i had keep him down so i tried it to see if it would open his hand but it didnt. Help a hard headed karateka with some pressure point knowlege, Thanks




Why the need to remove their watch? As you've already said you have them restrained. What are they going to do swallow the watch, or is there a regulation on 'time restraint' and your afraid they can time you and if you go over that time then they might sue you?

MC.
Posted by: underdog

Re: Pressure points on hand - 02/05/07 08:42 AM

The watch causes skin abrasions under the restraints and unnecessary pain, and the restraints will naturally gravitate to exactly the same point on the wrist that is comfortable for the watch. So, for protection of skin integrity and patient comfort, it must come off. This would be true even in the NHS where tax payers pay the bill.

I don't know why you want to assume that you alone are the savior of mental health clients. We, in the business, are actually qualified and well intentioned. Most shifts, there is no violence and we can feel really good about helping the least in the kingdom.

This is a martial arts forum and so the relevant stories, and the situations around which WE ask our collegues around the world for support, are the dangerous episodes because this kind of interaction doesn't come easily for most of us.

Since tone of voice and physical presentation are missing in written forum posts, I really can't figure out where you are coming from and what is your intent. Until I feel I understand this, if you wish to ask challenging questions, please send them to me in PM and off the forum where they can have a destructive influence.
Posted by: Midnightcrawler

Re: Pressure points on hand - 02/05/07 11:39 AM

Imagine that it is usually said in a lighthearted fashion and you'll not be wrong?

I do however 'feel' for these patients. Why? Well I kind of don't consider the application of pain and being tied up (restraint) to be treatment. Punishment yes, but not treatment. There again I've not worked in that environment and have not had any relatives or freinds encarserated for treatment. So what do I know? I'm just looking at it from Joe Publics point of view. I think I'm right in saying that patients have rights, don't they?

MC.
Posted by: MattJ

Re: Pressure points on hand - 02/05/07 01:02 PM

MC -

You are admittedly uninformed in regards to dealing with MH patients. Underdog has clearly stated that patients DO have rights, many times. Please stop using this forum to push your agenda, and stay on topic. Further off-topic posts will be deleted.
Posted by: underdog

Re: Pressure points on hand - 02/05/07 06:29 PM

Fighting arts offers forum space for the discussion of martial techniques. It is not a public policy forum. This in particular, is the pressure point forum. No public health policy discussions will be allowed on this forum. On the other hand, if you are an LEO, health care worker, teacher in a special needs setting or other care provider in a setting where there is a prevailing mission of care and to do no harm, and you have physical encounters with clients, then your special interest concerns are welcome here. I have no official stance on anyone's public health, social, cultural, psychiatric, moral opinion. That is truly your own business. Please discuss it elsewhere. This forum will help people work through finding pressure point solutions to physical encounter problems.
Posted by: gojuwarrior1

Re: Pressure points on hand - 02/08/07 10:22 PM

Whoa didnt relize my thread got out of hand....Pun Intended . Thankx underdog for the info i will definatly put some of it past my co workers, Oss
Posted by: underdog

Re: Pressure points on hand - 02/09/07 07:23 AM

It appears we are back on track. Thanks for your patience. Let me know how things are received by your coworkers/team. I checked back, and we did discuss the good 'ol TW3 and wrist points and finger locks also. You have some good choices. Please post back because that is how we learn and know how to help each other. When you post back, open a new thread. I think I want this one to die a natural death. Call it pressure points in health care or whatever else strikes you want.
Posted by: sportsinjury

Re: Pressure points on hand - 02/09/07 11:49 PM

above the index finger is a bone called the 2nd metacarpal - if you dig your thumb just on the thumb-side of that bone there is a pressure point there that will cause the hand to open... the trick is not to dig into the muscle in the 'web' of the hand, but rather dig in and then hook toward the palm-side of the 2nd metacarpal -- make a fist with one hand and then try it with the thumb of the other

the usual application is to break the grip of someone when they have their arms wrapped around your waist, so it helps to come from "above" the clenched fist

if your thumb is not strong enough, use the blunt end of a pen
---

there is also the trick of compressing the tip of thumb -- when you make a fist your thumb flexes -- just follow that natural curl but really push the thumb into HYPER-flexion.

good luck
Posted by: underdog

Re: Pressure points on hand - 02/10/07 07:11 AM

Ah nice! That point is called LI 3. I've never used it for this purpose. You can bet that I shall take it to the mat this week though and give it a try. Thanks.

As I work it on myself from your instructions, I can see that hooking around to the palm side IS important and also from your instructions, if you are on LI 4, that won't work for this purpose. I like it.
Posted by: JimmySmith

Re: Pressure points on hand - 04/24/07 10:10 PM

Actually there shouldn't be any need for pressure points to open the hand- If you bend the wrist forward the tendons in the fingers are stretched to the point where the fingers should either open automatically or open with then very little force (akin to taking candy from a baby). This also will not injure or break anything.
Posted by: underdog

Re: Pressure points on hand - 04/25/07 09:18 AM

What if you are using pressure points to bend the wrist?
Posted by: JimmySmith

Re: Pressure points on hand - 04/26/07 12:03 AM

certainly adds some more possibilities- Obviously can ease the effort needed to bend the wrist if the patient is particularly strong.
Posted by: underdog

Re: Pressure points on hand - 04/26/07 10:14 AM

If you work in health care like an EMT or something, or in psychiatry like me, Jim Greenwood has a DVD with Kyusho applications for pressure points that come up in an EMT situation that are adaptable for other health care providers. You can get it via the Kyusho.com web site. There is a lot of good material there for those of us who have a duty to do no harm.
Posted by: gojuwarrior1

Re: Pressure points on hand - 04/26/07 06:04 PM

Hum, That seems like its worth checking out.